Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
freestallion
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby freestallion » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:09 pm

blowhard wrote:
freestallion wrote:Hi everyone! I am considering applying to Michigan, and am very keen on doing public interest afterwards. Is there guaranteed funding for summer PI internships, or not? I am also just wondering what the support and atmosphere is like - is it possible to find a community of like-minded PI folks at Mich? Can you do clinics in your 1L year at all? Also, I am really interested in the South Africa externship and was wondering how easy/difficult it is to get into that/if you've heard it's a good experience?

Sorry for all the questions... thanks in advance!


Summer PI funding is possible 1L summer but not guranteed. It is guranteed second summer (AFAIK).

A large percentage of people at MI want PI or did PI stuff before coming here.

You cannot do clinics 1L year because there is an ABA restriction on the number of credits you can do 1L. You're allowed a single 2 credit elective second semester for fall starters but it's strongly discourgaed. You also cannot be provisionally admitted to the bar until 2L so you wouldn't be very useful. (Most states won't let you until 3L.)


Thank you. Are the clinical opportunities competitive or do people generally get into the clinic(s) they want?
Also, does Michigan have any post-graduate funded fellowships specific to the school? I know other schools have some funded fellowships to work abroad in human rights law, etc..

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Bronte
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby Bronte » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:10 pm

freestallion wrote:Thank you. Are the clinical opportunities competitive or do people generally get into the clinic(s) they want?

Also, does Michigan have any post-graduate funded fellowships specific to the school? I know other schools have some funded fellowships to work abroad in human rights law, etc..


I don't know much about clinics, but they can be hard to get. I think they're somewhat competitive based on writing samples and such. Everyone who does qualifying PI work can apply for a student funded fellowship for 1L summer. About 1/3 of applicants get it. Like blowhard said, second summer all PI is funded.

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agora139
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby agora139 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:36 pm

Bronte wrote:
NZA wrote:I was wondering about 1L summers...I've been doing some searching around, and I've been trying really hard to figure out how people live during their internships.

I mean, financially. For instance, do people just have money randomly that they live off of (like from parents, or something)? Do they apply for grants? I noticed a few people saying that some schools offer a judicial internship course or something, which allows you to take out some loans in order to pay rent, etc.

Anyway, just curious to know how exactly people are able to afford to live for three months working for free. :) I'm kind of nervous about it.


I hear you. Some people live off saving, some people live off parents, a small percentage get paying jobs (about 15% at Michigan, although many of these are secured through familial connections), some people get grants through their school (at Michigan it's called Student Funded Fellowship, it's usually about $3000, and about a third of people that apply get it), some people apply for outside grants, some people get private loans probably or supplement with credit cards.

You can also save your loan money during the year. If you have a tuition scholarship, you can ask for more loan money than you otherwise would and save that money. Even if you don't, you can be frugal. I definitely could have saved $2000 during the year if I'd been more frugal. Also, at Michigan you can elect to have your Grad Plus loans split something like 40/40/20 for semester 1/semester 2/summer.


Wait--so if you have a tuition scholarship, you can ask for more loan money? I was under the impression that it counted as a form of 'financial assistance' and therefore it reduced the overall amount of money you could request.

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Bronte
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby Bronte » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:39 pm

agora139 wrote:Wait--so if you have a tuition scholarship, you can ask for more loan money? I was under the impression that it counted as a form of 'financial assistance' and therefore it reduced the overall amount of money you could request.


Maybe so, I might be off on that.

GMVarun
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby GMVarun » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:47 am

freestallion wrote: Are the clinical opportunities competitive or do people generally get into the clinic(s) they want? Also, does Michigan have any post-graduate funded fellowships specific to the school? I know other schools have some funded fellowships to work abroad in human rights law, etc..


Here's a list of the clinics offered, in case you hadn't seen it: http://web.law.umich.edu/_ClassSchedule/CourseList.asp#Clinic. I think each accepts 10-20 people. There are some that are super competitive - such as the criminal appellate clinic - which you have to apply every semester for, and even then, you may not get it. I think if you are flexible as to when you want to take the clinic you should be able to take "a" clinic sometime during your 2L or 3L year, but if you do not apply enough times or are not flexible, I've definitely heard 3Ls who want to take a clinic not getting into one.

