Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

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ViP
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Re: Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

Postby ViP » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:40 am

Allagion wrote:I don't see how UCI grads will take jobs from Chapman grads. UCI is focused on environmental, international, and public interest with Chemerinsky at the helm. Chapman appears to produce more general/business practitioners and the tax program gives those students an edge. If UCI maintains its priorities, then I don't think most Chapman grads will have much to worry about for some time. Plus, a little healthy competition can do some good.


UCI is not training its students to become public interest lawyers; it's training its students to be the absolute best lawyers, period, upon graduation. All the local employers at ASD spoke of how excited they were to finally have a law school at UCI. They came from big firms, small firms, public interest offices, etc, and they all echoed the sentiment that the region has been begging UCI for many, many years to create a top-notch law school in Orange County.

For the time being, I don't think Chapman grads have to worry, simply because there are barely any UCI students. In the future, though, I definitely think Chapman grads will have to work much harder to compete for jobs.

JOE!
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Re: Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

Postby JOE! » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:25 am

Mr. Matlock wrote:So, what was the reaction like on campus today, Joe?


I was only in one class after people started realizing the rankings leaked, but everyone was pretty excited about it... all 2L's and 3L's in that class, so it was a little bit of relief too. Most of us came in believing this would happen, and now we know our hope wasn't misplaced, so there's some pride too (although tentative, because it isn't "official"). There were some arguments on facebook about who found out first... I didn't bother telling them that I was reading this thread as it happened, haha.

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drdolittle
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Re: Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

Postby drdolittle » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:11 am

I'm actually not surprised by this rise to T2, but I wonder if it'll persist. Already, the dean left to run for office, I think, and for a small school like Chapman the departure of a few high profile faculty will also hurt. So for those already at Chapman or attending for 1L, how confident are you this will last? And why?

total_loss
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Re: Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

Postby total_loss » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:42 am

drdolittle wrote:I'm actually not surprised by this rise to T2, but I wonder if it'll persist. Already, the dean left to run for office, I think, and for a small school like Chapman the departure of a few high profile faculty will also hurt.


Chapman's former dean remains on the faculty as a professor. From what I understand, even now he remains active in the law school while pursuing his bid for political office.

dcm81
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Re: Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

Postby dcm81 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:38 am

The reason they made TT this year is because their faculty ratios, bar passage rates, and employment stats boosted them. Their GPA/LSAT are tier 2 which help. That is unrelated to who is the dean at Chapman. So as long as they can maintain their numbers there, and get better peer scores and more qualified students to matriculate, I don't see why they can't improve their ranking. Don't expect them to jump to the 1st tier in two years though. From what I have read in the news, he is the only one leaving, and I doubt they will have a hard time finding a good replacement for him. The school is in the OC, great place to live, and they probably pay well for that position. Plus Eastman becoming AG, if it does happen will look good for the school.

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Re: Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

Postby dcm81 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:41 pm

1ferret! wrote:
cwkenneth wrote:Chapman breaks into top 100 at #93 (tied with Santa Clara and beating out USF)

This will not be a one time occurrence. They will only continue to rise through the rankings. Their near term goal is to be ranked next to Pepperdine, Loyola LA, and USD. I have talked to too many of Chapman's legal faculty and board members to believe this goal is not only attainable but realistic in the next three to five years.

Chapman Law is probably one of the best kept secrets.



1.9/2.3 peer review ratings. Those numbers don't change quickly, and are a huge chunk of the current USNews evaluation. Chapman can increase its stats in other ways, but the peer review will keep them from rising as quickly as you might like.
The ten point jump you are proposing as realistic in the short run (Chapman is currently at 43 and would need to go to 53 to be up with Pepperdine and Loyola) while not unheard of is less than realistic. If Pepperdine and Loyola jumped ten points they would both be in the T30.
Glad to see Chapman where its at, but that degree of change would be startling.


