Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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A Fern Port
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby A Fern Port » Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:03 am

freeflowfox wrote:I know this is probably a difficult question to answer, but Chicago sticker vs Michigan 45,000. With your perspective, which one?

Thanks in advance.

I think Chicago places better than Michigan (CCN > MVP). So, I think you'd have to do better at Michigan to get the same options at Chicago, perhaps something like top 1/3rd there to be in the same spot as median here. On the other hand, 45k isn't chicken feed...

Don't suppose you've visited both? If you have, I would go to whichever one you think you'll be happier at. I've never actually been to Michigan, for what it's worth, so I can't really comment on the merits of the school beyond placement statistics. (From reading the boards, their students obviously love it. But that is true everywhere.)

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hiromoto45
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby hiromoto45 » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:52 pm

1. When do you start working on the writing requirement? Is it graded?
2. Is it daunting? From what I've read it seems pretty involved compared to other schools.

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A Fern Port
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby A Fern Port » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:39 pm

hiromoto45 wrote:1. When do you start working on the writing requirement? Is it graded?
2. Is it daunting? From what I've read it seems pretty involved compared to other schools.

You can take a class to complete half of the writing requirement as early as spring of 1L. (I assume you don't mean me specifically. I am done my writing requirements.)

It isn't really that daunting. If you join a journal, that counts as one of them. Alternatively, if you do moot court and make the semi-finals (not too difficult if you put in the effort), that counts as well. With the new requirements, you only need to write one long paper, and the other can be done as a series of response papers, without having to edit them or do much research.

I know lots of people who have completed the writing requirement a couple times over, just by taking the classes/journal/moot court things they took otherwise. It is only really daunting if you leave it all until the last quarter.

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hiromoto45
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby hiromoto45 » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:38 pm

1. Roommate or live alone for 1L?
2. Possible to maintain a relationship during 1L?
3. How many people are in a section? Does admissions "craft" sections?

liljerry
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby liljerry » Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:46 pm

You mentioned that EE is good for IP work. Know anything about ME (Mechanical)? How well does ME/JD place?

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A Fern Port
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby A Fern Port » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:05 am

hiromoto45 wrote:1. Roommate or live alone for 1L?
2. Possible to maintain a relationship during 1L?
3. How many people are in a section? Does admissions "craft" sections?


1. I had a roommate, and liked having a roommate. Good way to meet people in the 1L class. This is especially true if you live at Regents, as the apartments are reasonably large, you get your own bathroom if you split a 2 bedroom, etc. I know people that aren't big fans of roommates, and they didn't have one, and it didn't hurt them at all though. So, it's a matter of personal preference about whether you mind having someone around, and whether you want to pay the extra money for a 1 bedroom.

2. Yes. 1L isn't as insane as some people make it out to be. Should probably find someone understanding, and willing to let you work for a couple days straight, though, for when LRW assignments roll around.

3. Sections are somewhere around 29-32 people. Whatever the numberof 1Ls is divided by six, I suppose. I don't think admissions crafts any sections. (What would they craft them for? Diversity? Grouping together the smart people?) I mean, they might try to ensure there's some diversity or something, but I didn't notice any of this. Seemed pretty random.

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A Fern Port
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby A Fern Port » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:08 am

liljerry wrote:You mentioned that EE is good for IP work. Know anything about ME (Mechanical)? How well does ME/JD place?

I think it places nearly as well as EE. Generally speaking, I think IP jobs are easier to find than non-IP jobs, but it may not be too dramatically so.

I don't really have any first-hand knowledge on how ME places though, but I have seen it listed on a fair number of Symplicity ads for IP positions alongside EE.

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Mr. T6
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby Mr. T6 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:06 pm

hiromoto45 wrote:1. Roommate or live alone for 1L?
2. Possible to maintain a relationship during 1L?
3. How many people are in a section? Does admissions "craft" sections?


1. I don't think it matters. I prefer to live alone, but to each his own. Whatever you've been doing, don't make any radical adjustments.

2. Definitely. But beware of falling for someone in the Law School. I think the long hours together engender romantic feelings, because I know of several couples in my class that broke up with non-LS people in order to be with each other.

3. ~30. I don't think admissions "crafts" sections, but even if they do, I don't think it matters.

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hiromoto45
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby hiromoto45 » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:32 am

1. Are people below the median or in the bottom 1/3 screwed with employment prospect?
2. How was OCI impacted by the recession?
3. Any horror stories that come to mind about grades/exams/employment etc with students at UC?

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Mr. T6
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby Mr. T6 » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:49 am

hiromoto45 wrote:1. Are people below the median or in the bottom 1/3 screwed with employment prospect?
2. How was OCI impacted by the recession?
3. Any horror stories that come to mind about grades/exams/employment etc with students at UC?


1. With BigLaw? In my class? Possibly/probably, at least if they only did the 2009 OCI.

2. In one word: terrible. In more than one word, there are literally hundreds of threads on this subject on every site from above the law to autoadmit to TLS to LSD.

