university of british columbia / UBC

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kirsi
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university of british columbia / UBC

Postby kirsi » Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:18 pm

hi all -

forgive me if there is a thread about this school already but i haven't been able to find one really so far...

i am looking to enter law school in fall 2011 and UBC has come up in my search. however, i've never been to vancouver (or anywhere close to it) and don't know what the school is like, what students think of it, job prospects for graduating law students, what housing is like, whether or not it is recommended to have a car there, etc. just the basic stuff. i also have heard/read some stuff about their courses about law in asia, which might be interesting for me as my undergrad degrees are in japanese and east asian studies. not that i am particularly interested in that area of law...

any comments, insight, or whatever would be helpful and greatly appreciated. thanks :D

PS. I live in Ohio and am planning on applying to various schools here, but I have been reading about how they are "regional" and I 1) don't care really to live here for the rest of my life and 2) have OSU as my #1 ohio school choice and don't really feel like going back there for another three years. and i hear great things about vancouver in general and it looks beautiful. :P

Mal
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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby Mal » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:30 am

kirsi wrote:hi all -

forgive me if there is a thread about this school already but i haven't been able to find one really so far...

i am looking to enter law school in fall 2011 and UBC has come up in my search. however, i've never been to vancouver (or anywhere close to it) and don't know what the school is like, what students think of it, job prospects for graduating law students, what housing is like, whether or not it is recommended to have a car there, etc. just the basic stuff. i also have heard/read some stuff about their courses about law in asia, which might be interesting for me as my undergrad degrees are in japanese and east asian studies. not that i am particularly interested in that area of law...

any comments, insight, or whatever would be helpful and greatly appreciated. thanks :D

PS. I live in Ohio and am planning on applying to various schools here, but I have been reading about how they are "regional" and I 1) don't care really to live here for the rest of my life and 2) have OSU as my #1 ohio school choice and don't really feel like going back there for another three years. and i hear great things about vancouver in general and it looks beautiful. :P


No Canadian school is ABA approved. If you go to a Canadian school it may not be possible to go back to many places in the states.

There are no 160k jobs in Canada at all. Biglaw in Canada starts at 50k/yr to article in Vancouver, and goes up to 90k/yr the year later.

Going to a school in a foreign country because you don't want to live in Ohio anymore is retarded. Law school is not a vacation.

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General Tso
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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby General Tso » Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:41 am

just go to UW in Seattle....it's 2 hours south of Vancouver and it's approx. the same scenery

kirsi
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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby kirsi » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:18 am

Mal wrote:No Canadian school is ABA approved. If you go to a Canadian school it may not be possible to go back to many places in the states.

There are no 160k jobs in Canada at all. Biglaw in Canada starts at 50k/yr to article in Vancouver, and goes up to 90k/yr the year later.

Going to a school in a foreign country because you don't want to live in Ohio anymore is retarded. Law school is not a vacation.


Ok. But I never said I wanted to come back to the States necessairly. Obviously I have thought about these things a bit, at least...

And way to misinterpret what I said and be completely unhelpful.


Anyhow, I'm really looking for helpful comments about this school.

ajohnnie
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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby ajohnnie » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:41 am

You would have to check out their law school profile. Some Canadian law schools give degrees that allow you to practice in certain states. I think U of T, Osgoode, and McGill allow you to take the Mass and NY bar exam. Also, you might start at a lower salary ($50,000 vs. 1$60,000) but with tuition at like $7,000 / year it's not a bad deal. You should check the website too. They will tell you which states recognize a UBC degree as equivalent. I think most UBC students seeking to practice in the States would go to California. But if you do plan on going back to the US it might be hard as UBC alumnia are all mainly located in BC with maybe some in Asia.