I doubt you will see Loyola, USD, and Pepperdine rise to the top 30. They are tier 2 caliber schools lets not get carried away here. Chapman's goal is to get to the top 50, and they probably have 10-15 years to get there because the peer reviews are going to hold them down a bit. But I doubt the schools they are competing with are going to do much better lng term. I don't see a USD, Pepperdine, or Loyola JD on the same level as a UC Hastings.

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1ferret!
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Re: Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

Postby 1ferret! » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:58 pm

dcm81 wrote:
1ferret! wrote:
cwkenneth wrote:Chapman breaks into top 100 at #93 (tied with Santa Clara and beating out USF)

This will not be a one time occurrence. They will only continue to rise through the rankings. Their near term goal is to be ranked next to Pepperdine, Loyola LA, and USD. I have talked to too many of Chapman's legal faculty and board members to believe this goal is not only attainable but realistic in the next three to five years.

Chapman Law is probably one of the best kept secrets.



1.9/2.3 peer review ratings. Those numbers don't change quickly, and are a huge chunk of the current USNews evaluation. Chapman can increase its stats in other ways, but the peer review will keep them from rising as quickly as you might like.
The ten point jump you are proposing as realistic in the short run (Chapman is currently at 43 and would need to go to 53 to be up with Pepperdine and Loyola) while not unheard of is less than realistic. If Pepperdine and Loyola jumped ten points they would both be in the T30.
Glad to see Chapman where its at, but that degree of change would be startling.


I doubt you will see Loyola, USD, and Pepperdine rise to the top 30.


That was my point.

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arhmcpo
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Re: Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

Postby arhmcpo » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:05 pm

dcm81 wrote:
1ferret! wrote:
cwkenneth wrote:Chapman breaks into top 100 at #93 (tied with Santa Clara and beating out USF)

This will not be a one time occurrence. They will only continue to rise through the rankings. Their near term goal is to be ranked next to Pepperdine, Loyola LA, and USD. I have talked to too many of Chapman's legal faculty and board members to believe this goal is not only attainable but realistic in the next three to five years.

Chapman Law is probably one of the best kept secrets.



1.9/2.3 peer review ratings. Those numbers don't change quickly, and are a huge chunk of the current USNews evaluation. Chapman can increase its stats in other ways, but the peer review will keep them from rising as quickly as you might like.
The ten point jump you are proposing as realistic in the short run (Chapman is currently at 43 and would need to go to 53 to be up with Pepperdine and Loyola) while not unheard of is less than realistic. If Pepperdine and Loyola jumped ten points they would both be in the T30.
Glad to see Chapman where its at, but that degree of change would be startling.


I doubt you will see Loyola, USD, and Pepperdine rise to the top 30. They are tier 2 caliber schools lets not get carried away here. Chapman's goal is to get to the top 50, and they probably have 10-15 years to get there because the peer reviews are going to hold them down a bit. But I doubt the schools they are competing with are going to do much better lng term. I don't see a USD, Pepperdine, or Loyola JD on the same level as a UC Hastings.


This is kind of silly considering the arbitrariness of the rankings, but if UC Hastings is indeed a "#42" school, then am I understanding you correctly in stating that, you foresee Chapman being on a similar level as a Hastings JD - since you believe Chapman in a decade etc. will be a T50 school? I mean 42 v. T50 is a tiny difference in US News scores.

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Re: Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

Postby dcm81 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:33 pm

This is kind of silly considering the arbitrariness of the rankings, but if UC Hastings is indeed a "#42" school, then am I understanding you correctly in stating that, you foresee Chapman being on a similar level as a Hastings JD - since you believe Chapman in a decade etc. will be a T50 school? I mean 42 v. T50 is a tiny difference in US News scores.[/quote]

Let me clarify. I think in 10-15 years you will see Chapman at the same level where Pepperdine/USD/Loyola are. That will probably be around the top 50 range, but who knows since rankings in tier 2 tend to jump all over the place. Right now you might as well lump Chapman in with USF/McGeorge/Santa Clara, which is really good for how long they have been a law school. Chapman jumping the Pepperdine/Loyola/USD in 10-15 years, and into the UC schools club would take a miracle. But hey they jumped 40 something schools in two years so who I am to say they can't do that? I would imagine the next 50 will take at least 10-15 years because the peer scores take awhile to move up, but Pepperdine's peer scores aren't anything amazing and they are nearly in tier 1. Last year Pepperdine was ranked 55th with a peer review score of 2.4. They just do well on the bar, employment, and have good admissions stats. I think Chapman can duplicate that fairly quickly because they only need to focus on matriculating better students and their reputation to move up. Everything else to them according to the rankings already points to tier 1.

