Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.

Which of these colleges/universities "needs" a law school?

Poll ended at Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:24 pm

MIT
19
5%
Cal Tech
5
1%
Princeton
98
27%
Johns Hopkins
18
5%
Brown
44
12%
Dartmouth
52
14%
Rice
21
6%
Carnegie Mellon
4
1%
All of the above
4
1%
Close several, but no new ones
95
26%
 
Total votes: 360

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PDaddy
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Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby PDaddy » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:24 pm

It looks like UC-Irvine is going to be very good for legal education. That makes me wonder why other similarly prestigious schools don't consider opening law schools? Admittedly, they are cash cows that generate lots of money with little upkeep or overhead.

So, run it! Which law schools need to close and which colleges and universities should consider opening law schools?

If there's a "swap" of sorts that you'd love to see for geographical reasons (ex: "close Cooley and open Purdue, swapping one midwest school for another), say that.

Other schools you might consider are Brandeis, Amherst, Smith, Spelman, Moorehouse, Wellesley, Swarthmoore, Colgate, Davidson, Tufts, GA. Tech, Purdue, Air Force, and Navy.

If there's a school you'd favor that isn't on the list, do tell.

Back your answers up with evidence or at least personal reasoning, i.e. "lay prestige" of the college as a whole, etc. No silly answers like "Cose everything outside of T14!"
Last edited by PDaddy on Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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puppleberry finn
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby puppleberry finn » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:30 pm

.
Last edited by puppleberry finn on Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

reverendt
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby reverendt » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:31 pm

i dont think any new schools should be opened. They should close t3 & t4 schools in markets that already have enough t1 & t2 schools (New England school of law, NYLS, etc.) The exception would be a school like Suffolk, where they offer a part time program that the other local schools don't.
Why would you open a law school, say, at Carnegie Mellon, when Pitt & Duquesne provide more than enough lawyers for Western PA? Why open one at Princeton, when Columbia & Penn provide plenty of ivy league lawyers for that area?

cubswin
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby cubswin » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:32 pm

:?:

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PDaddy
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby PDaddy » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:35 pm

Maybe Duquesne should close. Just a thought. Maybe some of the T3 and T4 schools in the NY and NE areas should close. I could do without some of those.

How about some of the lousy southern law schools? Maybe they should close in favor of others.
Last edited by PDaddy on Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ViP
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby ViP » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:35 pm

CalTech School of Law Class of Never

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PDaddy
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby PDaddy » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:40 pm

ViP wrote:CalTech School of Law Class of Never


I wouldn't be so sure about that. If Chicago Kent can have a successful law school, some other tech schools can do the same.

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GATORTIM
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby GATORTIM » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:46 pm

Define "cose"

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rayiner
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby rayiner » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:47 pm

Boston doesn't need another law school, but man, how awesome would "MIT School of Law" be?

ViP
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby ViP » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:49 pm

PDaddy wrote:
ViP wrote:CalTech School of Law Class of Never


I wouldn't be so sure about that. If Chicago Kent can have a successful law school, some other tech schools can do the same.


Chicago Kent has had a law school since 1888. At that time they weren't a tech school. They merged with the Illinois Inst. of Technology in 1969, only then becoming a tech school that offers law.

In any case, CalTech is not your typical tech school.

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Borhas
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby Borhas » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:49 pm

rayiner wrote:Boston doesn't need another law school, but man, how awesome would "MIT School of Law" be?


it would have to be ranked #1 by default

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PDaddy
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby PDaddy » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:57 pm

ViP wrote:
Chicago Kent has had a law school since 1888. At that time they weren't a tech school. They merged with the Illinois Inst. of Technology in 1969, only then becoming a tech school that offers law.

In any case, CalTech is not your typical tech school.


