Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.

Which of these colleges/universities "needs" a law school?

Poll ended at Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:24 pm

MIT
19
5%
Cal Tech
5
1%
Princeton
98
27%
Johns Hopkins
18
5%
Brown
44
12%
Dartmouth
52
14%
Rice
21
6%
Carnegie Mellon
4
1%
All of the above
4
1%
Close several, but no new ones
95
26%
 
Total votes: 360

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soullesswonder
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby soullesswonder » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:58 pm

The only new law schools that should be considered are those based on the NCCU model - public schools with dirt cheap tuition (below 10k a year for residents) that can give less-qualified applicants a legal education that won't saddle them with massive amounts of debt or prevent them from pursuing PI work. Even then, every one of those NCCU clones should probably replace a TTT debt trap located in the same state.

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PDaddy
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby PDaddy » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:54 pm

That's a nice idea, although I don't know what you mean by "less qualified". In my mind, either someone can be a lawyer or they can't.

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chicoalto0649
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby chicoalto0649 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:07 pm

sawwaverunner wrote:University of Rochester (Law School). There is no law school in Rochester--although they are planning on opening St. John Fisher Law and Nazareth Law :(.

U of R is a top ranked undergraduate institution, has an excellent Med School, and is just overall, a respected school. Nevertheless people will say NY doesn't need anymore law schools, so who needs Pace, NYLS, and Hofstra (they are too expensive!).


ROFL gtfo...... man UB must have really gone down hill if they cant get their grads to fill the needs of the rochester legal market.

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PDaddy
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby PDaddy » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:09 pm

I'd love to see Johns Hopkins have a school. It could specialize in IP, health law and government/international law.

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chicoalto0649
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby chicoalto0649 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:19 pm

PDaddy wrote:I'd love to see Johns Hopkins have a school. It could specialize in IP, health law and government/international law.


Seton Hall specializes in all of the above and is not too far away from Baltimore.

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bostonlawchick
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby bostonlawchick » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:34 pm

Mr. Pablo wrote:
facetious wrote:no offense to roger williams law school, but ri needs some top law school representation. providence is a great city on the rebound and brown really needs to work on its grad programs. they are essentially all TTT; the only thing that keeps us alive is our UG program. plus i am sick of walking around seeing our med students think they are the only grad students who can get a job (which is probably true). so, i nominate the brown university school of law.

/ug trolling. in all seriousness, the last thing brown needs is a law school. i dont even know if there is a legal market in providence that doesn't involve prosecuting the mafioso or corrupt state officials.


I have lived here for 6 years (all after UG), and I think this mostly true. My cousin is at one of the 'big' Provo firms, and most of their work is bankruptcy (plenty of that here), estates, real estate, collections litigation, etc... Fleet Bank had it headquarter here and that was a significant source of legal work, but BOA bought it and shipped that work elsewhere.


I've lived here my whole life and for some reason, no one seems to understand why I would want to leave. After I told a friend of mine that I wanted to go to law school, he told me his dad knows Brian Cunha, and that he could help me out after graduation. I swear most of this state aspires to be less than mediocre.

/anti-RI rant

ChrisC
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby ChrisC » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:43 pm

Close:

Regent, Florida Coastal, Florida A&M, Liberty, Ave Maria, Detroit Mercy.

Put a 10 year moratorium on accrediting any new schools.

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im_blue
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby im_blue » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:45 pm

PDaddy wrote:
ViP wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
ViP wrote:
Chicago Kent has had a law school since 1888. At that time they weren't a tech school. They merged with the Illinois Inst. of Technology in 1969, only then becoming a tech school that offers law.

In any case, CalTech is not your typical tech school.


Understood. Can you tell me why it would be impractical for a tech school to have a law school? And, can you further tell me why MIT or Cal Tech couldn't be dominant in the IP field? Thirdly, couldn't Cali use another elite law school and close others like Golden Gate?


Never said it was impractical for a tech school to have a law school, and never said anything about MIT. Of the top tech schools, MIT is the best option for a law school.

CalTech is a very unique school, and it's a mistake to compare MIT to CalTech in this conversation. MIT is a large university with 5 schools and over 10,000 students. CalTech is a very, very small school (2,000 students) that really specializes in engineering and the sciences.