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cwkenneth
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Re: Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

Postby cwkenneth » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:14 pm

Chapman will compete in the rankings with Pepperdine, Loyola LA, and USD and it will take them about 5 years to reach do achieve this, assuming those other schools stay ranked in the 50-60 range.

My reasoning is based on a few points:

1) Chapman awards the most scholarship out of all other law school (--LinkRemoved--). As a result, this will allow them to continue to increase their admission statistics and attract brighter students. If you are a prospective law student with a 3.5 GPA a 160 lsat, would you rather attend Loyola in Los Angels where the student faculty ratio is nearly twice that of Chapman's, the campus is in a beat down depressed part of the ghetto in Los Angeles, a decent studio apartment costs $1,200 and you will come out of this "spectacular" academic institute with $120K + in debt. Or would you rather attend Chapman Law where the student faculty ratio is 8.5 to 1, the campus is located in the beautiful and safe historic district of Orange, you are no more than a 15 minute drive from the beach and Disneyland, the law building and facilities are brand new, you could rent a "luxury" studio apartment for $800 a month, and in addition to all of this, Chapman will offer you a 3 year full tuition scholarship and you come out of law school completely debt free! I know some may foolishly choose Loyola because they can't help but obsess over the "higher ranking"! But I would say a vast majority would take the Chapman option. In fact, this is the exact situation I was facing, and well, I think I made the right choice in choosing Chapman debt free over Loyola. By the way my stats were 3.5 GPA and 160 lsat.

2) Chapman is incredibly well funded, and as result, allows them to continue to attract a well recognized and distinguished faculty (i.e. Noble Laureate Vernon L Smith). If you're a noble laureate or distinguished law professor would you rather live in the cold Arlington Virginia suburb or take an increase in pay to move to sunny Southern California to pioneer your own academic legal program in an ambitious well funded academic environment?

3) Because of points 1 & 2, you now have a better faculty and brighter students, which both will presumably translate into a better education and greater bar passage rate.

4) Because of points 1, 2 & 3, the school's reputation begins to climb along with peer review scores from lawyers, judges and law school deans.

5) Because of points 1,2,3,4 & 5 the school's USNews ranking continues to increase, and soon enough, your school is now in the upper echelon of tier two schools and is bordering a tier one ranking.

If the school continues to take the steps is has been, it is only a matter of time before these hypotheticals are a reality. In fact, I think we have begun to witness this effect already with Chapman rising from a tier 4 only three years ago to moving past USF, UOP, Santa Clara and now into the top 100 in the rankings.

I have put a 5 year target on Chapman breaking into the 50-60 range. I understand this may be a stretch for some to accept, but I really do think its not far from reality. I certainly believe its perfectly safe to assume that a larger, 5-10 year range, will give them enough time to attain this goal.

Hope this helps anyone one the fence about attending Chapman Law.

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drdolittle
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Re: Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

Postby drdolittle » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:26 pm

cwkenneth wrote:Chapman will compete in the rankings with Pepperdine, Loyola LA, and USD and it will take them about 5 years to reach do achieve this, assuming those other schools stay ranked in the 50-60 range.