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youpiiz
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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby youpiiz » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:55 am

for one sec i thought it was university of birth control.

scf
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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby scf » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:59 am

IMO Vancouver is one of the most beautiful cities in the world. I considered UBC since I have a decent number of family connections in Vancouver. I think they are getting a brand new law building either this year or next. The above poster is right though . . . if you get a Canadian degree you are committing to working in only Canada for a while unless you get a JD from a US school later (UBC does a program with University of Hawaii where you can get bot ha a Candaian law degree and a JD over four years, though idk how competitive it is to get into the program). From an outsider's perspective though, Vancouver is such a large city with only one law school (I think its #4 in Canada) and there are a lot worse places you could end up. Keep in mind though that the average price for a home i nthe city is about $1 million dollars.

kirsi
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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby kirsi » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:33 am

scf wrote:IMO Vancouver is one of the most beautiful cities in the world. I considered UBC since I have a decent number of family connections in Vancouver. I think they are getting a brand new law building either this year or next. The above poster is right though . . . if you get a Canadian degree you are committing to working in only Canada for a while unless you get a JD from a US school later (UBC does a program with University of Hawaii where you can get bot ha a Candaian law degree and a JD over four years, though idk how competitive it is to get into the program). From an outsider's perspective though, Vancouver is such a large city with only one law school (I think its #4 in Canada) and there are a lot worse places you could end up. Keep in mind though that the average price for a home i nthe city is about $1 million dollars.


wow, that's interesting - i'll definitely have to look for that on their website. somehow after many hours on it i still haven't seen that! [yay google. found it]

thanks for your input.

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General Tso
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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby General Tso » Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:35 pm

kirsi wrote:
scf wrote:IMO Vancouver is one of the most beautiful cities in the world. I considered UBC since I have a decent number of family connections in Vancouver. I think they are getting a brand new law building either this year or next. The above poster is right though . . . if you get a Canadian degree you are committing to working in only Canada for a while unless you get a JD from a US school later (UBC does a program with University of Hawaii where you can get bot ha a Candaian law degree and a JD over four years, though idk how competitive it is to get into the program). From an outsider's perspective though, Vancouver is such a large city with only one law school (I think its #4 in Canada) and there are a lot worse places you could end up. Keep in mind though that the average price for a home i nthe city is about $1 million dollars.


wow, that's interesting - i'll definitely have to look for that on their website. somehow after many hours on it i still haven't seen that! [yay google. found it]

thanks for your input.


employers are not likely to look favorably on these kinds of dual degrees. US firms will say, "so when are you leaving for Canada?" Canadian firms will say, "so when are you leaving for the US?" Sure you can orally state your intentions but there it is on paper that you have considered working in another country strongly enough that you spent the time and money on getting 2 degrees. And why would they take the risk when they have 20 other qualified applicants' resumes on their desk?

UBC is hard to get into. I believe 3.6/166+ would make you a strong candidate. With numbers like those you'd be looking at T30 in the US easy. And UBC is probably the 4th or 5th best school in Canada. If you have T30 numbers, do you really want a U of Hawaii JD on your resume? That is not a strong law school, and there are few jobs in its home market.

And the above poster is mistaken. There are two law schools in British Columbia -- UBC and Victoria.

I understand the desire to jet set off to all these exotic locations while making bank, but I do not consider a legal field the best for this kind of lifestyle. Do an MBA and apply at multinational companies for positions that require a lot of travel. Last time I checked you don't need a Canadian MBA to work in Canada. And it's 2 years not 4 (actually, more like 5 or 6, or however long it takes to article in Canada).

bschroeder
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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby bschroeder » Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:07 pm

General Tso wrote:
kirsi wrote:
scf wrote:IMO Vancouver is one of the most beautiful cities in the world. I considered UBC since I have a decent number of family connections in Vancouver. I think they are getting a brand new law building either this year or next. The above poster is right though . . . if you get a Canadian degree you are committing to working in only Canada for a while unless you get a JD from a US school later (UBC does a program with University of Hawaii where you can get bot ha a Candaian law degree and a JD over four years, though idk how competitive it is to get into the program). From an outsider's perspective though, Vancouver is such a large city with only one law school (I think its #4 in Canada) and there are a lot worse places you could end up. Keep in mind though that the average price for a home i nthe city is about $1 million dollars.