Understood. I should remind you, however, that Kent is an IP-oriented school because of IIT. So it doesn't really matter how Kent started, what counts is what the school is now. Can you tell me why it would be impractical for a tech school to have a law school? And, can you further tell me why MIT or Cal Tech couldn't be dominant in the IP field? Thirdly, couldn't Cali use another elite law school and close others like Golden Gate?
Last edited by PDaddy on Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sawwaverunner
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby sawwaverunner » Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:59 pm

University of Rochester (Law School). There is no law school in Rochester--although they are planning on opening St. John Fisher Law and Nazareth Law :(.

U of R is a top ranked undergraduate institution, has an excellent Med School, and is just overall, a respected school. Nevertheless people will say NY doesn't need anymore law schools, so who needs Pace, NYLS, and Hofstra (they are too expensive!).

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Kohinoor
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby Kohinoor » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:06 pm

Dartmouth. I could be in Hanover playing real beer pong.

Mr. Pablo
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby Mr. Pablo » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:12 pm

PDaddy wrote:
ViP wrote:
Chicago Kent has had a law school since 1888. At that time they weren't a tech school. They merged with the Illinois Inst. of Technology in 1969, only then becoming a tech school that offers law.

In any case, CalTech is not your typical tech school.


Understood. Can you tell me why it would be impractical for a tech school to have a law school? And, can you further tell me why MIT or Cal Tech couldn't be dominant in the IP field? Thirdly, couldn't Cali use another elite law school and close others like Golden Gate?


Think through this for a moment. I'll go with the MIT law thing because I am most familiar with the Mass. Schools.
So, hypothetically, MIT has a LS, and it is one of the best. It ranks up there in the T14. Suffolk simply can't compete with H, MIT, BU, BC, N.Eastern, etc.., and it closes. This means Suffolk isn't at the bottom anymore, Northeastern is at the bottom and everyone just shifts down a bit in the rankings.
You still end up with schools that are considered 3rd and 4th tier, even if they are just as 'good' (in an absolute sense) as they were before, they are now relatively less well regarded. Instead of being tier 2, Northwestern is tier 3. What really changes aside from the name at the bottom?
Many more schools would have to close than open if there were to be a re-concentration of status.


edit: I am not making a statement about these particular schools. I probably would have done better to say schools X Y Z etc..

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holydonkey
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby holydonkey » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:15 pm

Princeton and Johns Hopkins. New Jersey and Maryland deserve to have great law schools.

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AdmiralNelson
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby AdmiralNelson » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:17 pm

Not sure if any school ever "needs" a law school.

But I'll tell you what, if I thought I could field a top-25 contending law school, I sure as hell would. Why wouldn't I want thousands of applicants jockeying for position to throw $120,000 at me?

I've been working in an administrative capacity at a university for about a year now, and I can tell you, it's not particularly inspiring to see the sausage being made. It's all about the bottom line, i.e. bringing in enough number-qualified cattle at sticker price to cover scholarships and professor salaries.

A reputable law school can be quite a good long-term investment.

ViP
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby ViP » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:17 pm

PDaddy wrote:
ViP wrote:
Chicago Kent has had a law school since 1888. At that time they weren't a tech school. They merged with the Illinois Inst. of Technology in 1969, only then becoming a tech school that offers law.

In any case, CalTech is not your typical tech school.


Understood. Can you tell me why it would be impractical for a tech school to have a law school? And, can you further tell me why MIT or Cal Tech couldn't be dominant in the IP field? Thirdly, couldn't Cali use another elite law school and close others like Golden Gate?


Never said it was impractical for a tech school to have a law school, and never said anything about MIT. Of the top tech schools, MIT is the best option for a law school.

CalTech is a very unique school, and it's a mistake to compare MIT to CalTech in this conversation. MIT is a large university with 5 schools and over 10,000 students. CalTech is a very, very small school (2,000 students) that really specializes in engineering and the sciences.

And no new school in California will be an "elite" school for many, many years (UC Irvine is giving it their best shot).

