Boalt 1Ls taking questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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Rotor
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Rotor » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:33 pm

r6_philly wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:
...


I have a serious to death question. Does anyone know if bilbo is an actual Boalt student?

I don't know who he is IRL, but I have no doubt that he is indeed a Boaltie. While his opinions/perspectives may be different than mine sometimes, pretty much everything he says is based in fact or are opinions that are similar to those of others in the school. Besides, his Dean Tom tar is almost prima facie proof he's a Boaltie. :)

As for the latest post that has moved you to hyperbole, he is correct-- Dec 1st isn't the be-all, end-all. Personally, I told 1Ls who asked my opinion to take Dec. 1 very seriously and send out at least some apps out at that time. But PI/PS jobs generally don't hire until later and Dec 1 isn't necessary. (I just advise spreading eggs into many baskets and since some of those baskets will benefit from early apps, you ought to start early IMO.

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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:56 pm

Rotor wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:
...


I have a serious to death question. Does anyone know if bilbo is an actual Boalt student?

I don't know who he is IRL, but I have no doubt that he is indeed a Boaltie. While his opinions/perspectives may be different than mine sometimes, pretty much everything he says is based in fact or are opinions that are similar to those of others in the school. Besides, his Dean Tom tar is almost prima facie proof he's a Boaltie. :)

As for the latest post that has moved you to hyperbole, he is correct-- Dec 1st isn't the be-all, end-all. Personally, I told 1Ls who asked my opinion to take Dec. 1 very seriously and send out at least some apps out at that time. But PI/PS jobs generally don't hire until later and Dec 1 isn't necessary. (I just advise spreading eggs into many baskets and since some of those baskets will benefit from early apps, you ought to start early IMO.


Why is every one of you so nice except for him? I had very good impressions of people in the Bay when I visited.

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worldtraveler
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby worldtraveler » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:05 pm

r6_philly wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:
...


I have a serious to death question. Does anyone know if bilbo is an actual Boalt student?


Yes.


In regards to when to apply for jobs, it COMPLETELY depends on what you want to do. For 1L firm jobs, federal judges, DOJ, then you better be mailing out Dec. 1st. For (almost) anything else, you can wait and do it over break or in Jan/Feb.

I'm a 2L and I'm solely interested in public interest/NGO work, primarily internationally. I have offers from contacts, but anything I actually formally applied to is just now looking at applications and getting back to people. I probably won't know where I'm going until March or maybe later, and that's just the way it is. The PI hiring system is far later than others, and the international PI hiring is even later than the US. At this point, had I wanted gov work or law firms I would probably be screwed.

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bilbobaggins
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby bilbobaggins » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:24 pm

r6_philly wrote:
Rotor wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:
...


I have a serious to death question. Does anyone know if bilbo is an actual Boalt student?

I don't know who he is IRL, but I have no doubt that he is indeed a Boaltie. While his opinions/perspectives may be different than mine sometimes, pretty much everything he says is based in fact or are opinions that are similar to those of others in the school. Besides, his Dean Tom tar is almost prima facie proof he's a Boaltie. :)

As for the latest post that has moved you to hyperbole, he is correct-- Dec 1st isn't the be-all, end-all. Personally, I told 1Ls who asked my opinion to take Dec. 1 very seriously and send out at least some apps out at that time. But PI/PS jobs generally don't hire until later and Dec 1 isn't necessary. (I just advise spreading eggs into many baskets and since some of those baskets will benefit from early apps, you ought to start early IMO.


Why is every one of you so nice except for him? I had very good impressions of people in the Bay when I visited.


Here's what I've observed:

You state multiple opinions with no factual basis.

I disagree and present facts as to why you're wrong.

This process repeats itself until I get fed up, restate my facts and also point you to places where we've had the conversation before.

You start calling me names, question whether or not I'm an actual student and still cannot accept the fact that you could possibly be incorrect about something you have no knowledge about and of which I have firsthand knowledge.

