Law School Rankings

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Fef619
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Law School Rankings

Postby Fef619 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:10 pm

What is the difference between http://www.lawschool100.com/ and U.S. News rankings? Some schools that are not top tier in U.S. News are considered top tier on lawschool100. Which site is more reliable? Sorry if this question has already been asked. Thanks.

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webbylu87
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby webbylu87 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:13 pm

+1

I've never seen this before. I'd be interested to hear what people think too.

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holydonkey
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby holydonkey » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:18 pm

Fef619 wrote:What is the difference between http://www.lawschool100.com/ and U.S. News rankings? Some schools that are not top tier in U.S. News are considered top tier on lawschool100. Which site is more reliable? Sorry if this question has already been asked. Thanks.
Definitely lawschool100.

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webbylu87
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby webbylu87 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:21 pm

holydonkey wrote:
Fef619 wrote:What is the difference between http://www.lawschool100.com/ and U.S. News rankings? Some schools that are not top tier in U.S. News are considered top tier on lawschool100. Which site is more reliable? Sorry if this question has already been asked. Thanks.
Definitely lawschool100.


Clearly USNWR is more legit, I'm just wondering if anyone has ever looked at lawschool100's methodology. I would by no means make a decision based on that. Just curious.

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legalease9
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby legalease9 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:23 pm

Anyone know what the Law School 100 is actually based on?

Fef619
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby Fef619 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:26 pm

It seems this is a contentious issue. One person says lawschool100 is more legit while another argues in favor of U.S. news. Do employers consider both rankings before hiring? ...or do employers prefer one over the other..

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webbylu87
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby webbylu87 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:28 pm

Fef619 wrote:It seems this is a contentious issue. One person says lawschool100 is more legit while another argues in favor of U.S. news. Do employers consider both rankings before hiring? ...or do employers prefer one over the other..


Go with USNWR. HolyDonkey was being sarcastic.

Z3RO
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby Z3RO » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:29 pm

LOL @ GeorgeTTTown ranked above Duke.

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jlnoa0915
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby jlnoa0915 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:32 pm

Lets be serious, this is the most legit ranking system out there:
--LinkRemoved--

Fef619
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby Fef619 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:33 pm

jlnoa0915 wrote:Lets be serious, this is the most legit ranking system out there:
--LinkRemoved--



LOL...I have seen this....Thomas Cooley is not biased or anything.

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beach_terror
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby beach_terror » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:34 pm

Thomas M. Cooley Law School... better than Fordham since 2008.

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Rand M.
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby Rand M. » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:35 pm

legalease9 wrote:Anyone know what the Law School 100 is actually based on?


That's one of the main knocks on this ranking system. Its methodology is not at all clear and they don't really do anything to clear that up. Its pretty useless for that and a number of other reasons.

ze2151
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby ze2151 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:36 pm

that's pretty unethical. i had never seen those cooley ranks before.

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danquayle
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby danquayle » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:37 pm

Fef619 wrote:It seems this is a contentious issue. One person says lawschool100 is more legit while another argues in favor of U.S. news. Do employers consider both rankings before hiring? ...or do employers prefer one over the other..


I don't think employers actively look at either. The relevant question is which has a larger effect on the reputation of a law school over an extended period of time. In other words, which rankings have move of a footprint in the public mind. That's clearly US News. You can get into the entire lay v. professional opinion thing, but I think thats a red herring with regards to ranking. I do not think professionals pay attention to rankings per se. The only way they would pay attention is if the rankings led public opinion, and then that public opinion seeped into their perceptions.

To the extent that they might pay attention, its probably more as a "horse race." More entertainment than anything else.

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holydonkey
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby holydonkey » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:40 pm

Fef619 wrote:
jlnoa0915 wrote:Lets be serious, this is the most legit ranking system out there:
--LinkRemoved--

LOL...I have seen this....Thomas Cooley is not biased or anything.
You think this isn't legit?

Everyone in the legal world knows American University is a far better school than Penn! US News is just scared of the Southstreet Ganglords.

