Boalt 1Ls taking questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
sarahh
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby sarahh » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:34 pm

Thanks for the info everyone.

005618502
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby 005618502 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:14 pm

gymboree wrote:Our faculty ratio is fantastic (see Shaggier's info above), our new addition looks amazing, and the people who decide to come to Boalt understand they're coming to a state school, not a country club. Dean Edley likes to joke that Boalt used to be a publicly funded school, now it's a publicly encouraged school. The budget used to be 80% funded by the state and it's now at 25%. The fact that we have a huge addition and are adding faculty at a time when other Berkeley graduate departments are freezing hiring and laying off admin speaks volumes about how effective Boalt leadership and alumni are at fundraising. They're not slowing down. They have so many alumni events - there's another one this weekend. They bring alumni to the school to show them the building progress, solicit more financial support, and drag skads of students through these receptions for networking. I see the school working very hard to make sure we're successful on all fronts.

So, has the school been affected? Absolutely - but it's been in terms of budget concerns. I wouldn't want to be Dean Edley, that's for sure. Are we being shielded from that struggle as much as possible? In my opinion, yes.

I know there are others who are upset about the tuition. But I agree with Shaggier. I came here understanding what the tuition was, saw it in line with peer schools (which are the same schools we were all deciding between -- the whole T14). It's all the same so what's the big deal, I say. But everyone knows I'm a glass half full kind of person.



Thats true, i do think Boalt is definitely still worth sticker.

M.M.
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby M.M. » Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:48 pm

Are tuition costs rising at Berkeley?

I know little about it, other than the fact that my family lives closer to Berkley than most other schools I'm looking to attend and the low tuition is a big plus, for me.

005618502
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby 005618502 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:53 pm

M.M. wrote:Are tuition costs rising at Berkeley?

I know little about it, other than the fact that my family lives closer to Berkley than most other schools I'm looking to attend and the low tuition is a big plus, for me.


Haha rising? more like skyrocketing

M.M.
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby M.M. » Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:07 pm

jt1341 wrote:
M.M. wrote:Are tuition costs rising at Berkeley?

I know little about it, other than the fact that my family lives closer to Berkley than most other schools I'm looking to attend and the low tuition is a big plus, for me.


Haha rising? more like skyrocketing


Dang, figures since California is about to fall off into the Pacific :(

That's unfortunate. T'was one of my top choices due in (large) part to that.

005618502
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby 005618502 » Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:41 pm

M.M. wrote:
jt1341 wrote:
M.M. wrote:Are tuition costs rising at Berkeley?

I know little about it, other than the fact that my family lives closer to Berkley than most other schools I'm looking to attend and the low tuition is a big plus, for me.


Haha rising? more like skyrocketing


Dang, figures since California is about to fall off into the Pacific :(

That's unfortunate. T'was one of my top choices due in (large) part to that.


Its very bad. Its going to continue to rise more then other publics too, so be careful

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im_blue
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby im_blue » Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:50 am

M.M. wrote:Are tuition costs rising at Berkeley?

I know little about it, other than the fact that my family lives closer to Berkley than most other schools I'm looking to attend and the low tuition is a big plus, for me.

Berkeley has the highest T14 (non-resident) cost of attendance in 2010-11. Even for residents, tuition is predicted to rise by 17% over the next 2 years and match or exceed the most expensive private law schools.

Berkeley: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/6943.htm $74,047.50
Columbia: http://www.law.columbia.edu/jd_applican ... ns/tuition $74,000
Stanford: http://www.law.stanford.edu/program/tuition/jd/ $71,535
Northwestern: http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissi ... getJD.html $71,285
NYU: http://www.law.nyu.edu/financialaid/bud ... /index.htm $70,886
Yale: http://www.law.yale.edu/admissions/costs.htm $70,450
Harvard: http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/ ... udget.html $70,100
Cornell: http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/admiss ... penses.cfm $69,750
Penn: http://www.law.upenn.edu/prospective/jd/financing.html $68,150
Chicago: http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospective ... aid/budget $68,010
Georgetown: http://www.law.georgetown.edu/finaid/fo ... 010-11.pdf $68,000
Virginia: http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/prospe ... uition.htm $67,700
Duke: http://www.law.duke.edu/admis/tuition $66,938
Michigan: --LinkRemoved-- $65,350