wow, that's interesting - i'll definitely have to look for that on their website. somehow after many hours on it i still haven't seen that! [yay google. found it]

thanks for your input.


employers are not likely to look favorably on these kinds of dual degrees. US firms will say, "so when are you leaving for Canada?" Canadian firms will say, "so when are you leaving for the US?" Sure you can orally state your intentions but there it is on paper that you have considered working in another country strongly enough that you spent the time and money on getting 2 degrees. And why would they take the risk when they have 20 other qualified applicants' resumes on their desk?

UBC is hard to get into. I believe 3.6/166+ would make you a strong candidate. With numbers like those you'd be looking at T30 in the US easy. And UBC is probably the 4th or 5th best school in Canada. If you have T30 numbers, do you really want a U of Hawaii JD on your resume? That is not a strong law school, and there are few jobs in its home market.

And the above poster is mistaken. There are two law schools in British Columbia -- UBC and Victoria.

I understand the desire to jet set off to all these exotic locations while making bank, but I do not consider a legal field the best for this kind of lifestyle. Do an MBA and apply at multinational companies for positions that require a lot of travel. Last time I checked you don't need a Canadian MBA to work in Canada. And it's 2 years not 4 (actually, more like 5 or 6, or however long it takes to article in Canada).


"do you really want a U of Hawaii JD on your resume? That is not a strong law school, and there are few jobs in its home market."

I'd disagree. I think Hawaii is a very strong school and places its graduates very well throughout Hawaii, the Pacific States (WA OR, CA) and Asia. Even within Seattle, Hawaii has a very strong reputation among many hiring partners. Just because a school is not listed among the T30 does not mean it isn't strong.

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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby General Tso » Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:09 pm

bschroeder wrote:
"do you really want a U of Hawaii JD on your resume? That is not a strong law school, and there are few jobs in its home market."

I'd disagree. I think Hawaii is a very strong school and places its graduates very well throughout Hawaii, the Pacific States (WA OR, CA) and Asia. Even within Seattle, Hawaii has a very strong reputation among many hiring partners. Just because a school is not listed among the T30 does not mean it isn't strong.


Martindale lists 69 out of 1000 Hawaii alumni working in CA. CA's legal job market is probably 10-20x as large as Oregon and Washington combined. So you are talking about at best 10% of Hawaii grads working in Pacific region.

Globl.org lists the following destination cities for Hawaii graduates who have passed the CA bar:
San Diego - 11 attorneys
LA - 9
SF - 8
San Jose - 3

http://californiabar.globl.org/report.p ... 0&g=2&pp=5

That placement is atrocious given that these are the most logical mainland destinations for Hawaii grads. A Hawaii JD is decidedly NOT portable.

This is what you should do with T30 (maybe T20) quality numbers? OP - if you want to go to law school, decide whether you want to work in the US or Canada. Then go to the best school for you. This dual degree/Hawaii talk is nonsense.

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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby General Tso » Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:15 pm

bschroeder wrote: Even within Seattle, Hawaii has a very strong reputation among many hiring partners.


Here's a complete list of all SIX Hawaii grads working in Seattle (and judging by their names, I am assuming that Mandarin or Japanese language skills are a big reason why).

Name: Lisa Mei Tomita Oshiro
Peer Review Rated
Client Review Rated
Documents
Job Title: I.R.S.
Office: Seattle, Washington (King Co.)

Compare

Name: Leo C. Peng
Peer Review Rated
Client Review Rated
Documents
Job Title: Owner
Organization: Garvey Schubert Barer
Practice Areas: Immigration Law; International Law
Office: Seattle, Washington (King Co.)

Compare


Name: Won-Han Cheng
Peer Review Rated
Client Review Rated
Documents
Job Title: Partner
Organization: K&L Gates LLP
Practice Areas: Taxation
Office: Seattle, Washington (King Co.)

