G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

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dudders
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby dudders » Mon May 16, 2011 8:32 am

schooner wrote:This is a great thread. To the current GW students contributing their wisdom here, thank you so much.

Could one of you explain how the grade curving system works? For example, I understand that a 1L student's GPA is *ranked* relative to all other 1Ls, including the part-time students. But what is the group of students to which a particular class grade is *curved* - all the students just in the class, the student's whole section, or the entire 1L cohort?

I had asked the school about this, and the reply I got is that a 1L's class grade is curved relative to all students in the cohort. But that doesn't make sense for several reasons, and I wonder if he thought I was asking about rankings. Could someone explain?


I'm not sure what difference between a "cohort" and a "section" is ...

But anyway for 1Ls, grades are curved within each course you're taking. This is usually your entire 1L section. You have one small-section class in fall, with 30-40 people from your larger section - that class is curved based on just the small-section, I believe. I keep hearing conflicting information about how they curve LRW - the LRW program itself gets and releases all the grades and does something they call "normalizing" them across sections. This is either curving, or just making sure the students with especially high/low grading adjunct professors don't get a total windfall/raped. The program claims you're curved within your LRW section (12 students) according to the small seminar relaxed curve (for 2L/3L classes <32 students). Basically 4 people can get As instead of 3.

In short, your class is curved to whatever class you're in. The rankings GW gives are based solely on GPA (which is obviously uniform across sections - how much grades are worth in calculations is not affected by the curve).

schooner
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby schooner » Mon May 16, 2011 9:41 am

dudders wrote:
schooner wrote:This is a great thread. To the current GW students contributing their wisdom here, thank you so much.

Could one of you explain how the grade curving system works? For example, I understand that a 1L student's GPA is *ranked* relative to all other 1Ls, including the part-time students. But what is the group of students to which a particular class grade is *curved* - all the students just in the class, the student's whole section, or the entire 1L cohort?

I had asked the school about this, and the reply I got is that a 1L's class grade is curved relative to all students in the cohort. But that doesn't make sense for several reasons, and I wonder if he thought I was asking about rankings. Could someone explain?


I'm not sure what difference between a "cohort" and a "section" is ...

But anyway for 1Ls, grades are curved within each course you're taking. This is usually your entire 1L section. You have one small-section class in fall, with 30-40 people from your larger section - that class is curved based on just the small-section, I believe. I keep hearing conflicting information about how they curve LRW - the LRW program itself gets and releases all the grades and does something they call "normalizing" them across sections. This is either curving, or just making sure the students with especially high/low grading adjunct professors don't get a total windfall/raped. The program claims you're curved within your LRW section (12 students) according to the small seminar relaxed curve (for 2L/3L classes <32 students). Basically 4 people can get As instead of 3.

In short, your class is curved to whatever class you're in. The rankings GW gives are based solely on GPA (which is obviously uniform across sections - how much grades are worth in calculations is not affected by the curve).


Great, thank you for this answer!

sofarfromfriday
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby sofarfromfriday » Mon May 16, 2011 1:47 pm

...

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Teoeo
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby Teoeo » Mon May 16, 2011 7:25 pm

dood wrote:Schooner - ur right. school must have misunderstood ur Q. Curved by section, ranked in entire class.

PROTIP: section 15 curve is easier.


+1 15 is easier, I wish I had opted in. On a seperate note, Schooner, your name is amazingly ironic :D

schooner
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby schooner » Mon May 16, 2011 8:09 pm

Teoeo wrote:
dood wrote:Schooner - ur right. school must have misunderstood ur Q. Curved by section, ranked in entire class.

PROTIP: section 15 curve is easier.


+1 15 is easier, I wish I had opted in. On a seperate note, Schooner, your name is amazingly ironic :D


Is Section 15 easier because the part time students are mixed in? How are the evening students regarded at GW? Do they generally do well or are they just trying to keep their head above the water?

Speaking of keeping your head above the water, what happens to the students who always end up on the wrong end of the curve - i.e., are there horror stories on campus about alumni who don't get any jobs anywhere?