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gymboree
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby gymboree » Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:21 am

What these guys aren't telling you is that unlike many other states, CA gives you resident status for years 2 and 3. So what may be on the top of the list for year 1, goes down to the bottom of the list in years 2 and 3.
YEAR 1:
Berkeley: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/6943.htm $74,047.50
Columbia: http://www.law.columbia.edu/jd_applican ... ns/tuition $74,000
Stanford: http://www.law.stanford.edu/program/tuition/jd/ $71,535
Northwestern: http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissi ... getJD.html $71,285
NYU: --LinkRemoved-- ... /index.htm $70,886
Yale: http://www.law.yale.edu/admissions/costs.htm $70,450
Harvard: http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/ ... udget.html $70,100
Cornell: --LinkRemoved-- ... penses.cfm $69,750
Penn: http://www.law.upenn.edu/prospective/jd/financing.html $68,150
Chicago: http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospective ... aid/budget $68,010
Georgetown: http://www.law.georgetown.edu/finaid/fo ... 010-11.pdf $68,000
Virginia: --LinkRemoved-- ... uition.htm $67,700
Duke: http://www.law.duke.edu/admis/tuition $66,938
Michigan: --LinkRemoved-- ... budget.pdf $65,350

YEARS 2 & 3:
Columbia: http://www.law.columbia.edu/jd_applican ... ns/tuition $74,000
Stanford: http://www.law.stanford.edu/program/tuition/jd/ $71,535
Northwestern: http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissi ... getJD.html $71,285
NYU: --LinkRemoved-- ... /index.htm $70,886
Yale: http://www.law.yale.edu/admissions/costs.htm $70,450
Harvard: http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/ ... udget.html $70,100
Cornell: --LinkRemoved-- ... penses.cfm $69,750
Penn: http://www.law.upenn.edu/prospective/jd/financing.html $68,150
Chicago: http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospective ... aid/budget $68,010
Georgetown: http://www.law.georgetown.edu/finaid/fo ... 010-11.pdf $68,000
Virginia: --LinkRemoved-- ... uition.htm $67,700
Duke: http://www.law.duke.edu/admis/tuition $66,938
Berkeley: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/6943.htm $66,047.50
Michigan: --LinkRemoved-- ... budget.pdf $65,350

This settles down to a very average T14 cost.

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worldtraveler
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby worldtraveler » Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:58 am

im_blue wrote:
M.M. wrote:Are tuition costs rising at Berkeley?

I know little about it, other than the fact that my family lives closer to Berkley than most other schools I'm looking to attend and the low tuition is a big plus, for me.

Berkeley has the highest T14 (non-resident) cost of attendance in 2010-11. Even for residents, tuition is predicted to rise by 17% over the next 2 years and match or exceed the most expensive private law schools.

Berkeley: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/6943.htm $74,047.50
Columbia: http://www.law.columbia.edu/jd_applican ... ns/tuition $74,000
Stanford: http://www.law.stanford.edu/program/tuition/jd/ $71,535
Northwestern: http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissi ... getJD.html $71,285
NYU: http://www.law.nyu.edu/financialaid/bud ... /index.htm $70,886
Yale: http://www.law.yale.edu/admissions/costs.htm $70,450
Harvard: http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/ ... udget.html $70,100
Cornell: http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/admiss ... penses.cfm $69,750
Penn: http://www.law.upenn.edu/prospective/jd/financing.html $68,150
Chicago: http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospective ... aid/budget $68,010
Georgetown: http://www.law.georgetown.edu/finaid/fo ... 010-11.pdf $68,000
Virginia: http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/prospe ... uition.htm $67,700
Duke: http://www.law.duke.edu/admis/tuition $66,938
Michigan: --LinkRemoved-- $65,350



You post this thing ALL THE TIME.

M.M.
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby M.M. » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:23 am

Good God, TLS needs to update their profile on Berkeley. They're off by about 40K at the moment

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im_blue
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby im_blue » Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:00 pm

gymboree wrote:What these guys aren't telling you is that unlike many other states, CA gives you resident status for years 2 and 3. So what may be on the top of the list for year 1, goes down to the bottom of the list in years 2 and 3.