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facetious
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby facetious » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:21 pm

no offense to roger williams law school, but ri needs some top law school representation. providence is a great city on the rebound and brown really needs to work on its grad programs. they are essentially all TTT; the only thing that keeps us alive is our UG program. plus i am sick of walking around seeing our med students think they are the only grad students who can get a job (which is probably true). so, i nominate the brown university school of law.

/ug trolling. in all seriousness, the last thing brown needs is a law school. i dont even know if there is a legal market in providence that doesn't involve prosecuting the mafioso or corrupt state officials.

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PDaddy
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby PDaddy » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:28 pm

ViP wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
ViP wrote:
Chicago Kent has had a law school since 1888. At that time they weren't a tech school. They merged with the Illinois Inst. of Technology in 1969, only then becoming a tech school that offers law.

In any case, CalTech is not your typical tech school.


Understood. Can you tell me why it would be impractical for a tech school to have a law school? And, can you further tell me why MIT or Cal Tech couldn't be dominant in the IP field? Thirdly, couldn't Cali use another elite law school and close others like Golden Gate?


Never said it was impractical for a tech school to have a law school, and never said anything about MIT. Of the top tech schools, MIT is the best option for a law school.

CalTech is a very unique school, and it's a mistake to compare MIT to CalTech in this conversation. MIT is a large university with 5 schools and over 10,000 students. CalTech is a very, very small school (2,000 students) that really specializes in engineering and the sciences.

And no new school in California will be an "elite" school for many, many years (UC Irvine is giving it their best shot).


I will give you points on the size of Cal Tech. That's important. But the money is there. Maybe Cal-Tech would only have a class of 150. Your statement about no new school in Cali being elite for many years is overreaching. If Irvine can do it, why not Cal Tech? What's the real calculus in your reasoning besides the size of the student body?
Last edited by PDaddy on Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mr. Pablo
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby Mr. Pablo » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:28 pm

facetious wrote:no offense to roger williams law school, but ri needs some top law school representation. providence is a great city on the rebound and brown really needs to work on its grad programs. they are essentially all TTT; the only thing that keeps us alive is our UG program. plus i am sick of walking around seeing our med students think they are the only grad students who can get a job (which is probably true). so, i nominate the brown university school of law.

/ug trolling. in all seriousness, the last thing brown needs is a law school. i dont even know if there is a legal market in providence that doesn't involve prosecuting the mafioso or corrupt state officials.


I have lived here for 6 years (all after UG), and I think this mostly true. My cousin is at one of the 'big' Provo firms, and most of their work is bankruptcy (plenty of that here), estates, real estate, collections litigation, etc... Fleet Bank had it headquarter here and that was a significant source of legal work, but BOA bought it and shipped that work elsewhere.

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PDaddy
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby PDaddy » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:33 pm

sawwaverunner wrote:University of Rochester (Law School). There is no law school in Rochester--although they are planning on opening St. John Fisher Law and Nazareth Law :(.

U of R is a top ranked undergraduate institution, has an excellent Med School, and is just overall, a respected school. Nevertheless people will say NY doesn't need anymore law schools, so who needs Pace, NYLS, and Hofstra (they are too expensive!).



+1!

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sarcasmpolice
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby sarcasmpolice » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:54 pm

Anti Williams trolling imo.

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A'nold
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby A'nold » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:08 pm

I think WA State needs to get rid of Gonzaga (Seattle U. at least takes care of pt. students in the area that work at Microsoft, Boeing, etc.) and open up a more attainable state school like Central, Western, or WSU for applicants that can't get into UW but can still get in-state rates.

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gatorlion
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Re: Please close "these" law schools, and open "those"!

Postby gatorlion » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:27 pm

California could close at least 15 law schools (i.e. PCOL, Cal Western, Western State, JFK, Santa Barbara, Lincoln, Taft, Aristotle, etc.) and be in no worse shape for it.




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