Boalt 1Ls taking questions Forum

[Dayan114]

@Kronk and IzziesGal -- thanks for the thoughtful replies.

[bilbobaggins]

Do you guys think the new UC budget cuts are going to negatively impact Boalt? I saw this and it made me worry for the school since apparently the law school still gets 30% of its budget from the state:

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/files/annua ... er-res.pdf

This has been covered a billion times. We get almost no money from the state and so further cuts shouldn't affect us badly (beyond what the UC as a whole does to make money off of its professional schools). We get under $4M every year from the state and are trying to have something like a $50M+ operating budget.

[suspicious android]

This has been covered a billion times. We get almost no money from the state and so further cuts shouldn't affect us badly (beyond what the UC as a whole does to make money off of its professional schools). We get under $4M every year from the state and are trying to have something like a $50M+ operating budget.

That .pdf from Berkeley says state funds are 19 million, 30%. Seems like cause for concern if there are more budget cuts.

[bilbobaggins]

This has been covered a billion times. We get almost no money from the state and so further cuts shouldn't affect us badly (beyond what the UC as a whole does to make money off of its professional schools). We get under $4M every year from the state and are trying to have something like a $50M+ operating budget.

That .pdf from Berkeley says state funds are 19 million, 30%. Seems like cause for concern if there are more budget cuts.

This is very strange as they showed us very different numbers in a presentation. (The numbers i cited comes from a presentation given in Fall of 09). It couldn't have changed that way in that time so I am guessing there is number fudging going on.

[r6_philly]

This is very strange as they showed us very different numbers in a presentation. (The numbers i cited comes from a presentation given in Fall of 09). It couldn't have changed that way in that time so I am guessing there is number fudging going on.

So you blasted me with old numbers??? (it's all good)

[suspicious android]

This is very strange as they showed us very different numbers in a presentation. (The numbers i cited comes from a presentation given in Fall of 09). It couldn't have changed that way in that time so I am guessing there is number fudging going on.

Someone needs to get to the bottom of this, then.

[aesis]

Keep in mind that that report is worded in a way to solicit donations from alumni, but it is still something to consider. I'm more surprised at Penn's/Stanford's endowment than Boalt's. Harvard's is absurd.

[cmaas]

The average age of an entering student is 25. Will someone coming straight out of UG (like 21), feel out of place?

Edit: Sorry about interrupting the flow of the conversation. I didn't read the last couple pages.

[Shaggier1]

The average age of an entering student is 25. Will someone coming straight out of UG (like 21), feel out of place?

While I cannot speak to this personally (I am 26), I have several friends who are straight-thru's. They hang out and socialize with the rest of us as if we were all the same age. No one really seems to pay attention much to age, and its not like those of us who took time off sit around talking excessively about our work experience, etc. Those conversations come up, but they don't dominate.

Like I said, I cannot answer your question directly, but hopefully that helps some? PM me if you would like me to put you in touch directly with some folks who came straight from UG. I'm sure they'd be glad to talk to you. Good luck deciding.

[powerlawyer06]

I was in the Bay for business this week and I decided to go lurk around Berkeley's campus (I am aware it is spring break). Can someone tell me when the construction on the south side of Boalt will be completed? Also, what is that fountain looking object they are constructing to the west of Boalt? Finally, what is going on with the stadium? It seems as though that whole area is under massive construction.

P.S. Berkeley's campus is amazing, even in the rain. Actually the trees make the whole place smell wonderful in the rain.

[Rotor]

I was in the Bay for business this week and I decided to go lurk around Berkeley's campus (I am aware it is spring break). Can someone tell me when the construction on the south side of Boalt will be completed? Also, what is that fountain looking object they are constructing to the west of Boalt? Finally, what is going on with the stadium? It seems as though that whole area is under massive construction.

P.S. Berkeley's campus is amazing, even in the rain. Actually the trees make the whole place smell wonderful in the rain.

The south addition was supposed to be done April/May but the last update we got suggested it may be a bit delayed (maybe May/June? Anyone else remember...it wasn't a big delay considering how long the project has taken).

It's really starting to shape up. They've just installed Ginko trees which had a historic connection to that spot before the construction-- but this time they made sure to get all male trees so no stinky fruit falling on the plaza.

As for the fountain on the west side, who knows. I think it's odd they're putting a fountain next to the other fountain but that sure is what it looks like. Part of the fun is seeing how it develops (at least since the digging and pile driving and inadvertant fire alarms stopped last year)

Memorial Stadium is going through a major upgrade. Football games will be at AT&T Park in SF next year, but I think it's due to open after that.

Class of 2014 will be lucky-- the first class in a long time not signficantly distracted by construction zones, closed hallways & noise. Honestly, I haven't found it all that bothersome-- but from the sound of some of the updates, some people have.