I don't come here to be "nice." I come here to give people accurate information about Boalt and the law school process and also to attempt to dispel the myriad rumors on TLS about Boalt, rumors that you consistently spread.

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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:33 pm

worldtraveler wrote:Yes.


In regards to when to apply for jobs, it COMPLETELY depends on what you want to do. For 1L firm jobs, federal judges, DOJ, then you better be mailing out Dec. 1st. For (almost) anything else, you can wait and do it over break or in Jan/Feb.

I'm a 2L and I'm solely interested in public interest/NGO work, primarily internationally. I have offers from contacts, but anything I actually formally applied to is just now looking at applications and getting back to people. I probably won't know where I'm going until March or maybe later, and that's just the way it is. The PI hiring system is far later than others, and the international PI hiring is even later than the US. At this point, had I wanted gov work or law firms I would probably be screwed.


So do a lot of people at Boalt go for SA positions, and how competitive is it? I have the understanding that a lot of folks are PI minded, so less people are competing for SA positions right?

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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:40 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:
Here's what I've observed:

You state multiple opinions with no factual basis.

I disagree and present facts as to why you're wrong.

This process repeats itself until I get fed up, restate my facts and also point you to places where we've had the conversation before.

You start calling me names, question whether or not I'm an actual student and still cannot accept the fact that you could possibly be incorrect about something you have no knowledge about and of which I have firsthand knowledge.

I don't come here to be "nice." I come here to give people accurate information about Boalt and the law school process and also to attempt to dispel the myriad rumors on TLS about Boalt, rumors that you consistently spread.


So I am not allowed to post my personal opinions? Please understand the nature of a forum, you are not more correct no matter how much you want it to be. Maybe what I say is wrong, but I never claimed it to be right by citing sources/knowledge that I can't back up. You are right opinions, there are many of them, that's what makes this country correct. I don't quote budget meetings that may or may not exist, or speeches and quotes that may or may not have happened. As a matter of fact, I never based anything I said on any facts. I have a voice, and I don't have a problem using it. Feel free to call me wrong, but stop being abusive.

What makes your opinions so valid, with no proven factual basis. You may well have the right facts, but you are appearing as an anonymous person on an Internet forum does not do anything to establish the credibility that you claim.

I tried to ask you questions politely on PM and you ignore me.

You are the one calling me names and use coarse language toward me. I repeated said I have no interest in arguing with you due to your lack of manners and respect, and you chase me around like a rapid dog. Yet when I write you nicely, you don't respond.

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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:45 pm

By the way, how is this for irony - this is exactly my concern about Boalt and you couldn't have said it better yourself in July 2010. Oh how the time has passed


bilbobaggins wrote:To all those accepted: Have fun paying $52k in 2013 :cry:


You sir, are full of something unpleasant.

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mrmangs
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby mrmangs » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:53 am

Philly, this isn't one sided. Why don't you both just agree to ignore each other? Thanks.

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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:55 am

mrmangs wrote:Philly, this isn't one sided. Why don't you both just agree to ignore each other? Thanks.


Ok. I said what I want.

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:59 am

r6_philly wrote:So do a lot of people at Boalt go for SA positions, and how competitive is it? I have the understanding that a lot of folks are PI minded, so less people are competing for SA positions right?


I think it's a bit misleading to take Boalt's PI focus as mitigating the competition for firm jobs. I believe the majority of Boalt students still want to (and will eventually) work firm jobs. Many enter school thinking they want nothing to do with firms but change their minds over time; others have always wanted it. As for the 1L SA positions, it's super super competitive. A few people have sealed the deal and others have had callbacks, but the firms are giving a certain spiel to lots of applicants -- "don't get your hopes up, because this is a very competitive process and we really can't hire but a few 1L's."

Dec. 1st deadlines for big firm jobs is kind of a joke. A few will hire without grades (especially if you have a relevant advanced degree or relevant work experience, which I don't), but the grand majority want to wait until your exams come back. I didn't apply for a single job until early January and still got a few firm interviews. But don't listen to me too closely, because I still don't have a job yet. :D

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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:40 am

Tangerine Gleam wrote:
r6_philly wrote:So do a lot of people at Boalt go for SA positions, and how competitive is it? I have the understanding that a lot of folks are PI minded, so less people are competing for SA positions right?


