Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
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BuckinghamB
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby BuckinghamB » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:33 pm

mister logical wrote:which of the journals is the next best after law review?


they're all "not law review" as far as interviewers are concerned. just go with one that you might think will interest you, or will show indications you're interested in a particular practice group (like the PE/venture capital journal for transactional jobs).

scaliaantics
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby scaliaantics » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:49 am

mister logical wrote:which of the journals is the next best after law review?


The one that has the least amount of work.

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AreJay711
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby AreJay711 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:23 am

scaliaantics wrote:
mister logical wrote:which of the journals is the next best after law review?


The one that has the least amount of work.


I'd recommend MJEAL for this. From what I understand, Race requires a lot of extra work beyond cite checking, Law Reform has a crap ton of cites, and International has weird rules not well explained by the Bluebook.

scaliaantics
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby scaliaantics » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:34 am

AreJay711 wrote:
scaliaantics wrote:
mister logical wrote:which of the journals is the next best after law review?


The one that has the least amount of work.


I'd recommend MJEAL for this. From what I understand, Race requires a lot of extra work beyond cite checking, Law Reform has a crap ton of cites, and International has weird rules not well explained by the Bluebook.


From my understanding, race only publishes 4 issues a year. I think MJEAL publishes 6.

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BuckinghamB
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby BuckinghamB » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:49 pm

AreJay711 wrote:
scaliaantics wrote:
mister logical wrote:which of the journals is the next best after law review?


The one that has the least amount of work.


Law Reform has a crap ton of cites


Yeah def stay away from law reform. The cite-checking stuff wasn't fun but whatever, you kind of expect that with any journal. What really made me hate it is the note requirement. Huge time sink (I think the minimum length had to be 25-30 pages or something). Other secondary journals seemed way more chill in this regard

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Aeon
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby Aeon » Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:54 pm

If you care about that sort of thing, MJLR is probably the next-most prestigious after MLR. That said, MJLR is more or less a general law journal, so if your professional interests tend strongly toward one of the subject-specific journals, those might be a better fit.

Unless you're applying for clerkships or academia, future employers will likely not care too much about which journal you have on your resume (or in some cases whether you have one at all).

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Iwanttolawschool
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby Iwanttolawschool » Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:30 pm

If any current or former students have an inside scoop on Friedman (CivPro), Krier (Property), and Herzog (Torts). Id love a PM

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NutellaDipity
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby NutellaDipity » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:03 pm

Iwanttolawschool wrote:If any current or former students have an inside scoop on Friedman (CivPro), Krier (Property), and Herzog (Torts). Id love a PM


same here!

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UnamSanctam
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby UnamSanctam » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:49 pm

Friedman can be entertaining, but I never really liked him from a professorial standpoint. I feel like with him you have to teach yourself the law. Herzog is the best professor in the law school, but that's a polarizing opinion. Law school attracts people that need a right answer, and Don will never give you one. His entire thing is pointng out that there is no right answer. If you tell him there is no right answer you'll get smoked though. Torts with him is alright. His First Amendment class is the best class in the law school. Most people will end up not taking it because their experience in torts will sour them on him. Let me be clear though, Friedman, Krier, and Herzog are an elite lineup.

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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby christobel » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:21 pm

NutellaDipity wrote:
Iwanttolawschool wrote:If any current or former students have an inside scoop on Friedman (CivPro), Krier (Property), and Herzog (Torts). Id love a PM


same here!


Would also love any additional info!

UnamSanctam wrote:Friedman can be entertaining, but I never really liked him from a professorial standpoint. I feel like with him you have to teach yourself the law. Herzog is the best professor in the law school, but that's a polarizing opinion. Law school attracts people that need a right answer, and Don will never give you one. His entire thing is pointng out that there is no right answer. If you tell him there is no right answer you'll get smoked though. Torts with him is alright. His First Amendment class is the best class in the law school. Most people will end up not taking it because their experience in torts will sour them on him. Let me be clear though, Friedman, Krier, and Herzog are an elite lineup.


Thanks for the insight, happy to hear that this is an elite lineup.

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Iwanttolawschool
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby Iwanttolawschool » Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:54 pm

UnamSanctam wrote:Friedman can be entertaining, but I never really liked him from a professorial standpoint. I feel like with him you have to teach yourself the law. Herzog is the best professor in the law school, but that's a polarizing opinion. Law school attracts people that need a right answer, and Don will never give you one. His entire thing is pointng out that there is no right answer. If you tell him there is no right answer you'll get smoked though. Torts with him is alright. His First Amendment class is the best class in the law school. Most people will end up not taking it because their experience in torts will sour them on him. Let me be clear though, Friedman, Krier, and Herzog are an elite lineup.


Thank you for your response! I actually like the there's "no right answer, but don't say that!" issue. I enjoyed similar chaos in philosophy.