Edit: Love biking in every morning through the eucalyptus grove. Refreshing after the slog up the hill!

[gymboree]

I was in the Bay for business this week and I decided to go lurk around Berkeley's campus (I am aware it is spring break). Can someone tell me when the construction on the south side of Boalt will be completed? Also, what is that fountain looking object they are constructing to the west of Boalt? Finally, what is going on with the stadium? It seems as though that whole area is under massive construction.

P.S. Berkeley's campus is amazing, even in the rain. Actually the trees make the whole place smell wonderful in the rain.

Like Rotor said, the construction is near its end. You can check it out here: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/building/co ... tions.html

The official timeline says we "move in" by August - but a recent email let us know that the library stacks are starting their move in April (and will continue through May). The whole building project will be done for the fall. Very excited for all the new space! It looks amazing.

[Kronk]

The average age of an entering student is 25. Will someone coming straight out of UG (like 21), feel out of place?

While I cannot speak to this personally (I am 26), I have several friends who are straight-thru's. They hang out and socialize with the rest of us as if we were all the same age. No one really seems to pay attention much to age, and its not like those of us who took time off sit around talking excessively about our work experience, etc. Those conversations come up, but they don't dominate.

Like I said, I cannot answer your question directly, but hopefully that helps some? PM me if you would like me to put you in touch directly with some folks who came straight from UG. I'm sure they'd be glad to talk to you. Good luck deciding.

I'm straight through (I took one semester off in undergrad and worked, but graduated a semester early). Just turned 22 when I arrived at Boalt. I don't feel out of place. In fact, I've hung out with shaggier a few times. Never know how old / young he was. The mid-twenties all pretty much look the same to me.

[bilbobaggins]

The average age of an entering student is 25. Will someone coming straight out of UG (like 21), feel out of place?

While I cannot speak to this personally (I am 26), I have several friends who are straight-thru's. They hang out and socialize with the rest of us as if we were all the same age. No one really seems to pay attention much to age, and its not like those of us who took time off sit around talking excessively about our work experience, etc. Those conversations come up, but they don't dominate.

Like I said, I cannot answer your question directly, but hopefully that helps some? PM me if you would like me to put you in touch directly with some folks who came straight from UG. I'm sure they'd be glad to talk to you. Good luck deciding.

I'm straight through (I took one semester off in undergrad and worked, but graduated a semester early). Just turned 22 when I arrived at Boalt. I don't feel out of place. In fact, I've hung out with shaggier a few times. Never know how old / young he was. The mid-twenties all pretty much look the same to me.

I've met awesome 22 year olds and lame ones. Same goes for the older 20s contingent like myself.

[fish52]

I'm excited to see the campus. I've never heard of another campus where some people visit and think it's absolutely ugly and others thing it is one of the most beautiful they've ever seen. Hopefully after ASW I feel the latter---some of the pictures I've seen make me think that I will.

A few quick questions for the Boalties, especially those in PI. What is your perception of the LRAP? And how does it compare to the others in the t14? I see that Michigan and Chicago just updated their LRAP programs, both of which have higher income thresholds than Boalt... Michigan's includes even tenure-track academics (I believe) and Harvard includes absolutely any career.... Also, if I'm wanting to work for a foreign NGO, I see that I qualify for Berkeley LRAP but not the government's IBR program... what kind of implications does that have? Finally, with LRAP, if you leave the program 5 years in does that mean that a significant part of your principal will have been paid down, or do you pretty much end up shouldering the same debt as you would have if you hadn't done LRAP in the first place?
Thanks in advance!

[worldtraveler]

I'm excited to see the campus. I've never heard of another campus where some people visit and think it's absolutely ugly and others thing it is one of the most beautiful they've ever seen. Hopefully after ASW I feel the latter---some of the pictures I've seen make me think that I will.

A few quick questions for the Boalties, especially those in PI. What is your perception of the LRAP? And how does it compare to the others in the t14? I see that Michigan and Chicago just updated their LRAP programs, both of which have higher income thresholds than Boalt... Michigan's includes even tenure-track academics (I believe) and Harvard includes absolutely any career.... Also, if I'm wanting to work for a foreign NGO, I see that I qualify for Berkeley LRAP but not the government's IBR program... what kind of implications does that have? Finally, with LRAP, if you leave the program 5 years in does that mean that a significant part of your principal will have been paid down, or do you pretty much end up shouldering the same debt as you would have if you hadn't done LRAP in the first place?
Thanks in advance!

That's not really how it works. I would suggest you contact the LRAP coordinator. She's really nice and could answer your questions far better than anyone else.
Sigrid Allen
lrap@law.berkeley.edu

[srvyorgeneral]

This is very strange as they showed us very different numbers in a presentation. (The numbers i cited comes from a presentation given in Fall of 09). It couldn't have changed that way in that time so I am guessing there is number fudging going on.