I think it's a bit misleading to take Boalt's PI focus as mitigating the competition for firm jobs. I believe the majority of Boalt students still want to (and will eventually) work firm jobs. Many enter school thinking they want nothing to do with firms but change their minds over time; others have always wanted it. As for the 1L SA positions, it's super super competitive. A few people have sealed the deal and others have had callbacks, but the firms are giving a certain spiel to lots of applicants -- "don't get your hopes up, because this is a very competitive process and we really can't hire but a few 1L's."

Dec. 1st deadlines for big firm jobs is kind of a joke. A few will hire without grades (especially if you have a relevant advanced degree or relevant work experience, which I don't), but the grand majority want to wait until your exams come back. I didn't apply for a single job until early January and still got a few firm interviews. But don't listen to me too closely, because I still don't have a job yet. :D


Got it, thanks. Good luck with the summer search!

I would rather spend my 1L summer here in Philly. If I find a position and return for the summer, would that hurt my chances for 2L summer firm search in Cali? My intention is to stay out in the Bay Area/SV after graduation.

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Kronk
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Kronk » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:13 pm

r6_philly wrote:
Tangerine Gleam wrote:
r6_philly wrote:So do a lot of people at Boalt go for SA positions, and how competitive is it? I have the understanding that a lot of folks are PI minded, so less people are competing for SA positions right?


I think it's a bit misleading to take Boalt's PI focus as mitigating the competition for firm jobs. I believe the majority of Boalt students still want to (and will eventually) work firm jobs. Many enter school thinking they want nothing to do with firms but change their minds over time; others have always wanted it. As for the 1L SA positions, it's super super competitive. A few people have sealed the deal and others have had callbacks, but the firms are giving a certain spiel to lots of applicants -- "don't get your hopes up, because this is a very competitive process and we really can't hire but a few 1L's."

Dec. 1st deadlines for big firm jobs is kind of a joke. A few will hire without grades (especially if you have a relevant advanced degree or relevant work experience, which I don't), but the grand majority want to wait until your exams come back. I didn't apply for a single job until early January and still got a few firm interviews. But don't listen to me too closely, because I still don't have a job yet. :D


Got it, thanks. Good luck with the summer search!

I would rather spend my 1L summer here in Philly. If I find a position and return for the summer, would that hurt my chances for 2L summer firm search in Cali? My intention is to stay out in the Bay Area/SV after graduation.


I'm only a 1L, but I don't get the impression that it would hurt your options in California. The only thing that getting a job in California the first summer might do for you is give you connections within that firm that you could use to work a second summer there and eventually get a job, but beyond that and any other minor connections you might gain from working in the Bay Area your first summer, there wouldn't be any negative effects if you conveyed your interest to firms to be in California after school during OCIP.

Mostly educated conjecture, as I haven't OCIP'd.

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bilbobaggins
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby bilbobaggins » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:17 pm

r6_philly wrote:So I am not allowed to post my personal opinions? Please understand the nature of a forum, you are not more correct no matter how much you want it to be. Maybe what I say is wrong, but I never claimed it to be right by citing sources/knowledge that I can't back up. You are right opinions, there are many of them, that's what makes this country correct. I don't quote budget meetings that may or may not exist, or speeches and quotes that may or may not have happened. As a matter of fact, I never based anything I said on any facts. I have a voice, and I don't have a problem using it. Feel free to call me wrong, but stop being abusive.

What makes your opinions so valid, with no proven factual basis. You may well have the right facts, but you are appearing as an anonymous person on an Internet forum does not do anything to establish the credibility that you claim.

I tried to ask you questions politely on PM and you ignore me.

You are the one calling me names and use coarse language toward me. I repeated said I have no interest in arguing with you due to your lack of manners and respect, and you chase me around like a rapid dog. Yet when I write you nicely, you don't respond.