Compare

Name: Kiera M. Silva
Peer Review Rated
Client Review Rated
Documents
Job Title: Associate
Organization: Mullin Law Group, PLLC
Office: Seattle, Washington (King Co.)

Compare

Name: Sieu K. Che
Peer Review Rated
Client Review Rated
Documents
Job Title: Associate
Organization: K&L Gates LLP
Practice Areas: Labor and Employment(100%)
Office: Seattle, Washington (King Co.)

Compare

Name: Karla J. Axell
Peer Review Rated
Client Review Rated
Documents
Job Title: Associate
Organization: Perkins Coie LLP
Practice Areas: Litigation; Natural Resources; Environmental Law
Office: Seattle, Washington (King Co.)

Compare

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remotelyfeasible
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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby remotelyfeasible » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:11 am

Mal wrote:No Canadian school is ABA approved. If you go to a Canadian school it may not be possible to go back to many places in the states.


Truth. You can write, I believe CA and NY. Actually, I believe Skadden and a few other big NYC shops do OCI at UBC.

Mal wrote:There are no 160k jobs in Canada at all. Biglaw in Canada starts at 50k/yr to article in Vancouver, and goes up to 90k/yr the year later.


To be fair, you only article for one year, and then salary jumps to something around 80k the next year. Think of it like doing a clerkship po-stgraduation.

Not to mention, nobody goes into the schools OP mentioned expecting biglaw 160k. Or, at least, they shouldn't.

Mal wrote:Going to a school in a foreign country because you don't want to live in Ohio anymore is retarded. Law school is not a vacation.


I don't know about retarded, but you should definitely look into whether you could stay in Canada after graduation. I don't know what their immigration policies are like, and how easy it is to get a work visa. (It is probably fairly easy, under NAFTA, but I'm not sure.)

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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby remotelyfeasible » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:13 am

General Tso wrote:Martindale lists 69 out of 1000 Hawaii alumni working in CA. CA's legal job market is probably 10-20x as large as Oregon and Washington combined. So you are talking about at best 10% of Hawaii grads working in Pacific region.

I would count Hawaii as being part of the "Pacific" region, if we're naming a region Pacific. Actually, so is Vancouver if you want to get international...

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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby General Tso » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:02 am

remotelyfeasible wrote:
General Tso wrote:Martindale lists 69 out of 1000 Hawaii alumni working in CA. CA's legal job market is probably 10-20x as large as Oregon and Washington combined. So you are talking about at best 10% of Hawaii grads working in Pacific region.

I would count Hawaii as being part of the "Pacific" region, if we're naming a region Pacific. Actually, so is Vancouver if you want to get international...


I meant CA, OR, WA.

Out of 992 Hawaii grads on Martindale:
69+8+19 = 96 grads in CA, OR, WA. (9.6%)
976/992 work in the US (98.3%)

Martindale doesn't list a single Hawaii grad working in Canada. 7 in Japan, 7 in Guam, 1 in Switzerland, and 1 in a US pacific territory.

The general rule is that non-T20 schools lack national or international mobility. Hawaii is no exception to that rule.

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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby Mal » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:21 am

ajohnnie wrote:You would have to check out their law school profile. Some Canadian law schools give degrees that allow you to practice in certain states. I think U of T, Osgoode, and McGill allow you to take the Mass and NY bar exam. Also, you might start at a lower salary ($50,000 vs. 1$60,000) but with tuition at like $7,000 / year it's not a bad deal. You should check the website too. They will tell you which states recognize a UBC degree as equivalent. I think most UBC students seeking to practice in the States would go to California. But if you do plan on going back to the US it might be hard as UBC alumnia are all mainly located in BC with maybe some in Asia.


This is full of misinformation. All Canadian law schools are exactly the same. NY and Mass. simply allow foreigners to write the bar. California allows you to write the bar if you are admitted to another state (such as NY).