Someone needs to get to the bottom of this, then.

Interesting that the report cited above indicates ("We boosted financial aid across the board, because state budget cuts have forced in-state tuition up over $44,000 this year.")

Seems like a relevant question to ask at ASW, no?

[Kronk]

I'm excited to see the campus. I've never heard of another campus where some people visit and think it's absolutely ugly and others thing it is one of the most beautiful they've ever seen. Hopefully after ASW I feel the latter---some of the pictures I've seen make me think that I will.

A few quick questions for the Boalties, especially those in PI. What is your perception of the LRAP? And how does it compare to the others in the t14? I see that Michigan and Chicago just updated their LRAP programs, both of which have higher income thresholds than Boalt... Michigan's includes even tenure-track academics (I believe) and Harvard includes absolutely any career.... Also, if I'm wanting to work for a foreign NGO, I see that I qualify for Berkeley LRAP but not the government's IBR program... what kind of implications does that have? Finally, with LRAP, if you leave the program 5 years in does that mean that a significant part of your principal will have been paid down, or do you pretty much end up shouldering the same debt as you would have if you hadn't done LRAP in the first place?
Thanks in advance!

The IBR is actually integrated with the LRAP at all three schools. Standing alone, the Berkeley LRAP is actually far, far superior to both the Michigan and the Chicago programs. When you integrate all three with the IBR, they are closer, but you have to realize that in order to use the Michigan and Chicago LRAPs the way they are advertised, you have to work 120 months in government and nonprofit. At Berkeley, you will pay significantly less if you work the 120 months, but the LRAP standing alone is better than any LRAP except Yale and Stanford.

If you choose to integrate with the IBR, the first salary cap is $60,000. If you make under that amount you will pay very little if any of your loans, as the Berkeley program will essentially repay the 15% of your salary that is supposed to go to the IBR payments. After that, there is a sliding scale on how much help you receive on that 15% from $60,000-$100,000.

Pretty sure that is all accurate. LRAP was pretty much the biggest determining factor for me last year in my choice between Chicago and Berkeley, so I looked into it heavily last year.

[fish52]

I'm excited to see the campus. I've never heard of another campus where some people visit and think it's absolutely ugly and others thing it is one of the most beautiful they've ever seen. Hopefully after ASW I feel the latter---some of the pictures I've seen make me think that I will.

A few quick questions for the Boalties, especially those in PI. What is your perception of the LRAP? And how does it compare to the others in the t14? I see that Michigan and Chicago just updated their LRAP programs, both of which have higher income thresholds than Boalt... Michigan's includes even tenure-track academics (I believe) and Harvard includes absolutely any career.... Also, if I'm wanting to work for a foreign NGO, I see that I qualify for Berkeley LRAP but not the government's IBR program... what kind of implications does that have? Finally, with LRAP, if you leave the program 5 years in does that mean that a significant part of your principal will have been paid down, or do you pretty much end up shouldering the same debt as you would have if you hadn't done LRAP in the first place?
Thanks in advance!

That's not really how it works. I would suggest you contact the LRAP coordinator. She's really nice and could answer your questions far better than anyone else.
Sigrid Allen
lrap@law.berkeley.edu

Thanks for the response! I'll probably just wait to talk to them at ASW (me and everyone else I'm sure). What I meant, but spoke incorrectly, about the bolded statement is that while Berkeley LRAP will cover work for foreign NGOs, the federal government's public service loan forgiveness program (or w/e it's called) doesn't. I suppose that it doesn't matter in that case, though. If anyone else is interested message me and I'll contact the berkeley aid office and find out.

[powerlawyer06]

IT seems like many of you are doing PI work but I am interested in grades for OCI...

What kind of grades (HH,H,P) do you need to get in your 1L year to do well at OCI? I know most of you have not gone through it yet but what have you heard? Input from 2Ls is much appreciated.

[worldtraveler]

I'm excited to see the campus. I've never heard of another campus where some people visit and think it's absolutely ugly and others thing it is one of the most beautiful they've ever seen. Hopefully after ASW I feel the latter---some of the pictures I've seen make me think that I will.

A few quick questions for the Boalties, especially those in PI. What is your perception of the LRAP? And how does it compare to the others in the t14? I see that Michigan and Chicago just updated their LRAP programs, both of which have higher income thresholds than Boalt... Michigan's includes even tenure-track academics (I believe) and Harvard includes absolutely any career.... Also, if I'm wanting to work for a foreign NGO, I see that I qualify for Berkeley LRAP but not the government's IBR program... what kind of implications does that have? Finally, with LRAP, if you leave the program 5 years in does that mean that a significant part of your principal will have been paid down, or do you pretty much end up shouldering the same debt as you would have if you hadn't done LRAP in the first place?
Thanks in advance!

