Top Law Schools

KibblesAndVick wrote:

gdane5 wrote:When it comes down to making a decision a student should ask "Will I get a good education? Will I be able to pass the Bar exam? Will i be able to secure meaningful employment after graduation?", not "What rank is my school according to USNWR?".

I completely agree that these are the important underlying concerns. But, would you agree that the favorability of the answers to these questions highly correlates to the rank of your school in the USNWR rankings? Harvard will get you a superb education, the vast majority of their graduates pass the bar on their first try, and their job prospects are top notch. The fact that they are ranked #2 doesn't cause this but there is a strong correlation. I suppose this becomes much less meaningful when looking at schools comparable to each other in the rankings (T10 vs T10 or T50 vs T50).

baboon309 wrote:

gdane5 wrote:Employers dont care about rankings. They do not care whatsoever. employers do not consult USNWR when hiring people.

"Hmm... You went to University of Florida? Its ranked 51... I have a George Mason grad here too. GMU is ranked 38. I think ill go with him". This scenario is very unlikely to happen solely because of the rankings.

I base my opinion off of conversations ive had with professors that are very close to actual attorney's and a family member that works as an administrative assistant at Holland and Knight here in Miami. She tells me that the hiring partner hires from all types of schools regardless of rankings. Of course on thing she stressed was that the "less prestigious" your school was, the more impeccable your grades had to be. She gave me an example of an NYU student that was hired with decent grades, while an FIU grad that was hired was one of the top 10 people in her class, on moot court and all that stuff.

I personally believe that rankings should be used loosely. After the top 25 or so, they go out the window. What makes number 28 GW better than number 30 Fordham? What makes number 26 BC better than number 28 GW? These rankings are very detrimental to the study of law and force students to base their decisions off of what a magazine says.

When it comes down to making a decision a student should ask "Will I get a good education? Will I be able to pass the Bar exam? Will i be able to secure meaningful employment after graduation?", not "What rank is my school according to USNWR?".

Why top 25?

beach_terror wrote:Thomas M. Cooley Law School... better than Fordham since 2008.

gdane5 wrote:Employers dont care about rankings. They do not care whatsoever. employers do not consult USNWR when hiring people.

"Hmm... You went to University of Florida? Its ranked 51... I have a George Mason grad here too. GMU is ranked 38. I think ill go with him". This scenario is very unlikely to happen solely because of the rankings.

I base my opinion off of conversations ive had with professors that are very close to actual attorney's and a family member that works as an administrative assistant at Holland and Knight here in Miami. She tells me that the hiring partner hires from all types of schools regardless of rankings. Of course on thing she stressed was that the "less prestigious" your school was, the more impeccable your grades had to be. She gave me an example of an NYU student that was hired with decent grades, while an FIU grad that was hired was one of the top 10 people in her class, on moot court and all that stuff.

I personally believe that rankings should be used loosely. After the top 25 or so, they go out the window. What makes number 28 GW better than number 30 Fordham? What makes number 26 BC better than number 28 GW? These rankings are very detrimental to the study of law and force students to base their decisions off of what a magazine says.

When it comes down to making a decision a student should ask "Will I get a good education? Will I be able to pass the Bar exam? Will i be able to secure meaningful employment after graduation?", not "What rank is my school according to USNWR?".

Stringer Bell wrote:

beach_terror wrote:Thomas M. Cooley Law School... better than Fordham since 2008.

You chose to focus on the fact that they rank themselves higher than Fordham as opposed to ranking themselves higher than Stanford?

Fef619 wrote:

gdane5 wrote:Employers dont care about rankings. They do not care whatsoever. employers do not consult USNWR when hiring people.

"Hmm... You went to University of Florida? Its ranked 51... I have a George Mason grad here too. GMU is ranked 38. I think ill go with him". This scenario is very unlikely to happen solely because of the rankings.

I base my opinion off of conversations ive had with professors that are very close to actual attorney's and a family member that works as an administrative assistant at Holland and Knight here in Miami. She tells me that the hiring partner hires from all types of schools regardless of rankings. Of course on thing she stressed was that the "less prestigious" your school was, the more impeccable your grades had to be. She gave me an example of an NYU student that was hired with decent grades, while an FIU grad that was hired was one of the top 10 people in her class, on moot court and all that stuff.