While not a clinic in the same sense as those mentioned above (i.e. not for course credit), I worked for the Michigan Unemployment Insurance Project my winter 1L year. It was a 1 day (3-4 hours)/week time commitment on average and I liked it, so I recommend it for those interested in looking to do more practical work earlier on. A lot of people are interested in it though, so you had to be on the first few people to sign up to get it.

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whirledpeas86
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby whirledpeas86 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:42 am

In terms of cable/internet, do most people tend to agree that U-Verse is the best option if it is available in your area? I saw a couple posts ITT about cable/internet providers, but not much info, and I wanted to check-in before I pull the trigger. I'm moving to A2 on Saturday, so I'd like to have stuff in place ASAP for when I arrive. Thanks for any help/suggestions!

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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:46 am

whirledpeas86 wrote:In terms of cable/internet, do most people tend to agree that U-Verse is the best option if it is available in your area? I saw a couple posts ITT about cable/internet providers, but not much info, and I wanted to check-in before I pull the trigger. I'm moving to A2 on Saturday, so I'd like to have stuff in place ASAP for when I arrive. Thanks for any help/suggestions!


Depends I guess. I get 15 Meg down on my Comcast cable modem and seem to always be able to get another promo when one ends.

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whirledpeas86
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby whirledpeas86 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:13 pm

blowhard wrote:
whirledpeas86 wrote:In terms of cable/internet, do most people tend to agree that U-Verse is the best option if it is available in your area? I saw a couple posts ITT about cable/internet providers, but not much info, and I wanted to check-in before I pull the trigger. I'm moving to A2 on Saturday, so I'd like to have stuff in place ASAP for when I arrive. Thanks for any help/suggestions!


Depends I guess. I get 15 Meg down on my Comcast cable modem and seem to always be able to get another promo when one ends.


Hmm, have you had reliable service with Comcast? I've had them before here in DC and they were super unreliable with AWFUL customer service, but perhaps some of that midwestern charm has infiltrated Comcast in Ann Arbor? :wink:

So, are Comcast and U-Verse the 2 major options? Anything else I should check out?

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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:20 pm

whirledpeas86 wrote:
blowhard wrote:
whirledpeas86 wrote:In terms of cable/internet, do most people tend to agree that U-Verse is the best option if it is available in your area? I saw a couple posts ITT about cable/internet providers, but not much info, and I wanted to check-in before I pull the trigger. I'm moving to A2 on Saturday, so I'd like to have stuff in place ASAP for when I arrive. Thanks for any help/suggestions!


Depends I guess. I get 15 Meg down on my Comcast cable modem and seem to always be able to get another promo when one ends.


Hmm, have you had reliable service with Comcast? I've had them before here in DC and they were super unreliable with AWFUL customer service, but perhaps some of that midwestern charm has infiltrated Comcast in Ann Arbor? :wink:

So, are Comcast and U-Verse the 2 major options? Anything else I should check out?


I can't get U-verse...it doesn't service my complex. I could only get DSL which is super slow compared to cable. I've been happy with them, it's gone out once or twice for maintenance for an hour or two but I called and they gave me a credit. My promo ended last week and I called to lower my service and instead they renewed the promo for a year, added the free intenet telephone (triple play instead of double), gave me free HBO/Starz for a year, waived my installation fees, and waived my DVR fees, equipment fees, and installation fees for the year. All without me even asking.

freestallion
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby freestallion » Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:28 pm

GMVarun wrote:
freestallion wrote: Are the clinical opportunities competitive or do people generally get into the clinic(s) they want? Also, does Michigan have any post-graduate funded fellowships specific to the school? I know other schools have some funded fellowships to work abroad in human rights law, etc..


Here's a list of the clinics offered, in case you hadn't seen it: http://web.law.umich.edu/_ClassSchedule/CourseList.asp#Clinic. I think each accepts 10-20 people. There are some that are super competitive - such as the criminal appellate clinic - which you have to apply every semester for, and even then, you may not get it. I think if you are flexible as to when you want to take the clinic you should be able to take "a" clinic sometime during your 2L or 3L year, but if you do not apply enough times or are not flexible, I've definitely heard 3Ls who want to take a clinic not getting into one.

While not a clinic in the same sense as those mentioned above (i.e. not for course credit), I worked for the Michigan Unemployment Insurance Project my winter 1L year. It was a 1 day (3-4 hours)/week time commitment on average and I liked it, so I recommend it for those interested in looking to do more practical work earlier on. A lot of people are interested in it though, so you had to be on the first few people to sign up to get it.