It is really hard for me to understand how you think it's appropriate to give people advice on where to go to law school when you have no idea what you're talking about. Sure, you're allowed to say whatever you want, but as someone who goes to the school you're constantly misrepresenting on TLS, I'm going to correct you. If you don't like the response you get when you write bullshit about my law school then stop writing the bullshit. It's really that simple. If you want to continue to post factually incorrect "personal opinions" then go right ahead, but it's really not appropriate to mislead people in their law school search when you have no clue what you're talking about.

On TLS, most 0Ls acknowledge that actual students at the school being discussed are more knowledgeable about things like budget, job prospects, etc. simply because it's difficult to have all of the facts about these areas without going to the school. Many 0Ls on TLS are humble enough to understand that. This isn't simply a situation of two opinions, neither of which is more correct. Many of your thoughts on Boalt are demonstrably false. Unfortunately, much of the data isn't online, which is why TLS encourages current students and alums to post about their schools- we can provide you with what we know about the school so that you don't have to make your law school decisions based on the uninformed opinions of other 0Ls. For some reason, you've decided you'd prefer to act like you know what you're talking about instead of listening to the people who are in much better positions to give accurate info on the subject of the law school they attend.

Ultimately, I think it's unfortunate that you truly believe your uninformed perspective is just as valid as the the perspective of someone well placed to have information about what you're discussing. It's also unfortunate that you seem to take it so personally when people respond negatively to your random opinions.

And, as you've pointed out, I'm not simply a Boalt cheerleader. When it makes sense to point out something negative about Boalt I have no problem doing that. This is what I propose: You stop commenting about stuff regarding Boalt that you don't have enough facts about to have an informed opinion and I stop "abusing" you. Deal?

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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby d34d9823 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:19 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:rant rant rant

Didn't we tell you guys to shut up already?

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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:20 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
bilbobaggins wrote:rant rant rant

Didn't we tell you guys to shut up already?


I'm following that advice.

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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:22 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:This is what I propose: You stop commenting about stuff regarding Boalt that you don't have enough facts about to have an informed opinion and I stop "abusing" you. Deal?


No. Feel free to disagree and dispel. I won't argue.

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Dayan114
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Dayan114 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:33 pm

Right.

So I understand that you can take something like 2 courses from anywhere in the University toward the JD--anyone have experience with this? Sounds like a nice perk.

As a young newlywed, I'd also like to know--any other marrieds out there? Are there opportunities for SOs to meet other law school widow/ers?

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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:38 pm

Dayan114 wrote:Right.

So I understand that you can take something like 2 courses from anywhere in the University toward the JD--anyone have experience with this? Sounds like a nice perk.

As a young newlywed, I'd also like to know--any other marrieds out there? Are there opportunities for SOs to meet other law school widow/ers?


Actually you can transfer up to 10 units from other schools (not just at Berkeley) if you can convince the Dean of Students - leaving the option open for custom combined degrees.

My wife will be a stay at home mom. Quite a few potentials have SOs, I think a support group will form.

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Rotor
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Rotor » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:17 pm

Dayan114 wrote:Right.

So I understand that you can take something like 2 courses from anywhere in the University toward the JD--anyone have experience with this? Sounds like a nice perk.

As a young newlywed, I'd also like to know--any other marrieds out there? Are there opportunities for SOs to meet other law school widow/ers?

Other classes: it is very much possible. I haven't been so lucky with it though. Each semester, I've looked to see about a Goldman School class with Robert Reich. They've either been full or UG only so far. Maybe next semester I'll get lucky.

As for married folks: there are quite a few of us. There's also a group called the OWLS (Older Wiser Law Students) that tends to have a higher concentration of married folks. I think there is a nominal minimum age for membership, but we pretty much ignore it if you're willing to hang out with the "more life experienced" crowd.