...

This settles down to a very average T14 cost.


The huge fee increases over the next 2 years wipe out any resident savings. Let's say a non-resident applies this year.

2011-12 non-resident: $76,634 ($54,831 tuition + COL)
2012-13 resident: $73,618 ($51,815 tuition + COL)
2013-14 resident: $76,209 ($54,406 tuition assuming 5% increase + COL)
Total = $226,461 assuming no COL increases
Average = $75,487 which is still near the top of the T14 and certainly much higher than any other state's public law school.

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gymboree
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby gymboree » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:29 pm

Okay - so for people are really interested in us answering questions, we're here for that. I'm not up for debating with a bunch of trolls who are obviously not at all interested in coming to Boalt.

If you have substantive questions, ask away.

edit: asking about tuition is substantive, but not when you've already decided to go to another school and are just trolling to make yourself feel better.
Last edited by gymboree on Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

d34d9823
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby d34d9823 » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:06 pm

gymboree wrote:Okay - so for people are really interested in us answering questions, we're here for that. I'm not up for debating with a bunch of trolls who are obviously not at all interested in coming to Boalt.

If you have substantive questions, ask away.

Cost of attendance seems like a substantial question to me. It's hardly trolling to point out that Boalt is going through a time of drastic tuition increase. That doesn't mean it's a bad choice to attend Boalt. It just begs the question "what strong points does Boalt have that can be weighed against the high COA?"

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Veyron
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Veyron » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:42 pm

gymboree wrote:Okay - so for people are really interested in us answering questions, we're here for that. I'm not up for debating with a bunch of trolls who are obviously not at all interested in coming to Boalt.

If you have substantive questions, ask away.


Does it make you sad that you only need add 2 Ts to the end of your school's name in order for your mystical secret to be revealed?

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Shaggier1
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Shaggier1 » Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:34 pm

While I do think that concerns re: tuition are more than legitimate, I think we can probably move on. Yes, it sucks. But this is a public university in a state that has taken a beating and decided to respond by dramatically cutting funding.

We all know what the price is. Gymboree and co. (including myself) are just here to answer questions that could help you all in deciding whether the school is worth that price.

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worldtraveler
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby worldtraveler » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:52 am

d34dluk3 wrote:
gymboree wrote:Okay - so for people are really interested in us answering questions, we're here for that. I'm not up for debating with a bunch of trolls who are obviously not at all interested in coming to Boalt.

If you have substantive questions, ask away.

Cost of attendance seems like a substantial question to me. It's hardly trolling to point out that Boalt is going through a time of drastic tuition increase. That doesn't mean it's a bad choice to attend Boalt. It just begs the question "what strong points does Boalt have that can be weighed against the high COA?"


I feel like that question can and should be asked of any law school. Law school is expensive and it's no exception here.

Basically, these are 5 reasons why I really think Boalt was a good choice.

1. LRAP. Our LRAP is awesome, and it's pretty securely funded. It also covers clerkships most of the time, which a lot of others don't do. It's full coverage up to 65k and partial coverage to 100k.

2. Bay area legal scene. Living in the bay area is awesome. It also gives you lots of opportunities to extern during the school year that you may not get in schools located in more rural areas. Lots of government offices, non-profits, law firms, really something for everybody. This is also something I think applicants need to pay much more attention to as a whole.

3. Grading system. Yes it has its pros and cons. However, I really liked going into fall finals knowing that even if I sub-passed, it wouldn't show on my transcript. I think it helped me stress a lot less.

4. Berkeley as a university. Also something people should pay more attention to. You have 10 credits you can take outside the law school even if not in a joint degree program. You can take advantage of all of the other awesome schools here and other grad programs, like public policy and business.

5. Faculty expansion. Boalt is rapidly expanding its faculty and we're getting a lot of new, up and coming awesome professors. A lot of the new ones seem especially willing to work with students one-on-one or to hire RAs. In my experience, it can be harder to cultivate a relationship with someone entrenched in academia for 30 years. A lot of the new faculty here will also be around for a while, so you have that relationship and that reference for years into the future. Students can also have some of a say in hiring decisions and can help influence the hiring of faculty for fields that particularly interest them.