My reasoning is based on a few points:

1) Chapman awards the most scholarship out of all other law school (--LinkRemoved--). As a result, this will allow them to continue to increase their admission statistics and attract brighter students. If you are a prospective law student with a 3.5 GPA a 160 lsat, would you rather attend Loyola in Los Angels where the student faculty ratio is nearly twice that of Chapman's, the campus is in a beat down depressed part of the ghetto in Los Angeles, a decent studio apartment costs $1,200 and you will come out of this "spectacular" academic institute with $120K + in debt. Or would you rather attend Chapman Law where the student faculty ratio is 8.5 to 1, the campus is located in the beautiful and safe historic district of Orange, you are no more than a 15 minute drive from the beach and Disneyland, the law building and facilities are brand new, you could rent a "luxury" studio apartment for $800 a month, and in addition to all of this, Chapman will offer you a 3 year full tuition scholarship and you come out of law school completely debt free! I know some may foolishly choose Loyola because they can't help but obsess over the "higher ranking"! But I would say a vast majority would take the Chapman option. In fact, this is the exact situation I was facing, and well, I think I made the right choice in choosing Chapman debt free over Loyola. By the way my stats were 3.5 GPA and 160 lsat.

2) Chapman is incredibly well funded, and as result, allows them to continue to attract a well recognized and distinguished faculty (i.e. Noble Laureate Vernon L Smith). If you're a noble laureate or distinguished law professor would you rather live in the cold Arlington Virginia suburb or take an increase in pay to move to sunny Southern California to pioneer your own academic legal program in an ambitious well funded academic environment?

3) Because of points 1 & 2, you now have a better faculty and brighter students, which both will presumably translate into a better education and greater bar passage rate.

4) Because of points 1, 2 & 3, the school's reputation begins to climb along with peer review scores from lawyers, judges and law school deans.

5) Because of points 1,2,3,4 & 5 the school's USNews ranking continues to increase, and soon enough, your school is now in the upper echelon of tier two schools and is bordering a tier one ranking.

If the school continues to take the steps is has been, it is only a matter of time before these hypotheticals are a reality. In fact, I think we have begun to witness this effect already with Chapman rising from a tier 4 only three years ago to moving past USF, UOP, Santa Clara and now into the top 100 in the rankings.

I have put a 5 year target on Chapman breaking into the 50-60 range. I understand this may be a stretch for some to accept, but I really do think its not far from reality. I certainly believe its perfectly safe to assume that a larger, 5-10 year range, will give them enough time to attain this goal.

Hope this helps anyone one the fence about attending Chapman Law.


Well argued, although the 50-60 range will definitely be a stretch, especially within 5 years, because unless the lowest ranked UCs drop significantly, not enough top jobs will be available for Chapman to maintain such a relatively high ranking. Irvine's presence will also hurt in this regard. And money alone will not overcome the UCs dominance, as Chapman's undergrad has experienced. There's just too much inertia built into professional school reputation and hiring to overcome in anything less than multiple decades. Staying in T2 will likely be possible with all the resources you describe, unless of course the other typical CA T2s also somehow become more competitive.

BTW, Vernon L. Smith is definitely a Nobel Laureate, not necessarily a noble laureate tough. :)

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1ferret!
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Re: Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

Postby 1ferret! » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:19 pm

Points all well taken. However, the problem lies in your conclusion and the ambiguity of "soon enough". There is no doubt that essentially having enough cash will translate into a better quality student body and to some extent faculty, and that those factors put positive pressure on bar passage trends. The crux of the matter as I alluded to previously is that it will only take you so far. Bar passage is a very small percentage of the rankings. Will they translate into better opportunities for graduates? Most likely. However again the problem is that the rise in peer scores and the positive effect these have on rankings is a slow moving beast. A school can do much in the ways you have said to move the other numbers but the major impact comes from the peer scores/judge atty. scores. Chapman will be further hurt in this department when UCI gets into the mix as Chapman will suffer from being in the shadow of a nearby superior institution. The same things happen to all schools in the same market at a big player, something Loyola, Pepperdine (and soon Chapman) will face when schools like Colorado and Utah don't have that problem. Its a structural difficulty with the ranking system as it now stands and will provide a further downward pressure on Chapman's peer scores in the future.
Point of all this? Don't think Chapman will rise as fast as you have proposed.

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chango
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Re: Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

Postby chango » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:21 pm

cwkenneth wrote:Chapman will compete in the rankings with Pepperdine, Loyola LA, and USD and it will take them about 5 years to reach do achieve this, assuming those other schools stay ranked in the 50-60 range.