Tuition is not $7k/yr. It is around $11k/yr for Canadians, for non-citizens it is like $24k/yr. Vancouver is also very expensive.

I was born, and raised in Vancouver. I was admitted to UBC during my cycle but decided to go to University of Alberta. I have nothing against it, or Canada. The response was hostile because the OP seemed to take immigrating to Canada very lightly. It is a huge deal, Canada is vastly different than the United States. Coming from the midwest to Vancouver would be a huge culture shock.

The OP has still never said serious reasons why they want to be in Canada. Vancouver is a beautiful city, likely one of the best in the world. But so are many others that are within the USA. Why not just go to University of Hawaii instead of the joint degree? Why not go to University of Washington? Seattle is very similar to Vancouver...

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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby byunbee » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:31 am

Mal wrote: It is a huge deal, Canada is vastly different than the United States. Coming from the midwest to Vancouver would be a huge culture shock.

Seattle is very similar to Vancouver...


Is Seattle not part of the US anymore?

But everything else you said is credited.

Mal
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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby Mal » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:39 am

byunbee wrote:
Mal wrote: It is a huge deal, Canada is vastly different than the United States. Coming from the midwest to Vancouver would be a huge culture shock.

Seattle is very similar to Vancouver...


Is Seattle not part of the US anymore?

But everything else you said is credited.


That was my point. You are far better off going to Seattle which is similar to Vancouver but in the United States. If you are pointing out the inconsistency in saying Canada is different than the USA and yet suggesting that Vancouver is similar to Seattle... Well, Seattle is as similar to Vancouver as an American city can be to a Canadian one. But they are still different countries that have very different values, and politics.

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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby MJMD » Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:25 pm

What a******y.

No Canadian school is ABA approved. If you go to a Canadian school it may not be possible to go back to many places in the states.


In the event that you end up graduating with only a UBC degree, the Mass. and N.Y. bar exams do remain open to you. Anyone with any kind of law degree from any country is free to try (and fail) to pass the N.Y. and Massachusetts state bar exams. California used to be the same way, but I hear that that's changed in recent years; so without an ABA-approved J.D. you're pretty much limited to N.Y. and Mass, unless you go on to earn an American LL.M. (something many Canadian law students go on to do anyway). That automatically opens up about 20 other states, one of which is definitely California (I don't know if Ohio is one or not). And, of course, you can always get your Master's from a T14. Failing that, you may need to put in a few years of practice somewhere else before you can practice in a given state. In general, practicing in the U.S. with a Canadian degree can be accomplished more easily than practicing in Canada with a U.S. degree.

There are no 160k jobs in Canada at all. Biglaw in Canada starts at 50k/yr to article in Vancouver, and goes up to 90k/yr the year later.


For what it's worth, it's also much less stressful, competitive, and dehumanizing.

Going to a school in a foreign country because you don't want to live in Ohio anymore is retarded. Law school is not a vacation.


Really? Because the UBC/Hawaii joint program, with two years in Van and two in Honolulu, sound like a hell of a great vacation to me!

If you have T30 numbers, do you really want a U of Hawaii JD on your resume? That is not a strong law school, and there are few jobs in its home market.


True, but:

UBC is probably the 4th or 5th best school in Canada.


And it is, for law (though all Canadian law schools are extremely well regarded by Canadian employers; there are no TTTs up here); as just a University, it's generally ranked 3rd (behind Toronto and McGill). This should enable it to do some heavy lifting in other markets: I think that, for example, with the ABA-approved J.D. from Hawaii making you eligible to practice in the Northwest, the UBC J.D. would still look very good on a resume up there, where they would know of it by reputation. Being able to deal with cross-border issues might even be a real asset in a place like Seattle.