3. I've heard of a few stories in which a grossly low grade sunk an otherwise stellar transcript. God forbid.

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parker09
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby parker09 » Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:12 am

Piggybacking on freefloxfox, and again, difficult question to answer, but: Chicago sticker or Columbia w/ $37.5k (after factoring in nyc cost of living, chicago prob ends up costing $20k more)? I see Chicago's tiny class size as a huge asset, but unsure if it's $20k worth of asset...

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A Fern Port
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby A Fern Port » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:27 am

hiromoto45 wrote:1. Are people below the median or in the bottom 1/3 screwed with employment prospect?
2. How was OCI impacted by the recession?
3. Any horror stories that come to mind about grades/exams/employment etc with students at UC?

1. In short, no. Even if this past OCI (which was terrible--biglaw firms hired as little as 1/8th as many students as two years ago in some cases, like Cravath), these students could find jobs if they were some combination of good at interviewing, lucky, and willing to send out a lot of resumes to secondary markets. In a better year, such as my year's OCI or prior to that, most below median students got jobs through OCI.

2. Cravath (Vault #2 firm; big NY firm) hired 160 summers in 2008. For 2010, they will have something like 21 summers. You can imagine how many fewer callbacks/summer offers there were to go around when firms slash hiring this dramatically.

3. Not really. Unsure what you're looking for.

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A Fern Port
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby A Fern Port » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:32 am

parker09 wrote:Piggybacking on freefloxfox, and again, difficult question to answer, but: Chicago sticker or Columbia w/ $37.5k (after factoring in nyc cost of living, chicago prob ends up costing $20k more)? I see Chicago's tiny class size as a huge asset, but unsure if it's $20k worth of asset...

I'm a really bad "Rah rah, Chicago is better than all schools, everyone should come here!" cheerleader. Or, perhaps I'm not trying.

To be perfectly honest, in your spot, I would go to Columbia. I mean, I think Columbia places as well, or at least extremely close to as well (for clerkships/academia) as Chicago does in basically all areas. If you have a reason you'd prefer Chicago over Columbia, such as visiting both schools and really preferring Chicago or thinking you'd be a lot happier here over three years, then come to Chicago. But, without personal reasons to choose Chicago over Columbia, I would go to whichever of the two will be cheaper for you.

As a side note, did you call Chicago and tell them about the Columbia scholarship? I feel like if our administration ever matches any school's scholarships (which they do), it should be Columbia. Because, if you could get 37.5k from Chicago, so it was 17.5k cheaper than Columbia, my analysis basically reverses, so you'd need a compelling reason to attend Columbia.

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parker09
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby parker09 » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:38 am

A Fern Port wrote:As a side note, did you call Chicago and tell them about the Columbia scholarship? I feel like if our administration ever matches any school's scholarships (which they do), it should be Columbia. Because, if you could get 37.5k from Chicago, so it was 17.5k cheaper than Columbia, my analysis basically reverses, so you'd need a compelling reason to attend Columbia.

I tried... Karla Vargas turned me down in 2 hrs with 2 sentences :(

No personal preferences. I just like the small class size and lower cost of living of Chicago, but am perfectly happy to go to Columbia... just wanted to get a few last opinions before depositing. Thanks!

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A Fern Port
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby A Fern Port » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:14 am

parker09 wrote:I tried... Karla Vargas turned me down in 2 hrs with 2 sentences :(

No personal preferences. I just like the small class size and lower cost of living of Chicago, but am perfectly happy to go to Columbia... just wanted to get a few last opinions before depositing. Thanks!

Seems like a bad decision by our admissions people. (I guess the school may already be over-subscribed or something, but whatever.)

But yeah, I would deposit at Columbia if I was you. I like the small class size here, but there are, of course, some advantages to large class size as well.

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tintin
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby tintin » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:20 am

is it hard/costly to get a street permit in hyde park? safe to park on the street? do i need to have like some kinda cover for my car in the snow?

not all of the grad apartments seem to offer parking...

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Rand M.
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby Rand M. » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:21 am

parker09 wrote:
A Fern Port wrote:As a side note, did you call Chicago and tell them about the Columbia scholarship? I feel like if our administration ever matches any school's scholarships (which they do), it should be Columbia. Because, if you could get 37.5k from Chicago, so it was 17.5k cheaper than Columbia, my analysis basically reverses, so you'd need a compelling reason to attend Columbia.

I tried... Karla Vargas turned me down in 2 hrs with 2 sentences :(

I experienced exactly the same thing. Took them money from NYU and she asked me to write her a long "Why Chicago?" For my 2,000 words I got a simple, "Sorry, nothing I can do." :evil:

In the end I still chose Chicago, but I don't think I would have in your situation. 37.5k is a slight bump up from what I got and I consider Chicago and Columbia equals (unlike my perceptions of NYU).

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Mr. T6
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby Mr. T6 » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:02 pm

tintin wrote:is it hard/costly to get a street permit in hyde park? safe to park on the street? do i need to have like some kinda cover for my car in the snow?

not all of the grad apartments seem to offer parking...