That's not really how it works. I would suggest you contact the LRAP coordinator. She's really nice and could answer your questions far better than anyone else.
Sigrid Allen
lrap@law.berkeley.edu

Thanks for the response! I'll probably just wait to talk to them at ASW (me and everyone else I'm sure). What I meant, but spoke incorrectly, about the bolded statement is that while Berkeley LRAP will cover work for foreign NGOs, the federal government's public service loan forgiveness program (or w/e it's called) doesn't. I suppose that it doesn't matter in that case, though. If anyone else is interested message me and I'll contact the berkeley aid office and find out.

I would suggest e-mailing first or asking if there's a time you could have a phone conversation or something. It's a lot more helpful to get an individualized synopsis of the LRAP. The stuff about working abroad is also pretty complicated and some things are covered and some things not. The LRAP also apparently changed a bit from my class to the class of 2013 and maybe it's changing again soon, so it's best to get the information direct from them as a lot of things floating around on the website or from students who are already here might not be totally accurate for you.

[Kronk]

IT seems like many of you are doing PI work but I am interested in grades for OCI...

What kind of grades (HH,H,P) do you need to get in your 1L year to do well at OCI? I know most of you have not gone through it yet but what have you heard? Input from 2Ls is much appreciated.

I think it really depends. From a purely statistical standpoint, considering around 50%-ish of the class gets NLJ250 jobs, it would seem you'd need to be around the median. I think we have conjectured that the median is about an H a semester with maybe an extra H thrown in. So if you have three grades your first semester, maybe something like P, P, H is the median.

That said, I have one friend who got multiple offers with all P's the first YEAR except for one H the second semester. Got V50 offers. I also know people with relatively good grades, more Hs than Ps, who didn't get an offer. 2Ls will definitely know more than me, but it seems like ideally, you'd have half something like half Ps and half Hs, and assuming you fit in well with the interviewers and the firm, you'll probably get something.

[postcard]

Does this (in state tuition for 2, 3 year) apply for international students?

What these guys aren't telling you is that unlike many other states, CA gives you resident status for years 2 and 3. So what may be on the top of the list for year 1, goes down to the bottom of the list in years 2 and 3.
YEAR 1:
Berkeley: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/6943.htm $74,047.50
Columbia: http://www.law.columbia.edu/jd_applican ... ns/tuition $74,000
Stanford: http://www.law.stanford.edu/program/tuition/jd/ $71,535
Northwestern: http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissi ... getJD.html $71,285
NYU: --LinkRemoved-- ... /index.htm $70,886
Yale: http://www.law.yale.edu/admissions/costs.htm $70,450
Harvard: http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/ ... udget.html $70,100
Cornell: --LinkRemoved-- ... penses.cfm $69,750
Penn: http://www.law.upenn.edu/prospective/jd/financing.html $68,150
Chicago: http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospective ... aid/budget $68,010
Georgetown: http://www.law.georgetown.edu/finaid/fo ... 010-11.pdf $68,000
Virginia: --LinkRemoved-- ... uition.htm $67,700
Duke: http://www.law.duke.edu/admis/tuition $66,938
Michigan: --LinkRemoved-- ... budget.pdf $65,350

YEARS 2 & 3:
Columbia: http://www.law.columbia.edu/jd_applican ... ns/tuition $74,000
Stanford: http://www.law.stanford.edu/program/tuition/jd/ $71,535
Northwestern: http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissi ... getJD.html $71,285
NYU: --LinkRemoved-- ... /index.htm $70,886
Yale: http://www.law.yale.edu/admissions/costs.htm $70,450
Harvard: http://www.law.harvard.edu/current/sfs/ ... udget.html $70,100
Cornell: --LinkRemoved-- ... penses.cfm $69,750
Penn: http://www.law.upenn.edu/prospective/jd/financing.html $68,150
Chicago: http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospective ... aid/budget $68,010
Georgetown: http://www.law.georgetown.edu/finaid/fo ... 010-11.pdf $68,000
Virginia: --LinkRemoved-- ... uition.htm $67,700
Duke: http://www.law.duke.edu/admis/tuition $66,938
Berkeley: http://www.law.berkeley.edu/6943.htm $66,047.50
Michigan: --LinkRemoved-- ... budget.pdf $65,350

This settles down to a very average T14 cost.

[r6_philly]

Those figures are old, the in-state has inflated quite a bit. And I think residency isn't automatic.

[Kronk]

Those figures are old, the in-state has inflated quite a bit. And I think residency isn't automatic.

Those were the numbers for this current year.