Thanks so much! It is encouraging to see that there are some practical work/pro bono opportunities for 1Ls as well.

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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby 03121202698008 » Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:32 pm

freestallion wrote:
GMVarun wrote:
freestallion wrote: Are the clinical opportunities competitive or do people generally get into the clinic(s) they want? Also, does Michigan have any post-graduate funded fellowships specific to the school? I know other schools have some funded fellowships to work abroad in human rights law, etc..


Here's a list of the clinics offered, in case you hadn't seen it: http://web.law.umich.edu/_ClassSchedule/CourseList.asp#Clinic. I think each accepts 10-20 people. There are some that are super competitive - such as the criminal appellate clinic - which you have to apply every semester for, and even then, you may not get it. I think if you are flexible as to when you want to take the clinic you should be able to take "a" clinic sometime during your 2L or 3L year, but if you do not apply enough times or are not flexible, I've definitely heard 3Ls who want to take a clinic not getting into one.

While not a clinic in the same sense as those mentioned above (i.e. not for course credit), I worked for the Michigan Unemployment Insurance Project my winter 1L year. It was a 1 day (3-4 hours)/week time commitment on average and I liked it, so I recommend it for those interested in looking to do more practical work earlier on. A lot of people are interested in it though, so you had to be on the first few people to sign up to get it.


Thanks so much! It is encouraging to see that there are some practical work/pro bono opportunities for 1Ls as well.


I did the food stamp advocacy project. It was worthwhile. I went through training for the Family Advocacy project but open slots never aligned with my schedule. There are tons of opportunities to get involved.

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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby MissLucky » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:36 pm

nhop wrote:
MissLucky wrote:is there a common kitchen area in the LC - will those living in the LC have access to an oven or stove? also, is there a schedule up or a website that outlines the times the LC cafeteria is open for meals? thanks!

also, can someone direct me to some information on moot court/mock trial - when do interested law students typically start to get involved in that/try out, etc?

thanks a lot!


The LC does not have a common kitchen. Sad, I know. Your best bet I suppose would be to befriend your classmates who are living off campus. Regarding meals, if the schedule is like last year, lunch is from 11:30-1, and dinner is from 5:30-7 Monday through Friday and from 5-6 on Sundays.

Michigan's moot court, the Campbell competition, is not open to 1Ls. That said several student groups send teams to topic-specific moot court competitions elsewhere (environmental law, media law, etc.) and ambitious 1Ls are encouraged to apply. And that would happen I think a month or two in to the fall semester.



Thanks so much! Also, I know we don't find out our class schedule until orientation but generally how many classes did people have a day - and most importantly, what is the earliest a 1L will have class (and the latest as well)?

Thanks!

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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby 03121202698008 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:53 pm

MissLucky wrote:
nhop wrote:
MissLucky wrote:is there a common kitchen area in the LC - will those living in the LC have access to an oven or stove? also, is there a schedule up or a website that outlines the times the LC cafeteria is open for meals? thanks!

also, can someone direct me to some information on moot court/mock trial - when do interested law students typically start to get involved in that/try out, etc?

thanks a lot!


The LC does not have a common kitchen. Sad, I know. Your best bet I suppose would be to befriend your classmates who are living off campus. Regarding meals, if the schedule is like last year, lunch is from 11:30-1, and dinner is from 5:30-7 Monday through Friday and from 5-6 on Sundays.

Michigan's moot court, the Campbell competition, is not open to 1Ls. That said several student groups send teams to topic-specific moot court competitions elsewhere (environmental law, media law, etc.) and ambitious 1Ls are encouraged to apply. And that would happen I think a month or two in to the fall semester.



Thanks so much! Also, I know we don't find out our class schedule until orientation but generally how many classes did people have a day - and most importantly, what is the earliest a 1L will have class (and the latest as well)?

Thanks!


Earliest for me was 8 am (JJ White) and latest ended at like 5 pm or something. I think both semesters I had generally 3 a day with one or two days being much lighter. Some other sections had more in one day but then only had class 4 days a week. You could figure out the different combinations for sections on the schedule...you just won't know what section you're in.

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math101
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby math101 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:54 pm

Here's a link to the fall semester classes: http://web.law.umich.edu/_ClassSchedule/ClassSchedule.asp?term=1860

If you're silly OCD like me, you can figure out what your schedule might look like based on your larger section (EFGH, IJKL, or MNOP), which will give you a ballpark idea. The earliest is an 8am, but that's only for MN (although I would personally like to start that early as I like to get up and going).