The program to compare this to is the Windsor/Detroit Mercy program, and I think it's far superior. Hawaii, as a school, just seems hampered by a crazy location, while Mercy is a bad school in a bad location; the former location is also a tropical paradise, while the latter is a crime-ridden industrial wasteland. And, while all Canadian law schools are equally portable in Canada, and fall more or less in the statistical range of the top 100 U.S. schools, Windsor is sort of at the bottom of the food chain up here. Certainly as a university it's nothing UBC in terms of research, facilities, or international reputation.

I think there are all kinds of reasons that Hawaii grads don't place well outside of Hawaii that have nothing to do with the quality of the school. I have a friend who earned her professional doctorate in architecture there (their program is the only one of it's kind in the world), and she described it in very positive terms. Their law school is the most ethnically diverse in the United States, and they have a strong social justice mandate to helping the indigenous people of Hawaii. I'd be proud to have a degree from there. The school has done a lot to earn the respect of the island community, although these same efforts may be cast in a negative light for outsiders, for all the wrong reasons. But combining the Hawaii degree with a degree from a generally well-regarded school like UBC allows you to potentially negate a lot of these false perceptions. I don't think you should be concerned about the Hawaii "market", just ABA accreditation.

But if you do plan on going back to the US it might be hard as UBC alumnia are all mainly located in BC with maybe some in Asia


Uuh, maybe lots in Asia. Maybe a ridiculous number in Asia. Seriously, you have no idea how many Asian students are there: the University of Toronto was swarming with them when I went there, and by all accounts UBC has twice as many. "Elite" Canadian schools have a major advantage over their American "peers" in that they generally admit many times as many undergraduates and charge a fraction of the tuition. I'd say that UBC probably has a bigger alumni network in China than all but a handful of top American schools (they have a joint program in law with UHK for heaven's sake!)

I have to say that if I were in your shoes I’d totally do the UBC/Hawaii thing; I’d be starting it next year, in fact, if I’d gotten into UBC (but I’m off to Alberta instead).

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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby General Tso » Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:47 pm

I think you guys fail to understand how difficult it is to learn how to practice law in one STATE let alone two COUNTRIES. Young lawyers know next to nothing about the day to day practice of law. Good luck finding an employer willing to give you 3-4 years to learn both legal systems.

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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby Mal » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:30 am

MJMD wrote:
There are no 160k jobs in Canada at all. Biglaw in Canada starts at 50k/yr to article in Vancouver, and goes up to 90k/yr the year later.


For what it's worth, it's also much less stressful, competitive, and dehumanizing.

Going to a school in a foreign country because you don't want to live in Ohio anymore is retarded. Law school is not a vacation.


Really? Because the UBC/Hawaii joint program, with two years in Van and two in Honolulu, sound like a hell of a great vacation to me!

If you have T30 numbers, do you really want a U of Hawaii JD on your resume? That is not a strong law school, and there are few jobs in its home market.


True, but:

UBC is probably the 4th or 5th best school in Canada.


And it is, for law (though all Canadian law schools are extremely well regarded by Canadian employers; there are no TTTs up here); as just a University, it's generally ranked 3rd (behind Toronto and McGill). This should enable it to do some heavy lifting in other markets: I think that, for example, with the ABA-approved J.D. from Hawaii making you eligible to practice in the Northwest, the UBC J.D. would still look very good on a resume up there, where they would know of it by reputation. Being able to deal with cross-border issues might even be a real asset in a place like Seattle.

The program to compare this to is the Windsor/Detroit Mercy program, and I think it's far superior. Hawaii, as a school, just seems hampered by a crazy location, while Mercy is a bad school in a bad location; the former location is also a tropical paradise, while the latter is a crime-ridden industrial wasteland. And, while all Canadian law schools are equally portable in Canada, and fall more or less in the statistical range of the top 100 U.S. schools, Windsor is sort of at the bottom of the food chain up here. Certainly as a university it's nothing UBC in terms of research, facilities, or international reputation.