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forward
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby forward » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:44 pm

r6_philly wrote:
Tangerine Gleam wrote:
r6_philly wrote:So do a lot of people at Boalt go for SA positions, and how competitive is it? I have the understanding that a lot of folks are PI minded, so less people are competing for SA positions right?


I think it's a bit misleading to take Boalt's PI focus as mitigating the competition for firm jobs. I believe the majority of Boalt students still want to (and will eventually) work firm jobs. Many enter school thinking they want nothing to do with firms but change their minds over time; others have always wanted it. As for the 1L SA positions, it's super super competitive. A few people have sealed the deal and others have had callbacks, but the firms are giving a certain spiel to lots of applicants -- "don't get your hopes up, because this is a very competitive process and we really can't hire but a few 1L's."

Dec. 1st deadlines for big firm jobs is kind of a joke. A few will hire without grades (especially if you have a relevant advanced degree or relevant work experience, which I don't), but the grand majority want to wait until your exams come back. I didn't apply for a single job until early January and still got a few firm interviews. But don't listen to me too closely, because I still don't have a job yet. :D


Got it, thanks. Good luck with the summer search!

I would rather spend my 1L summer here in Philly. If I find a position and return for the summer, would that hurt my chances for 2L summer firm search in Cali? My intention is to stay out in the Bay Area/SV after graduation.


My understanding is that those who have spent 1L summer OOS have had residency applications denied lately. Perhaps one of the Boalties can speak to this, but that's what I've heard. Not sure if you were planning on the residency tuition break for 2/3L, but if you were...

r6_philly
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby r6_philly » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:53 pm

forward wrote:My understanding is that those who have spent 1L summer OOS have had residency applications denied lately. Perhaps one of the Boalties can speak to this, but that's what I've heard. Not sure if you were planning on the residency tuition break for 2/3L, but if you were...


Yes I thought about this. Definite would suck since we really would be moving, dragging the kids across the country and intend on staying.

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worldtraveler
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby worldtraveler » Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:45 pm

I have taken classes outside the law school. You need a petition to get them to count. The likelihood is this being approved is all dependent on what the class is, who you are, and why you're taking it. It has to be other a graduate class or an upper-level language class, which counts for half the credits.

As for residency, if you go back to your home state for the summer, you're probably screwed. If you work elsewhere, it depends. If you do a job that is not available in CA (like working at the UN), you can probably still get residency. If you work for a local DA's office elsewhere, not so likely.

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Tanicius
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Tanicius » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:37 am

tag

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Tanicius
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby Tanicius » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:10 pm

Okay, is there anyone who knows anything about PI prospects at Berkeley? I'm looking for firsthand knowledge.

The one thing that attracts me to Berkeley above any other school is its proximity to some fantastic PI jobs, like the San Fran defenders. Does anyone have any firsthand accounts of people getting jobs at the SFPD office, or internships at least?

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bilbobaggins
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Re: Boalt 1Ls taking questions

Postby bilbobaggins » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:32 pm

Tanicius wrote:Okay, is there anyone who knows anything about PI prospects at Berkeley? I'm looking for firsthand knowledge.

The one thing that attracts me to Berkeley above any other school is its proximity to some fantastic PI jobs, like the San Fran defenders. Does anyone have any firsthand accounts of people getting jobs at the SFPD office, or internships at least?


Many Boalt students extern at all of the PD offices in the Bay Area, both during the year and the summer. The SF office is definitely competitive, but many Boalt students work there. Luckily, Boalt is also in/near two other great counties, Alameda and Contra Costa and many students work in these offices as well.

It is extremely difficult to get a PD job in the bay area upon graduation. It is essentially impossible to get one in SF without prior experience as a defense attorney. The first job out of Boalt usually starts with a paid law clerk position (if you're lucky). After passing the bar, you'd be eligible to become a misdemeanor attorney and hopefully this happens before the year law clerk position is up (or at the end of it).

Personally, I'm planning for the reality of having to get a PD job in a county other than Coco, Alameda, SF or Santa Clara. I figure I will work my way back to one of them. If you have any other specific questions about PD work feel free to message me.




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