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kissy
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby kissy » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:16 pm

jlnoa0915 wrote:Lets be serious, this is the most legit ranking system out there:
--LinkRemoved--

charlesjd
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby charlesjd » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:24 pm

From what I have heard... employers do not look or even care in most cases, they have certain schools in mind from the region that they hire from. They also may hire from their alma mater, know a schools reputation, and obviously they know the T14. Then there are family connections, which in most parts, give someone edge or anyone else.

For instance a firm in Cleveland will hire from OSU over Minnesota or Indiana, even though both are higher ranked. Then comes the T14, which have an upper hand on almost everyone else.

I have heard this from partners in biglaw, medium, and small. I was interested in this question. I also saw anonymous answering on here say this also.

What is more legit? No ida. Overall rankings are pointless. NLJ rankings of the go-to schools and what not are much better. If you want public interest, biglaw, etc, those rankings can tell you where to go..

If the best school you get into is FU, or ASU, and you want to practice tin LA, you are stupid for gauging your decision just because they are ranked higher than Loyola LA, Pepperdine, etc.

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KibblesAndVick
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby KibblesAndVick » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:30 pm

If you switch Yale with Harvard and Duke with Georgetown, you get the common TLS tiers of Y > HS > CCN > BMVP DNC > G and the rest of the TTT.

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gdane
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby gdane » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:30 pm

Employers dont care about rankings. They do not care whatsoever. employers do not consult USNWR when hiring people.

"Hmm... You went to University of Florida? Its ranked 51... I have a George Mason grad here too. GMU is ranked 38. I think ill go with him". This scenario is very unlikely to happen solely because of the rankings.

I base my opinion off of conversations ive had with professors that are very close to actual attorney's and a family member that works as an administrative assistant at Holland and Knight here in Miami. She tells me that the hiring partner hires from all types of schools regardless of rankings. Of course on thing she stressed was that the "less prestigious" your school was, the more impeccable your grades had to be. She gave me an example of an NYU student that was hired with decent grades, while an FIU grad that was hired was one of the top 10 people in her class, on moot court and all that stuff.

I personally believe that rankings should be used loosely. After the top 25 or so, they go out the window. What makes number 28 GW better than number 30 Fordham? What makes number 26 BC better than number 28 GW? These rankings are very detrimental to the study of law and force students to base their decisions off of what a magazine says.

When it comes down to making a decision a student should ask "Will I get a good education? Will I be able to pass the Bar exam? Will i be able to secure meaningful employment after graduation?", not "What rank is my school according to USNWR?".

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nealric
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby nealric » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:32 pm

If you switch Yale with Harvard and Duke with Georgetown, you get the common TLS tiers of Y > HS > CCN > BMVP DNC > G and the rest of the TTT.


The idea that GULC exists in a different (and lower) tier then Cornell is absurd.

Pearalegal
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby Pearalegal » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:34 pm

gdane5 wrote:I personally believe that rankings should be used loosely. After the top 25 or so, they go out the window. What makes number 28 GW better than number 30 Fordham? What makes number 26 BC better than number 28 GW? These rankings are very detrimental to the study of law and force students to base their decisions off of what a magazine says.



Completely agree with this. Employeers are aware of the T25, because thats usually a different tier of firms looking at such schools. Basing a decision on that is still silly though, as even in the T14, region and career goals should motive your decision.

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KibblesAndVick
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby KibblesAndVick » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:37 pm

gdane5 wrote:When it comes down to making a decision a student should ask "Will I get a good education? Will I be able to pass the Bar exam? Will i be able to secure meaningful employment after graduation?", not "What rank is my school according to USNWR?".


I completely agree that these are the important underlying concerns. But, would you agree that the favorability of the answers to these questions highly correlates to the rank of your school in the USNWR rankings? Harvard will get you a superb education, the vast majority of their graduates pass the bar on their first try, and their job prospects are top notch. The fact that they are ranked #2 doesn't cause this but there is a strong correlation. I suppose this becomes much less meaningful when looking at schools comparable to each other in the rankings (T10 vs T10 or T50 vs T50).

