Boalt 1Ls taking questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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bilbobaggins
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby bilbobaggins » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:23 pm

Kronk wrote:Do 2Ls have any consensus over what grades you can feel relatively safe with at OCIP?


Define safe.

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Rotor
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Rotor » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:06 am

Kronk wrote:Do 2Ls have any consensus over what grades you can feel relatively safe with at OCIP?

It's more than just grades, so I don't know your question has an answer as is. Prior work experience seemed to play a key role in some offers-- especially to those who were middle of the pack.

Bilbo's point is important too. Not only do you have to define safe in probability terms, you have to define safe for what.

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:24 am

I've heard (completely unsubstantiated) rumblings that top 20-25% was mostly "BigLaw secure" last year, but you 2L's would know better than I. And of course, this begs the question of what "Top 25%" even means in terms of HH/H/P breakdown.

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Rotor
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Rotor » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:03 pm

Tangerine Gleam wrote:I've heard (completely unsubstantiated) rumblings that top 20-25% was mostly "BigLaw secure" last year, but you 2L's would know better than I. And of course, this begs the question of what "Top 25%" even means in terms of HH/H/P breakdown.

I'd be curious about the source. I, for one, only have a rough estimate of my own place in the class and next to none of where others are. Not sure anyone in the class has the ability to estimate. Maybe if it's CDO, but I haven't heard anything from them along these lines. Have the 1L orientations started yet?

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suspicious android
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby suspicious android » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:11 pm

Which schools place better than Berkeley than the bay area? Does a top Columia student have an advantage over a top Berkeley student getting a SF or Silicon Valley job, all other factors being equal?

What portion of the students generally stay in Northern California after graduation?

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Kronk
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Kronk » Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:20 pm

Rotor wrote:
Kronk wrote:Do 2Ls have any consensus over what grades you can feel relatively safe with at OCIP?

It's more than just grades, so I don't know your question has an answer as is. Prior work experience seemed to play a key role in some offers-- especially to those who were middle of the pack.

Bilbo's point is important too. Not only do you have to define safe in probability terms, you have to define safe for what.


I meant safe in the sense that you will get a market-ish paying job as long as you aren't a bad interviewer safe and have average work experience, extracurriculars, etc.

pkt63
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby pkt63 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:42 pm

Current Boalties: do you find the estimated budget for books ($1500) they list on the website to be fairly accurate? Having gotten the financial aid package back (thx FB friends for being on top of it), it's time to face the music and start some serious spreadsheeting.

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Rotor
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Rotor » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:53 am

pkt63 wrote:Current Boalties: do you find the estimated budget for books ($1500) they list on the website to be fairly accurate? Having gotten the financial aid package back (thx FB friends for being on top of it), it's time to face the music and start some serious spreadsheeting.

Seems on the high side but in the ball-park. I would say somewhere in the 650-700 has been normal if you by from Neds (the Boalt bookstore).

May not be as feasible for first semester if you don't know who you'll have, but every semester after that you can get much better deals AND still have your books on time through Amazon (or other sites).

The bad thing about that alternative is that the student groups get a share of Ned's sales. I felt bad about it until I saw exactly how much of a premium I was paying over amazon. (And I'm sure there's a site out there where you might get it for even less. A prof recommended lawbooks4less.com but I never found it that much better than amazon).

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bilbobaggins
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby bilbobaggins » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:16 pm

If you add in supplements $1000 is probably normal for the average student during an average semester.

Comparing Boalt to Columbia in terms of placement in Norcal is likely not to produce results that anyone would consider statistically significant. They're both great schools.

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Shaggier1
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Shaggier1 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:29 pm

Comparing Boalt to Columbia in terms of placement in Norcal is likely not to produce results that anyone would consider statistically significant. They're both great schools.


This is correct. However, I don't think people realize just how small the SF market is, especially ITE. It is one of the markets where some (many?) firms many prefer strong ties to the area. That being the case, in your world of "all else being equal," Suspicious Android, I would take Berkeley over CLS if you are sure you want to be in the Bay Area.

Just MHO, though.

fish52
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby fish52 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:42 pm

Shaggier1 wrote:
Comparing Boalt to Columbia in terms of placement in Norcal is likely not to produce results that anyone would consider statistically significant. They're both great schools.


This is correct. However, I don't think people realize just how small the SF market is, especially ITE. It is one of the markets where some (many?) firms many prefer strong ties to the area. That being the case, in your world of "all else being equal," Suspicious Android, I would take Berkeley over CLS if you are sure you want to be in the Bay Area.