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Shaggier1
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Shaggier1 » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:50 am

5. Faculty expansion. Boalt is rapidly expanding its faculty and we're getting a lot of new, up and coming awesome professors. A lot of the new ones seem especially willing to work with students one-on-one or to hire RAs. In my experience, it can be harder to cultivate a relationship with someone entrenched in academia for 30 years. A lot of the new faculty here will also be around for a while, so you have that relationship and that reference for years into the future. Students can also have some of a say in hiring decisions and can help influence the hiring of faculty for fields that particularly interest them.


I just want to echo this sentiment. The bottom line re: tuition, IMHO, is that Boalt is doing what it has to do to stay on top. Part of that has been attracting fantastic young professors. Here are some examples:

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/php-program ... facID=5073
--LinkRemoved--
http://www.law.berkeley.edu/php-program ... facID=6467
Last edited by Shaggier1 on Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rundoxierun
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby rundoxierun » Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:14 pm

Sorry to continue the cost speak.. but anyone care to enlighten us on any changes in the schools financial aid system in response to tuition increases?? Any expansion of the matching scholarship fund? Any addition of named scholarships?

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Shaggier1
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Shaggier1 » Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:37 pm

Sorry to continue the cost speak.. but anyone care to enlighten us on any changes in the schools financial aid system in response to tuition increases?? Any expansion of the matching scholarship fund? Any addition of named scholarships?


Financial aid has been maintained and LRAP has been extended. That is about all I know...

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AreJay711
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby AreJay711 » Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:31 pm

I'm on the East Coast but from what I've seen of Berkley on paper I'm interested. My question is more about the California legal market. If I went to Berkley and couldn't/didn't want to leave California how is it getting a job over there and in what cities do most Berkley grads work? I know that sounds kinda dumb but Cali might as well be another country for how little I know about it lol.

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Dignan
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Dignan » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:34 pm

AreJay711 wrote:I'm on the East Coast but from what I've seen of Berkley on paper I'm interested. My question is more about the California legal market. If I went to Berkley and couldn't/didn't want to leave California how is it getting a job over there and in what cities do most Berkley grads work? I know that sounds kinda dumb but Cali might as well be another country for how little I know about it lol.

What follows is based on anecdotes, but I'd say the most popular cities for firm jobs are, in order:

San Francisco
Los Angeles
Palo Alto (mostly cyberlaw/IP there)

Also, a significant minority of Berkeley grads end up in an East Coast market (e.g, NYC, DC). The majority, though, stay in Cali.

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ahduth
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby ahduth » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:59 pm

Dignan wrote:
charliebrownwn wrote:Thanks for all your answers. I had already started to single out berkeley and everything you've said has only reinforced my belief.
Given the high diversity #s, what's your impression of the non-diverse (white) part of boalt's class? Have they all done mind-blowingly exceptional things, or are they similar for the most part with the class as a whole?

I am a white male, and I am neither exceptional nor mind-blowing. I do, however, have several years of work experience.


This... somewhat describes me, so some of the comments earlier on re: the student body make me both a) even more interested in the possibility of heading out to Boalt and b) even more nervous that I might get dinged for not having cured cancer.

Are there very many students there with significant amounts of work experience? What types of work have they done? I definitely feel like my experience in the trenches of corporate America could be a valuable addition to a law school student body, just not sure how unique that background really is.

And as an aside on diversity, should I be telling them I'm mixed race? It's definitely informed my outlook (and my skin tone 8) ), but I feel like I have more powerful reasons that Dean Tom and the admissions folks would want to consider.

BTW, thanks to the Boalt students for answering these questions, it's pretty great. Ignore the trolls and the tangents - the discussion of UVA's handling of transcripts was a rather poor showing. :D

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Shaggier1
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Shaggier1 » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:35 pm

Are there very many students there with significant amounts of work experience? What types of work have they done? I definitely feel like my experience in the trenches of corporate America could be a valuable addition to a law school student body, just not sure how unique that background really is.


