Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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A Fern Port
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Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby A Fern Port » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:43 pm

Taking questions regarding the school. Making my own thread, since the other thread title isn't accurate for me.

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A Fern Port
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby A Fern Port » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:47 pm

jerjon2 wrote:How did IP (patent specifically) people fare at OCI relative to their class rank? (I realize this may be to specific to get any answer but I figured why not)


Generally speaking, patent people fared a bit better relative to their rank. A lot of patent work is done at IP boutiques rather than Vault 100 firms. A lot of these IP boutiques continue to hire normal class sizes, and in fact there's even been some Symplicity ads looking for 3Ls who want to do patent work.

Compare this to firms like Cravath, which went from 160 summers two years ago to 20 this year, where jobs were much tougher to come by.

This is only true if you have the prerequisite degrees patent firms look for. If you have a BS in EE, you should have more options than you otherwise would at your class rank.

miamiman
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby miamiman » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:49 pm

1. Can you comfortably use a mac at chicago?

2. Things you wish you knew about chicago prior to enrolling.

3. Stereotypes true?

4. Advice?

jerjon2
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby jerjon2 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:49 pm

A Fern Port wrote:
jerjon2 wrote:How did IP (patent specifically) people fare at OCI relative to their class rank? (I realize this may be to specific to get any answer but I figured why not)


Generally speaking, patent people fared a bit better relative to their rank. A lot of patent work is done at IP boutiques rather than Vault 100 firms. A lot of these IP boutiques continue to hire normal class sizes, and in fact there's even been some Symplicity ads looking for 3Ls who want to do patent work.

Compare this to firms like Cravath, which went from 160 summers two years ago to 20 this year, where jobs were much tougher to come by.

This is only true if you have the prerequisite degrees patent firms look for. If you have a BS in EE, you should have more options than you otherwise would at your class rank.


What about an AA Male with a BSEE (straight from UG with no full time experience but from a top 5 Engineering School)

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A Fern Port
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby A Fern Port » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:51 pm

miamiman wrote:1. Can you comfortably use a mac at chicago?

2. Things you wish you knew about chicago prior to enrolling.

3. Stereotypes true?

4. Advice?


1. Yes. Chicago does not use any form of exam software. You type out exams in Word, or your writing program of choice, and submit them using a web interface. Approximately 40% of the students at school use Macs. You will have no problems with a Mac.

2. It gets really cold and windy during winter. Buy a really warm coat.

3. Unsure which stereotypes you mean, but probably not. All schools are a lot more similar than stereotypes make them out to be.

4. Advice on what?

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Mr. T6
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby Mr. T6 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:53 pm

miamiman wrote:1. Can you comfortably use a mac at chicago?

2. Things you wish you knew about chicago prior to enrolling.

3. Stereotypes true?

4. Advice?


1. No clue. I use a dell laptop.

2. There aren't many Jews. Chicago is just not a great place for that, especially compared to NYC. This comment is obviously idiosyncratic.

3. I don't know what the stereotypes are.

4. Don't worry too much about school prestige. Once you hit the T10, I think the difference between schools is almost inconsequential in comparison to your class rank. Yale may be the exception.

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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby miamiman » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:54 pm

4. Advice on doing well? Making it through LS happy? Getting a f'ing job? You choose

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A Fern Port
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby A Fern Port » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:55 pm

jerjon2 wrote:What about an AA Male with a BSEE (straight from UG with no full time experience but from a top 5 Engineering School)


I don't really know how AA (African-American, or just affirmative action?) people do specifically at IP firms.

More generally, there are a fair number of minority student 1L jobs available, if you wish to work at a big firm your 1L summer. I think ~ 50-75% of the black students in my year worked biglaw their 1L summer, which is nice, because that's something like 20-30k in your pocket. It may be that those who did not work at biglaw their 1L summer chose not to, or it might be that they couldn't land anything. I'm not sure.

A BS in EE is the most desirable job if you want to work in patent law, either litigation or prosecution. A lack of work experience will not hold you back. If you can get into a school like Chicago (or its peers), and have a BS in EE from a top school, you will be able to get a job doing patent litigation or prosecution, more or less guaranteed.