I personally believe that rankings should be used loosely. After the top 25 or so, they go out the window. What makes number 28 GW better than number 30 Fordham? What makes number 26 BC better than number 28 GW? These rankings are very detrimental to the study of law and force students to base their decisions off of what a magazine says.

When it comes down to making a decision a student should ask "Will I get a good education? Will I be able to pass the Bar exam? Will i be able to secure meaningful employment after graduation?", not "What rank is my school according to USNWR?".

I agree...it's just everyone seems to be so concerned with rankings lately it has me starting to worry..I just want to have the best opportunities possible. I've never been one to choose a school based strictly off what U.S. news has to say.

Will I get a good education?

Will I be able to pass the bar exam?

Will I be able to secure meaningful employment?

OperaSoprano wrote: Rankings seem to matter in relative groupings after the T14, plus Vandy/UCLA/UT. Within the 20-30 range, for instance, employers are likely to pick candidates attending the school in their home region. There is not some magic cutoff at #25, and GW is probably going to beat BC in DC, if the students are otherwise similar.

webbylu87 wrote:

holydonkey wrote:

Fef619 wrote:What is the difference between http://www.lawschool100.com/ and U.S. News rankings? Some schools that are not top tier in U.S. News are considered top tier on lawschool100. Which site is more reliable? Sorry if this question has already been asked. Thanks.

Definitely lawschool100.

Clearly USNWR is more legit, I'm just wondering if anyone has ever looked at lawschool100's methodology. I would by no means make a decision based on that. Just curious.

gdane5 wrote:Employers dont care about rankings. They do not care whatsoever. employers do not consult USNWR when hiring people.

"Hmm... You went to University of Florida? Its ranked 51... I have a George Mason grad here too. GMU is ranked 38. I think ill go with him". This scenario is very unlikely to happen solely because of the rankings.

I base my opinion off of conversations ive had with professors that are very close to actual attorney's and a family member that works as an administrative assistant at Holland and Knight here in Miami. She tells me that the hiring partner hires from all types of schools regardless of rankings. Of course on thing she stressed was that the "less prestigious" your school was, the more impeccable your grades had to be. She gave me an example of an NYU student that was hired with decent grades, while an FIU grad that was hired was one of the top 10 people in her class, on moot court and all that stuff.

I personally believe that rankings should be used loosely. After the top 25 or so, they go out the window. What makes number 28 GW better than number 30 Fordham? What makes number 26 BC better than number 28 GW? These rankings are very detrimental to the study of law and force students to base their decisions off of what a magazine says.

When it comes down to making a decision a student should ask "Will I get a good education? Will I be able to pass the Bar exam? Will i be able to secure meaningful employment after graduation?", not "What rank is my school according to USNWR?".

janetcarter wrote:US News publishes its methodology, so most law schools game the system. They put students with low LSAT scores in the night division. They admit fewer students to increase ratios. They buy more useless books for their library. Law School 100 says it doesn't publish its methodology, thereby keeping law schools from gaming its rankings!

beach_terror wrote:

Stringer Bell wrote:

beach_terror wrote:Thomas M. Cooley Law School... better than Fordham since 2008.

You chose to focus on the fact that they rank themselves higher than Fordham as opposed to ranking themselves higher than Stanford?

Woah there slugger, I just glanced at it and that was the first thing I saw. Sorry for not devoting more time to the Cooley ranking system.

Desert Fox wrote:

OperaSoprano wrote: Rankings seem to matter in relative groupings after the T14, plus Vandy/UCLA/UT. Within the 20-30 range, for instance, employers are likely to pick candidates attending the school in their home region. There is not some magic cutoff at #25, and GW is probably going to beat BC in DC, if the students are otherwise similar.

You've got the cause and effect backwards. The relative groupings exist because these schools have differing levels of reputation, and attract different levels of student quality. And thus they get ranked by USNWR that way. It isn't because of the USNWR that they have their respect.

The top schools have been the top schools before USNWR and will be after USNWR.

USNWR is rough cloudy reflection of what already exists.

It's why Boalt employment placement didn't sky rocket when it suddenly was a top 6 school on USNWR. It still places like the rest of the T13.

They put students with low LSAT scores in the night division.

this makes me every time. Viva la T13.