I think there are all kinds of reasons that Hawaii grads don't place well outside of Hawaii that have nothing to do with the quality of the school. I have a friend who earned her professional doctorate in architecture there (their program is the only one of it's kind in the world), and she described it in very positive terms. Their law school is the most ethnically diverse in the United States, and they have a strong social justice mandate to helping the indigenous people of Hawaii. I'd be proud to have a degree from there. The school has done a lot to earn the respect of the island community, although these same efforts may be cast in a negative light for outsiders, for all the wrong reasons. But combining the Hawaii degree with a degree from a generally well-regarded school like UBC allows you to potentially negate a lot of these false perceptions. I don't think you should be concerned about the Hawaii "market", just ABA accreditation.

But if you do plan on going back to the US it might be hard as UBC alumnia are all mainly located in BC with maybe some in Asia


Uuh, maybe lots in Asia. Maybe a ridiculous number in Asia. Seriously, you have no idea how many Asian students are there: the University of Toronto was swarming with them when I went there, and by all accounts UBC has twice as many. "Elite" Canadian schools have a major advantage over their American "peers" in that they generally admit many times as many undergraduates and charge a fraction of the tuition. I'd say that UBC probably has a bigger alumni network in China than all but a handful of top American schools (they have a joint program in law with UHK for heaven's sake!)

I have to say that if I were in your shoes I’d totally do the UBC/Hawaii thing; I’d be starting it next year, in fact, if I’d gotten into UBC (but I’m off to Alberta instead).


(1) Yes, I think it is stressful and competitive. Perhaps you should actually do a day or so in law school before making such definitive statements.

(2) Bond University in Australia is right near the beach where there is awesome surfing. Why don't you go there? Sounds like a great vacation! /sarcasm

(3) There is no credible ranking in Canada. USNews rankings roughly correlates with job prospects. That is the single biggest reason why it matters. There is no significant difference in job prospects across Canadian schools once you account for regional differences (except for UofT which gets a slight boost over everyone else). So no, I don't think "UBC is the 4th or 5th best law school in Canada". I think it is a great school in a really cool city, I don't need to objectively say it is better or worse than any other school. Definitely one of the better schools, but going beyond that to fine precision is ludicrous.

(4) Please don't denigrate Windsor. It does just as well as any other Canadian school with placing its graduates. It is a good law school. I don't even think it is the worst school in Ontario let alone Canada.

(5) The Windsor/Detroit program is hardly what you compare it to. What you compare it to is the best alternative, which should be UBC alone, or a top30 US school alone.

(6) Just because a school has a lot of Asian people does not mean its law school does, nor does it mean that these Asians go back to Asia (or are from there). Vancouver simply has a lot of Asian Canadians (something like 40% the population of Vancouver is Asian).

(7) You should be proud to go to Alberta. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada went here, and it is generally known as "one of the better" Canadian schools.

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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby MJMD » Thu Jun 10, 2010 11:41 am

Mal wrote:(2) Bond University in Australia is right near the beach where there is awesome surfing. Why don't you go there? Sounds like a great vacation!


Lol...point taken

Mal wrote:(3) There is no credible ranking in Canada.


Very true.

Mal wrote:USNews rankings roughly correlates with job prospects. That is the single biggest reason why it matters. There is no significant difference in job prospects across Canadian schools once you account for regional differences (except for UofT which gets a slight boost over everyone else).


Also very true, though I'd sat McGill gets a slight boost as well.

Mal wrote:So no, I don't think "UBC is the 4th or 5th best law school in Canada". I think it is a great school in a really cool city, I don't need to objectively say it is better or worse than any other school. Definitely one of the better schools, but going beyond that to fine precision is ludicrous.


Yes, I'm afraid I agree: I was just trying to boost it for the prestige hounds in here; but if there's any greater validity to overall university rankings, it does seem to consistently place 3rd in Canada (as it does in the ARWU, THES, and USNWR)

Mal wrote: (4) Please don't denigrate Windsor. It does just as well as any other Canadian school with placing its graduates. It is a good law school. I don't even think it is the worst school in Ontario let alone Canada.