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Mr. T6
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby Mr. T6 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:57 pm

miamiman wrote:4. Advice on doing well? Making it through LS happy? Getting a f'ing job? You choose


Law School doesn't, and shouldn't, be a stressful, unhappy time. After the first year, many people are carefree.

Doing well is a matter of luck and test-taking ability. You'll never know until you get your grades back, and even then you may still not know.

Getting a job is a matter of networking, grades, and interviewing ability. I got a job, but I haven't gotten a "f'ing job", so I can't help you there.
Last edited by Mr. T6 on Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A Fern Port
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby A Fern Port » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:00 pm

miamiman wrote:4. Advice on doing well? Making it through LS happy? Getting a f'ing job? You choose


Doing well: Learn what to look for in cases, and don't waste time memorizing the facts. I would tend to use old outlines and/or hornbooks to study a lot more than the text book. Put in some effort in the quarter, but about 3 weeks before exams, really buckle down and outline all your classes. Look at the student answers from old exams both for their content, and their style. some professors like long spot-every-issue answers, whereas some professors prefer more depth and don't care as much if you focus on the two big issues without really addressing three tiny ones.

LS happy: Don't base your happiness on grades. Participate in a lot of activities with other 1Ls, such as wine mess or bar review. Make a lot of close friends in 1L year rather than holing up with a book.

A job: Do as well in school as you can. Take every chance in 1L to talk to people who work at law firms. Not so much for "networking", but just to learn what people at big firms talk about, and how they talk, and what questions they respond to (for the purpose of improving interview skills prior to OCI). If you don't get 5+ callbacks at OCI, send out a ton of letter immediately rather than banking on getting a job from a callback. This may or may not be an issue, depending on the economy. Historically, finding a job was easy, but this year, it wasn't. Who knows what the future holds.

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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby jerjon2 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:00 pm

A Fern Port wrote:
jerjon2 wrote:What about an AA Male with a BSEE (straight from UG with no full time experience but from a top 5 Engineering School)


I don't really know how AA (African-American, or just affirmative action?) people do specifically at IP firms.

More generally, there are a fair number of minority student 1L jobs available, if you wish to work at a big firm your 1L summer. I think ~ 50-75% of the black students in my year worked biglaw their 1L summer, which is nice, because that's something like 20-30k in your pocket. It may be that those who did not work at biglaw their 1L summer chose not to, or it might be that they couldn't land anything. I'm not sure.

A BS in EE is the most desirable job if you want to work in patent law, either litigation or prosecution. A lack of work experience will not hold you back. If you can get into a school like Chicago (or its peers), and have a BS in EE from a top school, you will be able to get a job doing patent litigation or prosecution, more or less guaranteed.


Thanks, are there any IP specific for 1L jobs? I know that some of the firms I've seen with diversity programs for 1L summer have a strong IP presence and I'm just curious if there is any way that my engineering background would help my 1L summer search.

miamiman
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby miamiman » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:02 pm

Mr. T6 wrote:
miamiman wrote:4. Advice on doing well? Making it through LS happy? Getting a f'ing job? You choose


Law School doesn't, and shouldn't, be a stressful, unhappy time. After the first year, many people are carefree.

Doing well is a matter of luck and test-taking ability. You'll never know until you get your grades back, and even then you may still not know.

Getting a job is a matter of networking, grades, and interviewing ability. I haven't gotten a "f'ing job", so I can't help you there.


Without pressing too much, what was your impression of how the 2ls did this year? What's your plan? Sorry to hear it didn't work out

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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby AngryAvocado » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:02 pm

Mr. T6 wrote:
miamiman wrote:4. Advice on doing well? Making it through LS happy? Getting a f'ing job? You choose


Law School doesn't, and shouldn't, be a stressful, unhappy time. After the first year, many people are carefree.

Doing well is a matter of luck and test-taking ability. You'll never know until you get your grades back, and even then you may still not know.

Getting a job is a matter of networking, grades, and interviewing ability. I haven't gotten a "f'ing job", so I can't help you there.