By the way, LOL about my name :D I had picked it because I liked the idea of sailing away to a tropical paradise. (Yes, I do laugh at myself for dreaming about being rich enough one day to own my own sailboat.) I didn't realize there's a professor at GW Law named Schooner until I started poking around in the faculty directory yesterday.

schooner
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby schooner » Tue May 17, 2011 7:48 pm

Sorry for the newbie 0L questions. I've heard this advice from several people already: increase your typing speed. I also read elsewhere on TLS that law school exams are graded on a point basis so that the more "credited responses" you say, the more points you get. Is that true at most schools? (Well, I guess I care only if that's the case at GW.) So that's why being able to type faster matters, so you can bang out a longer exam quicker, right? Or is the typing tip for taking notes on your laptop in class?

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Corwin
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby Corwin » Tue May 17, 2011 10:15 pm

1.) What's the attitude of students like towards each other? How common is it for people to collaborate and study together?

2.) I noticed GW doesn't give class rank, only large ranges. Is there no way of knowing where you stand in the 1-15% for example?

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Teoeo
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby Teoeo » Tue May 17, 2011 10:32 pm

Corwin wrote:1.) What's the attitude of students like towards each other? How common is it for people to collaborate and study together?

2.) I noticed GW doesn't give class rank, only large ranges. Is there no way of knowing where you stand in the 1-15% for example?



1. Very positive, and yes, people work together all the time.
2. Not sure ><

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mi-chan17
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby mi-chan17 » Sat May 21, 2011 10:08 am

schooner wrote:Sorry for the newbie 0L questions. I've heard this advice from several people already: increase your typing speed. I also read elsewhere on TLS that law school exams are graded on a point basis so that the more "credited responses" you say, the more points you get. Is that true at most schools? (Well, I guess I care only if that's the case at GW.) So that's why being able to type faster matters, so you can bang out a longer exam quicker, right? Or is the typing tip for taking notes on your laptop in class?


I don't take notes via computer, but if you plan on doing so then being able to type faster is probably a good thing. Beyond that, though, typing quickly DEFINITELY helps come exam day. A lot of exams are just like you described (the more issues you spot and talk about, the more points you get), and someone who types 100 wpm will be able to discuss more than the person who types 10 wpm. Even on the exams with word limits quick typing is a plus; it gives you more time to go back and refine your answer, since you want to use those words as best you can.

Corwin wrote:1.) What's the attitude of students like towards each other? How common is it for people to collaborate and study together?

2.) I noticed GW doesn't give class rank, only large ranges. Is there no way of knowing where you stand in the 1-15% for example?


1. I have yet to meet anyone at GW who wasn't friendly. It's a great environment. And collaborating/studying/mooting etc. together was really common in the fulltime day sections. It might be harder for the PT'ers, just because their schedules are tighter.

2. Well, not NO way. But no way to know for interviews or anything, yeah. If you're near the top of the class uou get a more specific rank at graduation (where the honors are determined differently than they are for our transcripts). Your transcript would only have your designation (GW Scholar or Thurgood Marshall Scholar) and your band (1-15% or 16-35%). Only those top two bands get ranked - ie. it only shows up on your transcript if you're in the top third or so.

schooner
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby schooner » Sat May 21, 2011 12:00 pm

mi-chan17, this info is super helpful. THANK YOU!!!

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Teoeo
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby Teoeo » Mon May 23, 2011 1:36 pm

I guess we are going to have to change the title of the thread now that we aren't 1L's xD

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haus
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby haus » Mon May 23, 2011 2:56 pm

Teoeo wrote:I guess we are going to have to change the title of the thread now that we aren't 1L's xD


Congrats on surviving the 1L experience. :)

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Teoeo
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby Teoeo » Mon May 23, 2011 8:11 pm

haus wrote:
Teoeo wrote:I guess we are going to have to change the title of the thread now that we aren't 1L's xD


Congrats on surviving the 1L experience. :)


TY, it wasn't THAT bad...

schooner
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby schooner » Wed May 25, 2011 9:55 am

So, 1L-3Ls, if you're paying sticker and/or incurring major debt for GW, do you now think it is worth it?

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sky7
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby sky7 » Wed May 25, 2011 10:29 am

The median at GW is a 3.2, so a 3.0 requirement doesn't even require that you be in the top half of your class. One of the professors at GW stated that approximately 70% of students have a 3.0 or above.


Where did you get the 3.2 from? I've never actually seen it written anywhere.

primetime2131
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby primetime2131 » Wed May 25, 2011 11:00 am

schooner wrote:So, 1L-3Ls, if you're paying sticker and/or incurring major debt for GW, do you now think it is worth it?