Just MHO, though.

I was under the impression that this was true for any market- that they prefer ties to the area... I would expect Boalt to do better in SF and Columbia to do better in NYC. I actually had this exact same conversation about market ties and school selection with a friend of mine who is a UVA grad doing BigLaw in DC. He said ties to the area are crucial for many firms, so the closest schools tend to place better than peer, or even slightly better, schools. He did say that any of the T10 will open doors in any of the markets. But this was all just his opinion, like anything else.

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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:19 am

What about IP boutiques or smaller firms in the Bay Area? Would not going to Boalt/Stanford drastically hurt the chances of getting one of those jobs.

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Tanicius
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Tanicius » Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:21 pm

r6_philly wrote:What about IP boutiques or smaller firms in the Bay Area? Would not going to Boalt/Stanford drastically hurt the chances of getting one of those jobs.


:shock: Had to do a double take before I understood you meant:

r6_philly wrote:What about IP boutiques or smaller firms in the Bay Area? Would not going to Boalt/Stanford drastically hurt the chances of getting one of those jobs.

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Kronk
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Kronk » Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:36 pm

r6_philly wrote:What about IP boutiques or smaller firms in the Bay Area? Would not going to Boalt/Stanford drastically hurt the chances of getting one of those jobs.


Berkeley does extremely well in the CA boutiques.

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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:42 pm

Tanicius wrote:
:shock: Had to do a double take before I understood you meant:


Sorry for the confusing, need to phrase it better!

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aesis
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby aesis » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:21 am

This is kind of an odd, gunnery question, but are most laptop exams blocked or unblocked? Meaning, will I more often have access to my files for reference purposes, or am I going to have to print my outlines out and refer to the physical copies?

I like having my outlines in an adjacent window to my main writing window and am thinking about buying a laptop with higher resolution for that purpose. If exams are blocked then it wouldn't matter in the first place. TIA! (god this sounds so anal/gunner/lame)

djfe4president
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby djfe4president » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:42 am

What is the consensus on housing? What are the pros and cons?

It seems that everyone who went to Berkeley loved Berkeley :P

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bilbobaggins
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby bilbobaggins » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:07 am

aesis wrote:This is kind of an odd, gunnery question, but are most laptop exams blocked or unblocked? Meaning, will I more often have access to my files for reference purposes, or am I going to have to print my outlines out and refer to the physical copies?

I like having my outlines in an adjacent window to my main writing window and am thinking about buying a laptop with higher resolution for that purpose. If exams are blocked then it wouldn't matter in the first place. TIA! (god this sounds so anal/gunner/lame)


I've never heard of an exam given at Berkeley using the software that would block shit. That being said, depending on the prof, you may not have any outlines or you may have to print them. In my experience, many allow you to access materials on your computer. I am not sure I'd buy a laptop for the sole purpose of high resolution exam taking as I cannot see how it'd make a substantive difference (this is not an invitation to be convinced of this as I doubt I am capable of agreeing with the minor difference translating into any real success).

As for living in Berkeley - Oakland is way better.

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Shaggier1
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Shaggier1 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:28 am

As for living in Berkeley - Oakland is way better.


Oakland is cool, but this ultimately comes down to preference. The Elmwood neighborhood in Berkeley is really cool. And there are some great places over on the Northside.

I live a block away from school (Jackson House). It is undergrad-ish and fratty, but I make the sacrifice because I have a 3 minute walk to school every day. Will probably move to Elmwood area at some point.

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Shaggier1
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Shaggier1 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:31 am

I was under the impression that this was true for any market- that they prefer ties to the area... I would expect Boalt to do better in SF and Columbia to do better in NYC. I actually had this exact same conversation about market ties and school selection with a friend of mine who is a UVA grad doing BigLaw in DC. He said ties to the area are crucial for many firms, so the closest schools tend to place better than peer, or even slightly better, schools. He did say that any of the T10 will open doors in any of the markets. But this was all just his opinion, like anything else.


Not true for any market. NY doesn't care much about ties. They just assume everyone wants to come and practice in NY. And it is easier to crack LA without ties than it is SF, for example.