My reasoning is based on a few points:

1) Chapman awards the most scholarship out of all other law school (--LinkRemoved--). As a result, this will allow them to continue to increase their admission statistics and attract brighter students. If you are a prospective law student with a 3.5 GPA a 160 lsat, would you rather attend Loyola in Los Angels where the student faculty ratio is nearly twice that of Chapman's, the campus is in a beat down depressed part of the ghetto in Los Angeles, a decent studio apartment costs $1,200 and you will come out of this "spectacular" academic institute with $120K + in debt. Or would you rather attend Chapman Law where the student faculty ratio is 8.5 to 1, the campus is located in the beautiful and safe historic district of Orange, you are no more than a 15 minute drive from the beach and Disneyland, the law building and facilities are brand new, you could rent a "luxury" studio apartment for $800 a month, and in addition to all of this, Chapman will offer you a 3 year full tuition scholarship and you come out of law school completely debt free! I know some may foolishly choose Loyola because they can't help but obsess over the "higher ranking"! But I would say a vast majority would take the Chapman option. In fact, this is the exact situation I was facing, and well, I think I made the right choice in choosing Chapman debt free over Loyola. By the way my stats were 3.5 GPA and 160 lsat.

2) Chapman is incredibly well funded, and as result, allows them to continue to attract a well recognized and distinguished faculty (i.e. Noble Laureate Vernon L Smith). If you're a noble laureate or distinguished law professor would you rather live in the cold Arlington Virginia suburb or take an increase in pay to move to sunny Southern California to pioneer your own academic legal program in an ambitious well funded academic environment?

3) Because of points 1 & 2, you now have a better faculty and brighter students, which both will presumably translate into a better education and greater bar passage rate.

4) Because of points 1, 2 & 3, the school's reputation begins to climb along with peer review scores from lawyers, judges and law school deans.

5) Because of points 1,2,3,4 & 5 the school's USNews ranking continues to increase, and soon enough, your school is now in the upper echelon of tier two schools and is bordering a tier one ranking.

If the school continues to take the steps is has been, it is only a matter of time before these hypotheticals are a reality. In fact, I think we have begun to witness this effect already with Chapman rising from a tier 4 only three years ago to moving past USF, UOP, Santa Clara and now into the top 100 in the rankings.

I have put a 5 year target on Chapman breaking into the 50-60 range. I understand this may be a stretch for some to accept, but I really do think its not far from reality. I certainly believe its perfectly safe to assume that a larger, 5-10 year range, will give them enough time to attain this goal.

Hope this helps anyone one the fence about attending Chapman Law.



Fess up: you work for them in some capacity, right?

dcm81
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Re: Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

Postby dcm81 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:03 pm

You made some good points above about Chapman's money and scholarship, but I still think its going to take about 10 years for them to make it close to the first tier. One thing that Chapman was smart to do was improve their law school and facilities by adding better faculty and programs that help students like clinics and bar prep. The money the university puts into the school will bring better and better students, which is another important component of the rankings. I still think it will take another 10 years or so for Chapman to build the reputation to be a borderline tier 1 school. First, there aren't many Chapman alumni out there, so outside of Southern CA, its going to be harder for other schools and judges and lawyers to evaluate Chapman. Time will fix that, and it will probably take about 10 years to do that. Being a borderline tier 1 school after only 25 years in existence, 17 which they were accredited would be quite a feat.

I do disagree with those that suggest that UCI is going to bring Chapman's reputation scores down. It's been brought up time and time again by many people and it already looks like they are wrong based on this years rankings. One school alone cannot do that. Moreover, UCI is going to be a small school like Chapman and won't matriculate as many students as UCLA and Hastings. Reputation has more to do with Chapman, and perhaps a degree of collusion amongst competitor schools to keep Chapman and other opposing schools from rising in the rankings. That is one thing about the rankings I do not like. They need to make the rankings results more transparent by exposing who is voting and how they are scoring schools. But UCI is not going to cause a drop in Chapman's rankings. There is little sound reasoning that a peer grader is going to grade one school according to the schools around it. Bias, collusion, competition, and ignorance are better excuses.