Have to agree again, especially as my father went there and did mighty well for himself (but if there is a law school that Canadians tend to pick on, it’s Windsor).

Mal wrote: (5) The Windsor/Detroit program is hardly what you compare it to. What you compare it to is the best alternative, which should be UBC alone, or a top30 US school alone.


I disagree: it’s a joint program, and so should be compared to a joint program. Comparing UBC alone to a top30 US school alone is impossible because they’re completely different countries.

Mal wrote: (6) Just because a school has a lot of Asian people does not mean its law school does, nor does it mean that these Asians go back to Asia (or are from there). Vancouver simply has a lot of Asian Canadians (something like 40% the population of Vancouver is Asian).


I was referring to the general alumni network. But as I said, the law school, in addition to its joint program with UH (and Hawaii is about 40% Asian as well) has a joint program with the University of Hong Kong Faculty of Law as well, as well as extensive programs in Chinese, Japanese, and Korean law, which I think strongly suggests a broad Asian alumni presence.

Mal wrote: (7) You should be proud to go to Alberta. The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada went here, and it is generally known as "one of the better" Canadian schools.


Oh, I am proud! And excited, don’t get me wrong (Alberta all the way, baby!). I’m very much looking forward to it. And if I really wanted to do a joint program myself, Alberta has one with Colorado at Boulder now, which is a higher ranked American school.

But let’s face it: Edmonton is coooooooold (brrrr!). And I still think that, in the case of the UBC/Hawaii program, the strength of the former degree would make up for the perceived weakness of the latter, and that both places seem like marvellous destinations for a young law student in the prime of life.

I think that in Seattle you’d be perceived slightly behind a UW graduate, but well ahead of someone from Gonzaga; that you'd have a slight edge over an ordinary UH graduate in Hawaii or anywhere else in the American Pacific; and that in Canada your prospects would be great anywhere in the country. Breaking in anywhere else would be a challenge, but when is it ever not? My point is that there's nothing stopping you. The OP is thinking seriously about UBC, and there exists a not-unpleasant-sounding way for her to fulfill her requirements to practice stateside. If that will make her happy for the next four years, she shouldn’t be scared off of it by a bunch of presumptuous number-crunching.

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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby General Tso » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:43 pm

On NPR this morning a recent U of Hawaii undergrad was talking about how poor the job prospects there are for recent grads. Hawaii's economy is still heavily reliant on tourism. This guy was moving to NYC to work for a year and then was planning to apply to law school on the mainland.

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Re: university of british columbia / UBC

Postby dibs » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:19 am

Mal wrote:
kirsi wrote:hi all -

forgive me if there is a thread about this school already but i haven't been able to find one really so far...

i am looking to enter law school in fall 2011 and UBC has come up in my search. however, i've never been to vancouver (or anywhere close to it) and don't know what the school is like, what students think of it, job prospects for graduating law students, what housing is like, whether or not it is recommended to have a car there, etc. just the basic stuff. i also have heard/read some stuff about their courses about law in asia, which might be interesting for me as my undergrad degrees are in japanese and east asian studies. not that i am particularly interested in that area of law...

any comments, insight, or whatever would be helpful and greatly appreciated. thanks :D

PS. I live in Ohio and am planning on applying to various schools here, but I have been reading about how they are "regional" and I 1) don't care really to live here for the rest of my life and 2) have OSU as my #1 ohio school choice and don't really feel like going back there for another three years. and i hear great things about vancouver in general and it looks beautiful. :P


No Canadian school is ABA approved. If you go to a Canadian school it may not be possible to go back to many places in the states.

There are no 160k jobs in Canada at all. Biglaw in Canada starts at 50k/yr to article in Vancouver, and goes up to 90k/yr the year later.

Going to a school in a foreign country because you don't want to live in Ohio anymore is retarded. Law school is not a vacation.


bullshit. my friend is making 200k+ 2years out of dalhousie.




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