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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby starchinkilt » Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:14 pm

If any 3Ls are out there: The EIW packet says we will get out interview schedule on the 17th. Will we find out what firms we got before then or do we find that out the same time we see the schedule. Almost 3 weeks seems like a long time to run a computer program.

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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:26 pm

starchinkilt wrote:If any 3Ls are out there: The EIW packet says we will get out interview schedule on the 17th. Will we find out what firms we got before then or do we find that out the same time we see the schedule. Almost 3 weeks seems like a long time to run a computer program.

Agreed - I also thought it was ridiculous last year, but that's unfortunately how they do it. You'll find out the week before EIW who you're interviewing with and when, all at the same time.

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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby MissLucky » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:09 pm

math101 wrote:Here's a link to the fall semester classes: http://web.law.umich.edu/_ClassSchedule/ClassSchedule.asp?term=1860

If you're silly OCD like me, you can figure out what your schedule might look like based on your larger section (EFGH, IJKL, or MNOP), which will give you a ballpark idea. The earliest is an 8am, but that's only for MN (although I would personally like to start that early as I like to get up and going).



thanks so much for that! What do you mean "that's only for MN" what is MN? and this might be a really dumb question, but what's up with the TWELVE sections listed under Legal Practice I and Legal Practice Skills? I thought there were just 4 sections?

thanks again :)

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Joan Hollaway
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby Joan Hollaway » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:35 pm

MissLucky wrote:
math101 wrote:Here's a link to the fall semester classes: http://web.law.umich.edu/_ClassSchedule/ClassSchedule.asp?term=1860

If you're silly OCD like me, you can figure out what your schedule might look like based on your larger section (EFGH, IJKL, or MNOP), which will give you a ballpark idea. The earliest is an 8am, but that's only for MN (although I would personally like to start that early as I like to get up and going).



thanks so much for that! What do you mean "that's only for MN" what is MN? and this might be a really dumb question, but what's up with the TWELVE sections listed under Legal Practice I and Legal Practice Skills? I thought there were just 4 sections?

thanks again :)


There are 12 small sections (16 if you include the summer starters). Each small section has about 25 students and those are the students who are in your legal practice class. First semester you will have two classes with your section and three others, one with your section and another, and one with just your small section. So you can be in Section M and then be part of MNOP.

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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby MissLucky » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:16 pm

Joan Hollaway wrote:
MissLucky wrote:
math101 wrote:Here's a link to the fall semester classes: http://web.law.umich.edu/_ClassSchedule/ClassSchedule.asp?term=1860

If you're silly OCD like me, you can figure out what your schedule might look like based on your larger section (EFGH, IJKL, or MNOP), which will give you a ballpark idea. The earliest is an 8am, but that's only for MN (although I would personally like to start that early as I like to get up and going).



thanks so much for that! What do you mean "that's only for MN" what is MN? and this might be a really dumb question, but what's up with the TWELVE sections listed under Legal Practice I and Legal Practice Skills? I thought there were just 4 sections?

thanks again :)


There are 12 small sections (16 if you include the summer starters). Each small section has about 25 students and those are the students who are in your legal practice class. First semester you will have two classes with your section and three others, one with your section and another, and one with just your small section. So you can be in Section M and then be part of MNOP.



Ah, I see. Thanks so much for the clarification. Also, how do grades come out - are they public/will people know where people stand in the class?/how and when do you know what the curve is for a particular class (or is the curve the same for all 1L classes and profs?) and do you just base your class rank off of the curve?

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Bronte
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby Bronte » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:24 pm

MissLucky wrote:Ah, I see. Thanks so much for the clarification. Also, how do grades come out - are they public/will people know where people stand in the class?/how and when do you know what the curve is for a particular class (or is the curve the same for all 1L classes and profs?) and do you just base your class rank off of the curve?


As is the case at most top schools, grades are shrouded in secrecy. They publish the curves for the individual classes, but they don't rank students until graduation. You just get your grades online about a month after finals.

People will start to know who some of the top performers are because they get book awards for being first in a particular class, which are published. And then there's Law Review. Of course, people also talk, and word gets around.