You said you had a job in the 2L thread...EXPLAIN YOURSELF!

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A Fern Port
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby A Fern Port » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:03 pm

Mr. T6 wrote:Getting a job is a matter of networking, grades, and interviewing ability. I haven't gotten a "f'ing job", so I can't help you there.


You have a summer associate job, which is close to a real job as a 2L can have... Just do well in summer, and you'll be there.

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Mr. T6
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby Mr. T6 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:03 pm

A Fern Port wrote:
Mr. T6 wrote:Getting a job is a matter of networking, grades, and interviewing ability. I haven't gotten a "f'ing job", so I can't help you there.


You have a summer associate job, which is close to a real job as a 2L can have... Just do well in summer, and you'll be there.


Yeah, I got a job, but it doesn't involve f'ing, sadly.

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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby AngryAvocado » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:04 pm

Mr. T6 wrote:
A Fern Port wrote:
Mr. T6 wrote:Getting a job is a matter of networking, grades, and interviewing ability. I haven't gotten a "f'ing job", so I can't help you there.


You have a summer associate job, which is close to a real job as a 2L can have... Just do well in summer, and you'll be there.


Yeah, I got a job, but it doesn't involve f'ing, sadly.


Satisfactory explanation. Carry on.

miamiman
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby miamiman » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:07 pm

AA, get out of my convo!

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AngryAvocado
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby AngryAvocado » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:12 pm

miamiman wrote:AA, get out of my convo!


:oops:


(Psst...ask them what one's grades would need to be to get a summer job that involved f'ing)

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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby miamiman » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:14 pm

Yea, seriously, how do I get a SA that's anything like The Deep End

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A Fern Port
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby A Fern Port » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:19 pm

miamiman wrote:Yea, seriously, how do I get a SA that's anything like The Deep End


Unfamiliar with The Deep End. (And I realize this wasn't a real question anyhow.)

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hiromoto45
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby hiromoto45 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:19 pm

Do you guys recommend having a car?

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A Fern Port
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby A Fern Port » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:24 pm

AngryAvocado wrote:
sharks_suck wrote:For what it is worth, I did 30-something OCI interviews.


I worked for a little while after graduating and went through a few interview processes for internships and such, and 20+ interviews sounds like it would be incredibly stressful to me. Is it as bad as it sounds?


Each OCI interview is ~ 20 minutes. When I did OCI, it was over three weeks, four days a week (it has since been shortened to 2 weeks, 5 days/week). So, it tended to be 2-4 interviews a day. Each interview is pretty similar to the last.

I definitely got tired on interviewing by the end, and they started to blur together a lot. Of course, it also got easier to give good answers, as I got more used to interviewing, and better at answering the stock questions.

In short, it was really tiring. Not really stressful though, because I just didn't care as much by the end, since I had a fair number of callbacks. By then, I was only concerned with finding a firm with cool people, rather than desperate to sell myself to land anything.
Last edited by A Fern Port on Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A Fern Port
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby A Fern Port » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:26 pm

hiromoto45 wrote:Do you guys recommend having a car?


Some people have a car, some people don't. I think having a car is pretty useful, but it may not be worth the cost of parking/insurance/etc to you.

I would recommend living in Hyde Park (Regents particularly) 1L year. You don't really need a car there. I'd also recommend moving north for 2L and 3L, at which point, you will need a car.

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AngryAvocado
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby AngryAvocado » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:34 pm

Thanks for answering the OCI question. I should probably know this, but does OCI typically occur during or just before classes start?

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A Fern Port
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Re: Chicago 3L Taking Questions.

Postby A Fern Port » Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:38 pm

AngryAvocado wrote:Thanks for answering the OCI question. I should probably know this, but does OCI typically occur during or just before classes start?


OCI this year was from August 10-21st. Class does not begin here until ~ September 30th. OCI is held at about the same time, give or take a few weeks, at all schools. Chicago starts later than most schools though, so it is a long time before school for us. It is nice though because it gives people plenty of time to do callbacks without any concern for missing class.




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