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cwkenneth
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Re: Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

Postby cwkenneth » Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:05 pm

chango wrote:
cwkenneth wrote:Chapman will compete in the rankings with Pepperdine, Loyola LA, and USD and it will take them about 5 years to reach do achieve this, assuming those other schools stay ranked in the 50-60 range.

My reasoning is based on a few points:

1) Chapman awards the most scholarship out of all other law school (--LinkRemoved--). As a result, this will allow them to continue to increase their admission statistics and attract brighter students. If you are a prospective law student with a 3.5 GPA a 160 lsat, would you rather attend Loyola in Los Angels where the student faculty ratio is nearly twice that of Chapman's, the campus is in a beat down depressed part of the ghetto in Los Angeles, a decent studio apartment costs $1,200 and you will come out of this "spectacular" academic institute with $120K + in debt. Or would you rather attend Chapman Law where the student faculty ratio is 8.5 to 1, the campus is located in the beautiful and safe historic district of Orange, you are no more than a 15 minute drive from the beach and Disneyland, the law building and facilities are brand new, you could rent a "luxury" studio apartment for $800 a month, and in addition to all of this, Chapman will offer you a 3 year full tuition scholarship and you come out of law school completely debt free! I know some may foolishly choose Loyola because they can't help but obsess over the "higher ranking"! But I would say a vast majority would take the Chapman option. In fact, this is the exact situation I was facing, and well, I think I made the right choice in choosing Chapman debt free over Loyola. By the way my stats were 3.5 GPA and 160 lsat.

2) Chapman is incredibly well funded, and as result, allows them to continue to attract a well recognized and distinguished faculty (i.e. Noble Laureate Vernon L Smith). If you're a noble laureate or distinguished law professor would you rather live in the cold Arlington Virginia suburb or take an increase in pay to move to sunny Southern California to pioneer your own academic legal program in an ambitious well funded academic environment?

3) Because of points 1 & 2, you now have a better faculty and brighter students, which both will presumably translate into a better education and greater bar passage rate.

4) Because of points 1, 2 & 3, the school's reputation begins to climb along with peer review scores from lawyers, judges and law school deans.

5) Because of points 1,2,3,4 & 5 the school's USNews ranking continues to increase, and soon enough, your school is now in the upper echelon of tier two schools and is bordering a tier one ranking.

If the school continues to take the steps is has been, it is only a matter of time before these hypotheticals are a reality. In fact, I think we have begun to witness this effect already with Chapman rising from a tier 4 only three years ago to moving past USF, UOP, Santa Clara and now into the top 100 in the rankings.

I have put a 5 year target on Chapman breaking into the 50-60 range. I understand this may be a stretch for some to accept, but I really do think its not far from reality. I certainly believe its perfectly safe to assume that a larger, 5-10 year range, will give them enough time to attain this goal.

Hope this helps anyone one the fence about attending Chapman Law.



Fess up: you work for them in some capacity, right?


Haha, no!

I did my undergrad there, have developed professional/academic relationships with faculty and administration from both the business and law school, and am grateful for the opportunities and generous scholarship money the undergrad and law school has provided me.

I suppose everything I write about the school will inevitably be a little bias :). However, if you talk to most Chapman students, an overwhelming majority, even the most apathetic students, will tell you that the school is definitely not contempt with settling for mediocrity and takes noticeably proactive measures to increase its prestige. I think this is a quality that lacks in many academic institutions and is a main contributor to its continued climb in the academic rankings in many of its graduate and undergraduate programs.

For those who have decided on choosing Chapman Law, you wont regret it!

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drdolittle
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Re: Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

Postby drdolittle » Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:27 pm

cwkenneth wrote:Haha, no!

I did my undergrad there, have developed professional/academic relationships with faculty and administration from both the business and law school, and am grateful for the opportunities and generous scholarship money the undergrad and law school has provided me.