+1

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mi-chan17
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby mi-chan17 » Wed May 25, 2011 5:53 pm

sky7 wrote:
The median at GW is a 3.2, so a 3.0 requirement doesn't even require that you be in the top half of your class. One of the professors at GW stated that approximately 70% of students have a 3.0 or above.


Where did you get the 3.2 from? I've never actually seen it written anywhere.


It's somewhere in the school's literature, but the thing that really hammered it into my head were the professor's talking about it. Since I can't recall where the median is printed, I've posted a comment made by a GW Prof. on his blog (following the NYT article about GPA stipulations at law schools):

"It is describing GW Law School, the school where I teach, which is specifically mentioned in the article as one of the schools that allegedly engages in this practice. GW’s curve is about a 3.2, and according to the story, it uses a cutoff of 3.0 for students to keep merit scholarships"

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Corwin
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby Corwin » Thu May 26, 2011 3:36 pm

schooner wrote:So, 1L-3Ls, if you're paying sticker and/or incurring major debt for GW, do you now think it is worth it?

I think the answer to the question is simply a function of L1 grades.

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queenlizzie13
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby queenlizzie13 » Fri May 27, 2011 3:43 pm

Corwin wrote:
schooner wrote:So, 1L-3Ls, if you're paying sticker and/or incurring major debt for GW, do you now think it is worth it?

I think the answer to the question is simply a function of L1 grades.


What about for people who want to do government work? Would paying sticker be even more of a bad idea given that = harder to pay back loans correct?

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Teoeo
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby Teoeo » Sun May 29, 2011 1:12 am

queenlizzie13 wrote:
Corwin wrote:
schooner wrote:So, 1L-3Ls, if you're paying sticker and/or incurring major debt for GW, do you now think it is worth it?

I think the answer to the question is simply a function of L1 grades.


What about for people who want to do government work? Would paying sticker be even more of a bad idea given that = harder to pay back loans correct?


IBR

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haus
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby haus » Sun May 29, 2011 9:36 am

Teoeo wrote:IBR


Assuming IBR survives the upcoming budget battles.

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mi-chan17
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby mi-chan17 » Sun May 29, 2011 9:43 am

haus wrote:
Teoeo wrote:IBR


Assuming IBR survives the upcoming budget battles.


If I recall correctly, IBR is up for renewal (or destruction) in 2014, which means that the next few classes should still be able to count on it. Even if it's cancelled, though of us already in school will be grandfathered in.

schooner
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby schooner » Sun May 29, 2011 10:29 am

mi-chan17 wrote:
haus wrote:
Teoeo wrote:IBR


Assuming IBR survives the upcoming budget battles.


If I recall correctly, IBR is up for renewal (or destruction) in 2014, which means that the next few classes should still be able to count on it. Even if it's cancelled, though of us already in school will be grandfathered in.


Is this the same as LRAP? I thought GW's LRAP was extremely limited compared to those of higher ranked schools, i.e., it covers jobs in only public defender's and indigent legal aid offices.

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Teoeo
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby Teoeo » Sun May 29, 2011 10:32 am

schooner wrote:
mi-chan17 wrote:
haus wrote:
Teoeo wrote:IBR


Assuming IBR survives the upcoming budget battles.


If I recall correctly, IBR is up for renewal (or destruction) in 2014, which means that the next few classes should still be able to count on it. Even if it's cancelled, though of us already in school will be grandfathered in.


Is this the same as LRAP? I thought GW's LRAP was extremely limited compared to those of higher ranked schools, i.e., it covers jobs in only public defender's and indigent legal aid offices.


No, IBR is through the federal government, not through the school. Here is a link: http://www.finaid.org/loans/ibr.phtml. For more detailed information do a search on TLS.

edit: make sure to look at http://www.finaid.org/loans/publicservice.phtml specifically.

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haus
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Re: G.W. 1L Ready to take questions

Postby haus » Sun May 29, 2011 11:15 am

mi-chan17 wrote: Even if it's cancelled, though of us already in school will be grandfathered in.


While it is likely, it is not guaranteed. Federal aid programs have changed in the middle of the game for many in the past, and there is nothing that would prevent it from happening to students in the future.




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