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KibblesAndVick
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby KibblesAndVick » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:38 pm

nealric wrote:
If you switch Yale with Harvard and Duke with Georgetown, you get the common TLS tiers of Y > HS > CCN > BMVP DNC > G and the rest of the TTT.


The idea that GULC exists in a different (and lower) tier then Cornell is absurd.


I agree. I'm just saying that these rankings could have been made by a subtle Georgetown troll posing as a Harvard troll to throw everyone off their tracks.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby OperaSoprano » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:43 pm

gdane5 wrote:Employers dont care about rankings. They do not care whatsoever. employers do not consult USNWR when hiring people.

"Hmm... You went to University of Florida? Its ranked 51... I have a George Mason grad here too. GMU is ranked 38. I think ill go with him". This scenario is very unlikely to happen solely because of the rankings.

I base my opinion off of conversations ive had with professors that are very close to actual attorney's and a family member that works as an administrative assistant at Holland and Knight here in Miami. She tells me that the hiring partner hires from all types of schools regardless of rankings. Of course on thing she stressed was that the "less prestigious" your school was, the more impeccable your grades had to be. She gave me an example of an NYU student that was hired with decent grades, while an FIU grad that was hired was one of the top 10 people in her class, on moot court and all that stuff.

I personally believe that rankings should be used loosely. After the top 25 or so, they go out the window. What makes number 28 GW better than number 30 Fordham? What makes number 26 BC better than number 28 GW? These rankings are very detrimental to the study of law and force students to base their decisions off of what a magazine says.

When it comes down to making a decision a student should ask "Will I get a good education? Will I be able to pass the Bar exam? Will i be able to secure meaningful employment after graduation?", not "What rank is my school according to USNWR?".


Rankings seem to matter in relative groupings after the T14, plus Vandy/UCLA/UT. Within the 20-30 range, for instance, employers are likely to pick candidates attending the school in their home region. There is not some magic cutoff at #25, and GW is probably going to beat BC in DC, if the students are otherwise similar.

Big differences in rankings still matter. The BC grad is going to have a much better shot at employment than someone attending, say, Catholic or UDC, grades and experience being equal. There is a tendency for some to believe that they will be able to guarantee high rank if they attend a lesser school, and the problem with this is that the correlation between entering numbers and first year performance is modest at best. People go to higher ranked schools to buy themselves some margin for error. I would love to be in the top 10 people in my class, but I'm glad I picked a school that will hopefully make me employable even though I'm not. I recognize, however, that I'll still need to be toward the top of my class.

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baboon309
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Re: Law School Rankings

Postby baboon309 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:43 pm

gdane5 wrote:Employers dont care about rankings. They do not care whatsoever. employers do not consult USNWR when hiring people.

"Hmm... You went to University of Florida? Its ranked 51... I have a George Mason grad here too. GMU is ranked 38. I think ill go with him". This scenario is very unlikely to happen solely because of the rankings.

I base my opinion off of conversations ive had with professors that are very close to actual attorney's and a family member that works as an administrative assistant at Holland and Knight here in Miami. She tells me that the hiring partner hires from all types of schools regardless of rankings. Of course on thing she stressed was that the "less prestigious" your school was, the more impeccable your grades had to be. She gave me an example of an NYU student that was hired with decent grades, while an FIU grad that was hired was one of the top 10 people in her class, on moot court and all that stuff.

I personally believe that rankings should be used loosely. After the top 25 or so, they go out the window. What makes number 28 GW better than number 30 Fordham? What makes number 26 BC better than number 28 GW? These rankings are very detrimental to the study of law and force students to base their decisions off of what a magazine says.

When it comes down to making a decision a student should ask "Will I get a good education? Will I be able to pass the Bar exam? Will i be able to secure meaningful employment after graduation?", not "What rank is my school according to USNWR?".


Why top 25?




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