Eh, I would try to find a grad apartment with parking. It's possible to park around Hyde Park, but it's not the greatest idea.

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mochafury
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby mochafury » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:18 pm

Hi guys, thanks for doing this.

1. Is Chicago demonstrably better than all non-HYS for clerkships/academia, or is this largely due to self-selection? I don't expect a solid answer here, but any thoughts?
2. Related to this, everyone says the small class size rocks. But you have to be basically a top 20 student to make law review --> clerkship --> academia --> world domination. Whereas, at say CLS, you only have to be a top 40 student. Rebuttal?
3. I loved Chicago when I visited. Congratulations on going to a super nerdy (this is a good thing for me) and cool school.

miamiman
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby miamiman » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:21 pm

mochafury wrote:[strike]Hi guys, thanks for doing this.

1. Is Chicago demonstrably better than all non-HYS for clerkships/academia, or is this largely due to self-selection? I don't expect a solid answer here, but any thoughts?
2. Related to this, everyone says the small class size rocks. But you have to be basically a top 20 student to make law review --> clerkship --> academia --> world domination. Whereas, at say CLS, you only have to be a top 40 student. Rebuttal?
3. I loved Chicago when I visited. Congratulations on going to a super nerdy (this is a good thing for me) and cool school.[/strike]



fixed for you. have fun at SLS.

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tintin
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby tintin » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:24 pm

wait, do you really have to be top 20 to do those things? am i going to fare better going to a larger school??

im scared. i went to a slacker undergrad. ahhhh. everyone is going to be smarter than me!! :cry:

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mochafury
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby mochafury » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:28 pm

miamiman wrote:
mochafury wrote:[strike]Hi guys, thanks for doing this.

1. Is Chicago demonstrably better than all non-HYS for clerkships/academia, or is this largely due to self-selection? I don't expect a solid answer here, but any thoughts?
2. Related to this, everyone says the small class size rocks. But you have to be basically a top 20 student to make law review --> clerkship --> academia --> world domination. Whereas, at say CLS, you only have to be a top 40 student. Rebuttal?
3. I loved Chicago when I visited. Congratulations on going to a super nerdy (this is a good thing for me) and cool school.[/strike]



fixed for you. have fun at SLS.


Haha, thanks. I never should have posted that other thread. In truth, I'm in purgatory at S, but I need to know whether to even bother saying yes to the waitlist. So the C v. C debate is entirely apropos for me right now, with S in the distant background.

OPs, sorry for the temporary hijack. Advice?

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A Fern Port
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby A Fern Port » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:34 pm

mochafury wrote:Hi guys, thanks for doing this.

1. Is Chicago demonstrably better than all non-HYS for clerkships/academia, or is this largely due to self-selection? I don't expect a solid answer here, but any thoughts?
2. Related to this, everyone says the small class size rocks. But you have to be basically a top 20 student to make law review --> clerkship --> academia --> world domination. Whereas, at say CLS, you only have to be a top 40 student. Rebuttal?
3. I loved Chicago when I visited. Congratulations on going to a super nerdy (this is a good thing for me) and cool school.

1. I don't know much/anything about academia. I think Chicago is probably roughly on par with Columbia for clerkships, perhaps slightly better. Either way, it's close. I think both are a bit better than NYU, and the lower-than-CCN schools.

2. I don't see why it'd be easier to make Law Review at either, if the proportions are the same. I do know that at Chicago, there's also 10 write-on spots for the writing competition. And, in my year, I believe three people have written on separately. Both the people that wrote on during 2L year (one wrote on during 3L year) received good clerkships, one in ND IL, and one in the 5th Circuit. So, even if you don't grade on, you can come up with a good paper topic, put the effort in to make it onto Law Review, and still potentially land good clerkships. (There were also non-LR clerkships, but your question seemed LR-based.)

3. Thanks, I like it too, though I'm done in a month and a half.

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A Fern Port
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby A Fern Port » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:36 pm

tintin wrote:wait, do you really have to be top 20 to do those things? am i going to fare better going to a larger school??

im scared. i went to a slacker undergrad. ahhhh. everyone is going to be smarter than me!! :cry:


Hopefully I addressed that. Law Review is top 10% after 1L (who do the writing competition), plus 5% who do best in the writing competition. Past that, you can use topic access to write on if you have a good idea and are willing to put in the work.

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hiromoto45
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby hiromoto45 » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:57 pm

A Fern Port wrote:
parker09 wrote:I tried... Karla Vargas turned me down in 2 hrs with 2 sentences :(

No personal preferences. I just like the small class size and lower cost of living of Chicago, but am perfectly happy to go to Columbia... just wanted to get a few last opinions before depositing. Thanks!

Seems like a bad decision by our admissions people. (I guess the school may already be over-subscribed or something, but whatever.)

But yeah, I would deposit at Columbia if I was you. I like the small class size here, but there are, of course, some advantages to large class size as well.


What are some advantages of a larger class size? I've been under the impression that smaller is better.




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