And no new school in California will be an "elite" school for many, many years (UC Irvine is giving it their best shot).


I will give you points on the size of Cal Tech. That's important. But the money is there. Maybe Cal-Tech would only have a class of 150. Your statement about no new school in Cali being elite for many years is overreaching. If Irvine can do it, why not Cal Tech? What's the real calculus in your reasoning besides the size of the student body?

Caltech would open a med school before a law school IMO, because they have top notch biology and chemistry faculty and facilities. Even a B-school (math, econ) would be more likely. Law professors are often interdisciplinary with depts such as Poli Sci and Philosophy, which are basically nonexistent at Caltech. Also keep in mind that their entire grad population is around 900-1000, so any new law school there would have 50 students a year max (which still makes 150 law students).

An MIT law school would instantly rank #1 in IP and steal Stanford/Berkeley students.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby prezidentv8 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:53 pm

Wait a tic...did you just compare MIT/Caltech/Princeton to Irvine?

Mr. Pablo
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby Mr. Pablo » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:54 pm

bostonlawchick wrote:
Mr. Pablo wrote:
facetious wrote:no offense to roger williams law school, but ri needs some top law school representation. providence is a great city on the rebound and brown really needs to work on its grad programs. they are essentially all TTT; the only thing that keeps us alive is our UG program. plus i am sick of walking around seeing our med students think they are the only grad students who can get a job (which is probably true). so, i nominate the brown university school of law.

/ug trolling. in all seriousness, the last thing brown needs is a law school. i dont even know if there is a legal market in providence that doesn't involve prosecuting the mafioso or corrupt state officials.


I have lived here for 6 years (all after UG), and I think this mostly true. My cousin is at one of the 'big' Provo firms, and most of their work is bankruptcy (plenty of that here), estates, real estate, collections litigation, etc... Fleet Bank had it headquarter here and that was a significant source of legal work, but BOA bought it and shipped that work elsewhere.


I've lived here my whole life and for some reason, no one seems to understand why I would want to leave. After I told a friend of mine that I wanted to go to law school, he told me his dad knows Brian Cunha, and that he could help me out after graduation. I swear most of this state aspires to be less than mediocre.

/anti-RI rant

Oh, lil'Rhody. When I moved here I couldn't get over how everyone knew everyone else. Frankly, I'm surprised your friend wasn't related to Cunha. I think one of my co-workers is somehow related to half the state. I'd be shocked if we haven't met, actually.

edited for spelling

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sawwaverunner
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby sawwaverunner » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:10 am

chicoalto0649 wrote:
sawwaverunner wrote:University of Rochester (Law School). There is no law school in Rochester--although they are planning on opening St. John Fisher Law and Nazareth Law :(.

U of R is a top ranked undergraduate institution, has an excellent Med School, and is just overall, a respected school. Nevertheless people will say NY doesn't need anymore law schools, so who needs Pace, NYLS, and Hofstra (they are too expensive!).


ROFL gtfo...... man UB must have really gone down hill if they cant get their grads to fill the needs of the rochester legal market.


Well, to be honest, the best situation would be no Syracuse OR Buffalo law and just have Rochester Law. But Rochester would have to cut back on the tuition big time. It's still an awesome school.

elmagic
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby elmagic » Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:53 pm

I think the only private school that could potentially offer good job prospects and a good reputation and climb in the rankings is Rice. It's in Houston which basically only has UT and SMU, and a school like Rice would be much better off. The only problem is they should have done so 60 years ago. They'd probably be ranked ahead of UT even.

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deadpanic
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby deadpanic » Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:47 pm

I don't think there should be any, and definitely no Ivy Leaguers. Can you imagine having Princeton Law, founded in 201X, provisionally accredited...it just wouldn't be the same.

elmagic wrote:It's in Houston which basically only has UT and SMU, and a school like Rice would be much better off.


...and UH?

reverendt
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby reverendt » Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:58 pm

I gotta say...I do think it's funny that a bunch of 0Ls (and some others) are passing judgment on law schools.....like they think they know something....

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HJO
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby HJO » Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:47 pm

reverendt wrote:I gotta say...I do think it's funny that a bunch of 0Ls (and some others) are passing judgment on law schools.....like they think they know something....


