Any 3rd or 4th tier success stories?

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
icydash
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:53 pm

Re: Any 3rd or 4th tier success stories?

Postby icydash » Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:36 pm

My father (a partner at a major NYC firm and director of litigation) went to Albany Law School. My brother (whose starting salary was 175k) works in NYC at a major litigation firm and is also an Albany Law School grad. My uncle (who graduated from St. Johns) practiced for 25 years and is now a judge. None of them did particularly well in law school (maybe top 30% at best?). Another partner at my dads firm went to Hostra, and one of the founding partners at my brothers firm graduated Albany Law School, too.

Lots of T2/T3 grads do well. It's not always the top 5% either. Doing well is all about connections, and how much effort you put in. My father and uncle had no connections but worked their asses off, and obviously my brother had major connections through my father/uncle by the time he graduated from Albany....but he also worked ridiculously hard.

Lola4060
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:00 pm

Re: Any 3rd or 4th tier success stories?

Postby Lola4060 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:08 pm

Its sad that so many people here have been brainwashed in thinking its all about the numbers and this school you go to and that school. But , how about this what God has for you is what God has for you no amount of negativity, or anything else can change that. A school does not make or determine your future God does. So while some of you are on here bashing others and what God has determined for their lives realize that you are slapping God in the face. God has a funny way of doing things and he will bring someone from the bottom/ an underdog to the top without any explanation so that everyone can see he can do all things. While your pointing a finger at everyone look at yourself. That is all!!!!!!

User avatar
Ludo!
Posts: 4764
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:22 pm

Re: Any 3rd or 4th tier success stories?

Postby Ludo! » Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:17 pm

Lola4060 wrote:Its sad that so many people here have been brainwashed in thinking its all about the numbers and this school you go to and that school. But , how about this what God has for you is what God has for you no amount of negativity, or anything else can change that. A school does not make or determine your future God does. So while some of you are on here bashing others and what God has determined for their lives realize that you are slapping God in the face. God has a funny way of doing things and he will bring someone from the bottom/ an underdog to the top without any explanation so that everyone can see he can do all things. While your pointing a finger at everyone look at yourself. That is all!!!!!!


If somebody makes a poor choice to take out significant debt to attend a law school with terrible job prospects, I don't think you should blame God for that. That is slapping God in the face.

User avatar
PutSumGravyOnIt
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: Any 3rd or 4th tier success stories?

Postby PutSumGravyOnIt » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:44 pm

laidoffjournalist wrote:Don't pay to go to a toilet.

This kid hasn't gotten his law degree yet and certainly hasn't worked in the law profession. I love how he's doling this draconian advice like he's an expert.

I would agree a higher ranked school could mean more opportunities to confront Mt. Debt, but I think the people who say "Go top 14 or be a janitor!" are assholes.[/quote]

I've got to agree with you here. Those people are assholes. The stats from non-T30 schools are alarming compared to the T30, but I just don't buy that nobody should go to a non-T14 or whatever (or that you should only go with $0 debt).

There needs to be some moderation and restraint regarding this issue. I've done some research and realize it's really tough to get a job, but I feel like there's a reactionary opinion out there. It's obviously best to go to a better ranked school, but there's way too many people on the boards that think going to a non-T14 is tantamount to suicide. It is up to each person to decide what their costs/risks/benefits are. I'm going to a T100 school for $40,000 (total cost) in an area I'm well connected in, and to me that's acceptable.

Now if someone's taking out $150,000 to go to a TTTT to try for Biglaw, I'm going to think that's crazy--but I may not know her situation. I'd join others in letting her know the low odds that she's facing, but I wouldn't shit on her dreams/make myself feel smart by demeaning her like many do.

User avatar
Ludo!
Posts: 4764
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:22 pm

Re: Any 3rd or 4th tier success stories?

Postby Ludo! » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:56 pm

First, you're responding to a post from two years ago.

Second, you're dumb.

User avatar
PutSumGravyOnIt
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:44 pm

Re: Any 3rd or 4th tier success stories?

Postby PutSumGravyOnIt » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:26 pm

Ludovico Technique wrote:First, you're responding to a post from two years ago.

Second, you're dumb.


Topic/post is still relevant 8)

User avatar
timeandspace11
Posts: 606
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:16 pm

Re: Any 3rd or 4th tier success stories?

Postby timeandspace11 » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:42 pm

Lola4060 wrote:Its sad that so many people here have been brainwashed in thinking its all about the numbers and this school you go to and that school. But , how about this what God has for you is what God has for you no amount of negativity, or anything else can change that. A school does not make or determine your future God does. So while some of you are on here bashing others and what God has determined for their lives realize that you are slapping God in the face. God has a funny way of doing things and he will bring someone from the bottom/ an underdog to the top without any explanation so that everyone can see he can do all things. While your pointing a finger at everyone look at yourself. That is all!!!!!!


Maybe you should save the religious sermons for church.

User avatar
bankruptedcasino
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 5:24 pm

Re: Any 3rd or 4th tier success stories?