I would say NY and SF are at the extremes, and there are variations in between.

fish52
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby fish52 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:30 pm

Shaggier1 wrote:
I was under the impression that this was true for any market- that they prefer ties to the area... I would expect Boalt to do better in SF and Columbia to do better in NYC. I actually had this exact same conversation about market ties and school selection with a friend of mine who is a UVA grad doing BigLaw in DC. He said ties to the area are crucial for many firms, so the closest schools tend to place better than peer, or even slightly better, schools. He did say that any of the T10 will open doors in any of the markets. But this was all just his opinion, like anything else.


Not true for any market. NY doesn't care much about ties. They just assume everyone wants to come and practice in NY. And it is easier to crack LA without ties than it is SF, for example.

I would say NY and SF are at the extremes, and there are variations in between.

This makes sense- thanks!

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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby IzziesGal » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:51 pm

aesis wrote:This is kind of an odd, gunnery question, but are most laptop exams blocked or unblocked? Meaning, will I more often have access to my files for reference purposes, or am I going to have to print my outlines out and refer to the physical copies?

I like having my outlines in an adjacent window to my main writing window and am thinking about buying a laptop with higher resolution for that purpose. If exams are blocked then it wouldn't matter in the first place. TIA! (god this sounds so anal/gunner/lame)


All of the open book exams I have had have been closed laptop and open printed materials --> meaning you take the exam on your laptop in Word (on the honor system that you don't access your materials or the internet) and then you print out your outlines and class notes and schlep in all your Gilbert's, Emmanuels, E&Es, etc. I've never had a professor allow us to use our outlines or class notes on the computer - they specifically say that they don't want us to be able to control-F in our outlines, because some people (believe it or not) never use laptops in law school, and this would give an unfair advantage to the kids that do use them.

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IzziesGal
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby IzziesGal » Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:55 pm

Shaggier1 wrote:
I was under the impression that this was true for any market- that they prefer ties to the area... I would expect Boalt to do better in SF and Columbia to do better in NYC. I actually had this exact same conversation about market ties and school selection with a friend of mine who is a UVA grad doing BigLaw in DC. He said ties to the area are crucial for many firms, so the closest schools tend to place better than peer, or even slightly better, schools. He did say that any of the T10 will open doors in any of the markets. But this was all just his opinion, like anything else.


Not true for any market. NY doesn't care much about ties. They just assume everyone wants to come and practice in NY. And it is easier to crack LA without ties than it is SF, for example.

I would say NY and SF are at the extremes, and there are variations in between.


+1 for not being true for NY. Some of my classmates are going to NY this summer - and they have no work, family, or school related ties, and some have never even stepped foot anywhere on the east coast.

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bilbobaggins
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby bilbobaggins » Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:14 pm

Shaggier1 wrote:
As for living in Berkeley - Oakland is way better.


Oakland is cool, but this ultimately comes down to preference. The Elmwood neighborhood in Berkeley is really cool. And there are some great places over on the Northside.

I live a block away from school (Jackson House). It is undergrad-ish and fratty, but I make the sacrifice because I have a 3 minute walk to school every day. Will probably move to Elmwood area at some point.


Well, I wouldn't live in a dorm no matter how much you paid me. But, aside from dorm living, Oakland is a little farther, but not by much (and not in terms of bus times) and is way cheaper than North Berkeley. There's also more to do and it's easier to get to SF and downtown Oakland. It takes me 10 minutes to drive, 15 to bus and 15 to ride my bike from Temescal and would be like a 40 minute walk if I ever did it.

petite chouette
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby petite chouette » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:59 am

Hey I am going to be super annoying and repeat my question because I think it got overlooked in favor of more relevant ones, but if anyone knows?

petite chouette wrote:I don't think anyone has asked this yet, so apologies if it has been mentioned already. Does attending Berkeley for UG have any bearing on acceptance to Boalt? There are myths that it's much harder to get into the grad programs if you went there for UG, which is probably not true but I was wondering if there is anything I should keep in mind when applying for LS here.

Similarly, does it reflect negatively on someone in hiring, etc to not have more diversity in their schooling? I love living in the Bay Area and do not want to leave if at all possible!


By the way, my 2 cents about living situations in Berkeley... DO NOT live in university housing, pretty much all other options are slightly to significantly cheaper and there are lots of beautiful houses around that you can rent with your friends, just rent one room in and meet other grad/law students, etc. even if you don't know anyone coming in. I would definitely recommend Elmwood as well, it's an entirely different community from the frat area but only a 10-15 minute walk to campus depending on how far down (ie, closer to Oakland) you live.




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