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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby logan » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:27 pm

MissLucky wrote:
Joan Hollaway wrote:
MissLucky wrote:
math101 wrote:Here's a link to the fall semester classes: http://web.law.umich.edu/_ClassSchedule/ClassSchedule.asp?term=1860

If you're silly OCD like me, you can figure out what your schedule might look like based on your larger section (EFGH, IJKL, or MNOP), which will give you a ballpark idea. The earliest is an 8am, but that's only for MN (although I would personally like to start that early as I like to get up and going).



thanks so much for that! What do you mean "that's only for MN" what is MN? and this might be a really dumb question, but what's up with the TWELVE sections listed under Legal Practice I and Legal Practice Skills? I thought there were just 4 sections?

thanks again :)


There are 12 small sections (16 if you include the summer starters). Each small section has about 25 students and those are the students who are in your legal practice class. First semester you will have two classes with your section and three others, one with your section and another, and one with just your small section. So you can be in Section M and then be part of MNOP.



Ah, I see. Thanks so much for the clarification. Also, how do grades come out - are they public/will people know where people stand in the class?/how and when do you know what the curve is for a particular class (or is the curve the same for all 1L classes and profs?) and do you just base your class rank off of the curve?


Grades are released online several weeks after finals. They aren't public and the only way anyone knows where you stand is if you tell them. At the end of the semester, the school newspaper publishes a list of curves for all courses in the law school, so you can get an idea of where you stood in each class relative to your peers. However, there's no official class rank until graduation, although you can get a rough idea by looking at the historical class ranks at graduation and deflating them a bit. (link is here: --LinkRemoved--)

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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby keg411 » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:30 pm

Bronte wrote:
MissLucky wrote:Ah, I see. Thanks so much for the clarification. Also, how do grades come out - are they public/will people know where people stand in the class?/how and when do you know what the curve is for a particular class (or is the curve the same for all 1L classes and profs?) and do you just base your class rank off of the curve?


As is the case at most top schools, grades are shrouded in secrecy. They publish the curves for the individual classes, but they don't rank students until graduation. You just get your grades online about a month after finals.


By the curves, do you mean that they give out full distributions for each class (i.e. the number of A's, A-'s, etc.) or just the means?

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Bronte
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby Bronte » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:33 pm

keg411 wrote:
Bronte wrote:
MissLucky wrote:Ah, I see. Thanks so much for the clarification. Also, how do grades come out - are they public/will people know where people stand in the class?/how and when do you know what the curve is for a particular class (or is the curve the same for all 1L classes and profs?) and do you just base your class rank off of the curve?


As is the case at most top schools, grades are shrouded in secrecy. They publish the curves for the individual classes, but they don't rank students until graduation. You just get your grades online about a month after finals.


By the curves, do you mean that they give out full distributions for each class (i.e. the number of A's, A-'s, etc.) or just the means?


Full distributions.

logan
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby logan » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:37 pm

keg411 wrote:
Bronte wrote:
MissLucky wrote:Ah, I see. Thanks so much for the clarification. Also, how do grades come out - are they public/will people know where people stand in the class?/how and when do you know what the curve is for a particular class (or is the curve the same for all 1L classes and profs?) and do you just base your class rank off of the curve?


As is the case at most top schools, grades are shrouded in secrecy. They publish the curves for the individual classes, but they don't rank students until graduation. You just get your grades online about a month after finals.


By the curves, do you mean that they give out full distributions for each class (i.e. the number of A's, A-'s, etc.) or just the means?


For example: --LinkRemoved--

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NZA
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby NZA » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:53 pm

logan wrote:
keg411 wrote:
Bronte wrote:
MissLucky wrote:Ah, I see. Thanks so much for the clarification. Also, how do grades come out - are they public/will people know where people stand in the class?/how and when do you know what the curve is for a particular class (or is the curve the same for all 1L classes and profs?) and do you just base your class rank off of the curve?


As is the case at most top schools, grades are shrouded in secrecy. They publish the curves for the individual classes, but they don't rank students until graduation. You just get your grades online about a month after finals.


By the curves, do you mean that they give out full distributions for each class (i.e. the number of A's, A-'s, etc.) or just the means?


For example: --LinkRemoved--

Thanks for this. Is it safe to assume that some professors are therefore harder graders than others?

Also, what is with the classes where everyone got an A or an A-? Are they just like puff classes or something? I mean, "Tax of Cross Border Fin Trans" frankly does not sound easy. :P

Though actually, it looks like 1L courses are all graded on a similar curve...




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