There are many students with significant amounts of work experience, yes. People have done all sorts of cool things: software engineers, Hill staffers, Marines, journalists, consultants, biomedical researchers... it really varies too much to even attempt to name them all. The average age of entry is 25, so most people have at least some work experience before coming here. This should help:

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/37.htm

And as an aside on diversity, should I be telling them I'm mixed race? It's definitely informed my outlook (and my skin tone ), but I feel like I have more powerful reasons that Dean Tom and the admissions folks would want to consider.


I don't see why not. If you feel like it has shaped your perspective/is part of your identity.. I think that is exactly what they are looking for. However, maybe a Boaltie with direct experience with URM status can chime in.

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gymboree
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby gymboree » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:16 pm

ahduth wrote:Are there very many students there with significant amounts of work experience? What types of work have they done? I definitely feel like my experience in the trenches of corporate America could be a valuable addition to a law school student body, just not sure how unique that background really is.

There are corporate types as well as the extreme altruists. Berkeley really is a mixed bag, so exhibit the best true composite of yourself you can.

ahduth wrote:And as an aside on diversity, should I be telling them I'm mixed race? It's definitely informed my outlook (and my skin tone 8) ), but I feel like I have more powerful reasons that Dean Tom and the admissions folks would want to consider.

Tell them everything - you certainly shouldn't be hiding your racial identity. Berkeley loves diversity. Why wouldn't you embrace that? I'm not URM, but I don't think that matters as it pertains to advice. Tell them who you are and give them a complete picture! Whether that's skin color or volunteering in a Somalian orphanage or succeeding in corporate America, you have to go for it. (Anecdotally) it is my impression that the timid are not winning the admissions game (without big numbers).

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Kronk
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Kronk » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:52 am

Well, one thing is certain--very few schools get as many trolls as Boalt.

To answer the question about tuition, here is what I have to say: Boalt is committed to making their in-state tuition cost 10% lower than similarly ranked private schools. It is actually, I believe, in Boalt's charter, so it is something they have to abide by in the future. You will be paying less at Boalt than most of the other private schools, and Boalt is the best public school in the nation (just as Berkeley in general is the best public school in the nation), so I don't think the tuition argument is really very strong. I think it's also notable that the LRAP program at Boalt is so strong that although I got scholarship offers at other schools, Boalt still ended up being cheaper than most of them at sticker.

As for what I decided between, it's in my LSN profile. Essentially the decision came down to UChicago with 75,000 over three years or Boalt at sticker and I chose Boalt. I was also pretty seriously looking at NYU, and had a 90,000 offer from UVa. After admitted students day, I immediately withdrew all my applications I had received decisions for. I chose not to remain on the Yale and Harvard waitlists after I received them. While I think I may have gone to Yale over Berkeley had I gotten in, the Yale waitlist is a black hole, and I don't think I would've picked Harvard over Berkeley.

As for the stats, the job placement, and whatever else nonsense you want to throw around, I have this to say: IF you get in (big IF) come to admitted students day. If you still have a prejudice against Boalt after meeting the student body, I would be extremely surprised. I saw no appreciable difference in the intelligence of Boalt, UChicago, or NYU students when I visited the schools. Despite the fact that I know my numbers are fairly high for Boalt because of statistics, if I didn't have that information, I would think I barely squeaked into the class. My mod makes me feel unprepared on a daily basis. The 1L clinics and journals are amazing, and the sense of public service at Boalt is incredible. I am involved with two clinics, one student group, and a journal and don't yet feel overwhelmed, so everything here is doable.

The biggest thing is this: students at Boalt actually enjoy their time there. I personally think that is incredibly important, and almost everyday at Boalt I consider myself blessed and know fully that I made the right decision. I have spoken to other people, and almost everyone here feels the same. If you have any qualms about the hiring at Boalt (which you shouldn't, most of the 2Ls here that actually tried to get 1L SAs here seem to have gotten them), I promise you they will leave your mind as soon as you step on campus. The life here is THAT good.

If people like im_blue want to keep blabbering about the tuition, the placement, and the stats (most of which I think are hyperbole) that's fine. Just know that every student at Boalt could care less about any of the three.




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