I suppose everything I write about the school will inevitably be a little bias :). However, if you talk to most Chapman students, an overwhelming majority, even the most apathetic students, will tell you that the school is definitely not contempt with settling for mediocrity and takes noticeably proactive measures to increase its prestige. I think this is a quality that lacks in many academic institutions and is a main contributor to its continued climb in the academic rankings in many of its graduate and undergraduate programs.

For those who have decided on choosing Chapman Law, you wont regret it!


Will you be going to Chapman then?

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cwkenneth
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Re: Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

Postby cwkenneth » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:29 pm

drdolittle wrote:
cwkenneth wrote:Haha, no!

I did my undergrad there, have developed professional/academic relationships with faculty and administration from both the business and law school, and am grateful for the opportunities and generous scholarship money the undergrad and law school has provided me.

I suppose everything I write about the school will inevitably be a little bias :). However, if you talk to most Chapman students, an overwhelming majority, even the most apathetic students, will tell you that the school is definitely not contempt with settling for mediocrity and takes noticeably proactive measures to increase its prestige. I think this is a quality that lacks in many academic institutions and is a main contributor to its continued climb in the academic rankings in many of its graduate and undergraduate programs.

For those who have decided on choosing Chapman Law, you wont regret it!


Will you be going to Chapman then?


Yes. I already put down my two seat deposits.

My option was Ohio State at full tuition & COL or Chapman full scholarship and live at home for free. I chose to come out of a rising law school debt free than a highly regarded school with 120k+ in debt. I don't have any aspirations of big law either. I am confident I made the right choice.

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General Tso
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Re: Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

Postby General Tso » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:38 pm

I don't know if it has been mentioned here, but claiming 91% employed at graduation must have given Chapman a huge boost. Overstating its employment by 20% would equal about 1 additional raw score point. Each point is very significant.

Also as others have mentioned, Chapman is very well-funded. It is easy to spend your way into a high "expenditures per student" score.

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Re: Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

Postby Danteshek » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:02 pm

I don't understand how any school has 91 (or even 85 for my school) percent at graduation employment rates. Just sounds outlandish. Nobody has actually passed the bar at graduation. My understanding is that only big firms (and some govt) hire people before they have passed the bar... And schools in this range are not sending many people to those firms... Am I missing something? Is there a critical mass of employers that hire new grads who haven't passed the bar?

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twert
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Re: Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

Postby twert » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:03 am

at chapman they told me a lot of jobs this year were not as lawyers but rather clerks in law firms. they were pretty honest that the bottom half of the class was suffering. employment at graduation is not a very significant number for a school that places most of its students in small firms, but usnews wants a number and chapman gave em a good one i guess.

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drdolittle
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Re: Is it smart to trust Chapman's claim of becoming a tier 2?

Postby drdolittle » Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:59 am

cwkenneth wrote:
drdolittle wrote:
cwkenneth wrote:Haha, no!

I did my undergrad there, have developed professional/academic relationships with faculty and administration from both the business and law school, and am grateful for the opportunities and generous scholarship money the undergrad and law school has provided me.

I suppose everything I write about the school will inevitably be a little bias :). However, if you talk to most Chapman students, an overwhelming majority, even the most apathetic students, will tell you that the school is definitely not contempt with settling for mediocrity and takes noticeably proactive measures to increase its prestige. I think this is a quality that lacks in many academic institutions and is a main contributor to its continued climb in the academic rankings in many of its graduate and undergraduate programs.

For those who have decided on choosing Chapman Law, you wont regret it!


Will you be going to Chapman then?


Yes. I already put down my two seat deposits.

My option was Ohio State at full tuition & COL or Chapman full scholarship and live at home for free. I chose to come out of a rising law school debt free than a highly regarded school with 120k+ in debt. I don't have any aspirations of big law either. I am confident I made the right choice.


Sounds like Chapman's a good fit for you.

For the OC, with a full tuition scholarship, I think it's reasonable, maybe even a great choice for some. I don't know about those employment numbers, most schools probably fudge them one way or another, but the OC has a lot of money and business activity that I imagine gives decent opportunities for Chapman grads.




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