You're right, current law students would be a lot better at meaningless speculation/ideas about what schools could have or should have a law school.

/your life.

reverendt
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby reverendt » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:38 pm

HJO wrote:
reverendt wrote:I gotta say...I do think it's funny that a bunch of 0Ls (and some others) are passing judgment on law schools.....like they think they know something....


You're right, current law students would be a lot better at meaningless speculation/ideas about what schools could have or should have a law school.

/your life.


If you read carefully, you'll see that the phrase "and some others" leaves the door open to include current law students within the scope of my statement....

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chicagolaw2013
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby chicagolaw2013 » Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:07 pm

I think that West Point and the Naval and Air Force Academies should all have law schools. Anyone interested in JAG would have to go through their programs, and as such, each school would have a program that specifically focuses on military law. I think you'd end up with better military lawyers that way.

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PDaddy
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby PDaddy » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:06 am

chicagolaw2013 wrote:I think that West Point and the Naval and Air Force Academies should all have law schools. Anyone interested in JAG would have to go through their programs, and as such, each school would have a program that specifically focuses on military law. I think you'd end up with better military lawyers that way.



+1 I wonder why they don't.

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PDaddy
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby PDaddy » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:08 am

deadpanic wrote:I don't think there should be any, and definitely no Ivy Leaguers. Can you imagine having Princeton Law, founded in 201X, provisionally accredited...it just wouldn't be the same.

elmagic wrote:It's in Houston which basically only has UT and SMU, and a school like Rice would be much better off.


...and UH?


If any state can stand to have more schools, it's Texas. Rice should definitely have a school, and Texas Southern, Texas Wesleyan and a couple ofthers could close.

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PDaddy
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby PDaddy » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:12 am

im_blue wrote:Caltech would open a med school before a law school IMO, because they have top notch biology and chemistry faculty and facilities. Even a B-school (math, econ) would be more likely. Law professors are often interdisciplinary with depts such as Poli Sci and Philosophy, which are basically nonexistent at Caltech. Also keep in mind that their entire grad population is around 900-1000, so any new law school there would have 50 students a year max (which still makes 150 law students).

An MIT law school would instantly rank #1 in IP and steal Stanford/Berkeley students.


You're right on with that one. And M.I.T. should definitely have a school. I'm just puzzled about M.I.T., Rice, and Johns Hopkins, as well as the armed forces academies.

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PDaddy
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby PDaddy » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:13 am

ChrisC wrote:Close:

Regent, Florida Coastal, Florida A&M, Liberty, Ave Maria, Detroit Mercy.

Put a 10 year moratorium on accrediting any new schools.


You don't want to close Cooley, Texas Southern, John Marshall (ATL) and Golden Gate?

You have to admit that if we could get the 10-12 worst schools in the country to close down and add 5-6 prestigious ones, just about everyone could go for that.
Last edited by PDaddy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

CyLaw
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby CyLaw » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:14 am

PDaddy wrote:
Other schools you might consider are Brandeis, Amherst, Smith, Spelman, Moorehouse, Wellesley, Swarthmoore, Colgate, Davidson, Tufts, GA. Tech, Purdue, Air Force, and Navy.


Blatant anti-Army trolling.

I approve.

CyLaw
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby CyLaw » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:18 am

PDaddy wrote:
chicagolaw2013 wrote:I think that West Point and the Naval and Air Force Academies should all have law schools. Anyone interested in JAG would have to go through their programs, and as such, each school would have a program that specifically focuses on military law. I think you'd end up with better military lawyers that way.



+1 I wonder why they don't.


The academies don't since they don't do any graduate education (that I am aware of). As for why they don't do it at NPS or AFIT, that is because the military likes to use civilian education for the most part for generalized training in a field. Note that each branch does require there lawyers to go through special training in the law related to their service, which is after law school and officer training (for those that need it).

Edit: See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Advocate_General%27s_Corps#Special_training for the list of schools required for JAGs in each branch.

dalancas
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby dalancas » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:22 am

No way! CalTech and MIT have surprisingly strong PoliSci programs! In fact, their use of statistical methods are pretty much the hottest thing in the field right now!

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Cupidity
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby Cupidity » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:17 am

Open Brandeis, close Florida coastal




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