Postby bankruptedcasino » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:44 pm

timeandspace11 wrote:
Lola4060 wrote:Its sad that so many people here have been brainwashed in thinking its all about the numbers and this school you go to and that school. But , how about this what God has for you is what God has for you no amount of negativity, or anything else can change that. A school does not make or determine your future God does. So while some of you are on here bashing others and what God has determined for their lives realize that you are slapping God in the face. God has a funny way of doing things and he will bring someone from the bottom/ an underdog to the top without any explanation so that everyone can see he can do all things. While your pointing a finger at everyone look at yourself. That is all!!!!!!


Maybe you should save the religious sermons for church.


hahahaahahahahahahaahaha

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Any 3rd or 4th tier success stories?

Postby Bildungsroman » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:46 pm

Ludovico Technique wrote:First, you're responding to a post from two years ago.

Second, you're dumb.

Third, he sucks at using the quote feature.

firm administrator
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:50 pm

Re: Any 3rd or 4th tier success stories?

Postby firm administrator » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:37 pm

My first post but I do want to be encouraging...
I am going to be secretive about particulars but I have been a firm administrator at 3 law firms over the past 20 years. Background- B.A. Accounting and MBA. Just got into law firm management because it was a job and I really enjoy my position 90% of the time. I am currently at a small law firm (15 attorneys). Largest firm had 100 attorneys in a large city. I moved to my current position because I wanted a smaller town to raise my children.
First of all- if you want, there are associate job openings available all over this country. Smaller towns (less than 50,000) are constantly looking for new associates- and you don't have to be in the top 40% from a T50 school. Currently- we have 15 attorneys. 1 from Stanford, 3 from large T25 state law schools and the remaining are from smaller regional schools( 3rd and 4th tier). Small firms may have lower starting salaries but if you are a hard worker (and I don't mean minimum of 2.500 billable hours) you will make very good money, especially considering the lower cost of living. Our firm's highest paid partner averages about $550,000 compensation annually (made $1,000,000 twice and he is from a 4th tier school). Most are in the $225-$400K area- depending on practice area. Be open to practicing in different areas of practice. You might have to live by the billable hour in transactional area but it will be worth it in the long run. I know small town living is not for everyone but there are a lot of good opportunities out there. Another word of advice, social skills are extremely important in smaller town law practice. Practice them everyday while you are in law school.

User avatar
boredatwork
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:26 pm

Re: Any 3rd or 4th tier success stories?

Postby boredatwork » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:23 am

My dad graduated from USF and is now a partner at a 90 lawyer firm, I don't know what it was ranked back when he graduated but it just fell out of the second tier this year. IMHO (now I am still a 0L but I have more experience working in law firms than 90 percent of this board) being a "third tier success story" is possible for a few reasons:
1. just because you are good at legal academia doesn't mean you will make a good lawyer which also makes the opposite true.
2. Knowing the law is only one part of the legal profession you also have to have:
- good management skills, seriously, being able to manage a big case and all the people who work on it is just as important to your future as a lawyer as any amount of legal acumen. Don't believe me? find me a partner anywhere that can't manage people.
- work ethic, my father says if you put in 3500 hours your first couple of years your peer group will never be able to catch up to you.
- social skills, if you are creepy and you smell bad you will be a contract lawyer for eternity.
- networking skills see above and add using your free time to make as many connections in your community as humanly possible.
- business production, if you are always waiting for the senior partners to fill your plate you will not ever be successful.
- The ability to understand the black letter of the law and then manipulate it.
3. writing is important too and most young lawyers I have contact with are very bad at it.

If you can do these things there will always be a place in a firm for you, the firm I work at can not find lawyers who are willing to be producers. business production = firm health.

User avatar
vpintz
Posts: 1408
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:51 am

Re: Any 3rd or 4th tier success stories?

Postby vpintz » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:28 am

Lola4060 wrote:Its sad that so many people here have been brainwashed in thinking its all about the numbers and this school you go to and that school. But , how about this what God has for you is what God has for you no amount of negativity, or anything else can change that. A school does not make or determine your future God does. So while some of you are on here bashing others and what God has determined for their lives realize that you are slapping God in the face. God has a funny way of doing things and he will bring someone from the bottom/ an underdog to the top without any explanation so that everyone can see he can do all things. While your pointing a finger at everyone look at yourself. That is all!!!!!!

And this would be relevant if everybody believed in a god. "God's plan" bs is only relevant if one is religious, and not everybody is. hth. But thanks for the lolz. (also, lolwut @ the bolded)

User avatar
stillwater
Posts: 3811
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:59 pm

Re: Any 3rd or 4th tier success stories?

Postby stillwater » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:12 am

vpintz wrote:
Lola4060 wrote:Its sad that so many people here have been brainwashed in thinking its all about the numbers and this school you go to and that school. But , how about this what God has for you is what God has for you no amount of negativity, or anything else can change that. A school does not make or determine your future God does. So while some of you are on here bashing others and what God has determined for their lives realize that you are slapping God in the face. God has a funny way of doing things and he will bring someone from the bottom/ an underdog to the top without any explanation so that everyone can see he can do all things. While your pointing a finger at everyone look at yourself. That is all!!!!!!

And this would be relevant if everybody believed in a god. "God's plan" bs is only relevant if one is religious, and not everybody is. hth. But thanks for the lolz. (also, lolwut @ the bolded)


Shit, I must have been looking for success in all the wrong places.




Return to “Ask a Law Student / Graduate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: a male human, Frump367, General_Tso, kirkwood, lonola, mrclean17 and 5 guests