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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby aladdinismyprince » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:17 pm

NutellaDipity wrote:
Iwanttolawschool wrote:If any current or former students have an inside scoop on Friedman (CivPro), Krier (Property), and Herzog (Torts). Id love a PM


same here!


I hear only terrible things about Krier and Friedman as teachers. They may be intelligent and nice people, but they are apparently bad at teaching (and thus bad choices for 1Ls). I have personal experience with Herzog. I agree that Herzog is polarizing. At lot of my friends love him with an undying passion, but several of my friends dislike him. At the time I had him for torts, I didn't like him. He does not teach torts at all during his class, but then his exam is entirely black letter law. I had to teach myself torts from scratch, and I resented Herzog for that. However, by the time I was a 3L, I appreciated how amazingly brilliant Herzog was and how he was good at teaching students how to think like lawyers, even if he didn't teach torts per se. So, I started to appreciate him more.

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NutellaDipity
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby NutellaDipity » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:15 am

Thanks UnamSanctam and aladdinismyprinc!

Shyguy4
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby Shyguy4 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:46 am

Can anyone tell me about Mendelson, Mendlow, Uhlmann, or Falon?

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usernotfound
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby usernotfound » Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:21 pm

Yes.
Last edited by usernotfound on Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby OfThriceandTen » Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:26 am

usernotfound wrote:Kind of off-topic from the current conversation, but what's the situation with the business school gym? I was told it was probably the best option for law students, but how exactly does one go about signing up and is there any information about cost or when it opens? Thanks.


The B-school gym is alright. It's small, though, and a bit crowded. However, if you're at all used to any of the comforts of a somewhat modern gym (nice locker rooms, machines with tech, etc.), it's probably a better bet than relying on the CCRB or the IM. If you do any lifting though, be sure to check out the setup first. Price is $480 for the year (August 1st, 2015 to July 31st, 2016) and $200 per semester. A couple of law school profs use it, so that's never not awkward -- seeing your prof sweating it out on the machine next to you. But it's fine. If the only way you think you'll get to the gym is if it's a 3-minute walk from the library, it's definitely worth it.

Shyguy4
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby Shyguy4 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:16 pm

Can anyone tell me the University policy on mopeds? At my undergrad we could park them pretty much wherever (bike racks, sidewalks, wherever) I wanna bring my moped with me but don't want to have to worry about parking it at specific spots/not being able to park it near the lawyers club.

scaliaantics
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby scaliaantics » Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:40 pm

aladdinismyprince wrote:
NutellaDipity wrote:
Iwanttolawschool wrote:If any current or former students have an inside scoop on Friedman (CivPro), Krier (Property), and Herzog (Torts). Id love a PM


same here!


I hear only terrible things about Krier and Friedman as teachers. They may be intelligent and nice people, but they are apparently bad at teaching (and thus bad choices for 1Ls). I have personal experience with Herzog. I agree that Herzog is polarizing. At lot of my friends love him with an undying passion, but several of my friends dislike him. At the time I had him for torts, I didn't like him. He does not teach torts at all during his class, but then his exam is entirely black letter law. I had to teach myself torts from scratch, and I resented Herzog for that. However, by the time I was a 3L, I appreciated how amazingly brilliant Herzog was and how he was good at teaching students how to think like lawyers, even if he didn't teach torts per se. So, I started to appreciate him more.


I had Herzog for torts and actually thought he did a decent job of teaching the black letter stuff. I felt like I didn't need to study at all for that class because, while he didn't focus on the black letter law, through his pushing of issue after issue after issue, you basically knew it all internally. I read an outline once and that was enough to have a solid foundation going into the exam, and I did well.

I also had him for first amendment and I agree with Unam that he's the best professor at the law school teaching the best class in the law school. I think Unam's spot on with his explanation for why Herzog is polarizing - he won't teach you the black letter law in depth. Instead you'll read a case, go over the BLL once, and then the rest of the class is dedicated to talking about how the black letter law actually makes no sense, and the ways you can improve it, and then the consequences of that potential improvement. First Amendment is the only class I've had where every single concept tugs on every other concept in some way or another, modifying, explaining it, expanding it, or contradicting it. Without Herzog, there is just no way I'd have gotten through the class.

The way he teaches you to think is also super helpful for the bar exam as well. Most of torts came naturally to the people I spoke to who had his class, and you actually read 100% of the first amendment cases that the bar uses, so you're guaranteed a 90-100% on those.

He's also super awkward, doesn't know how to sit on a desk, and a crazy liberal. Be prepared for those things.

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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby scaliaantics » Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:42 pm

OfThriceandTen wrote:
usernotfound wrote:Kind of off-topic from the current conversation, but what's the situation with the business school gym? I was told it was probably the best option for law students, but how exactly does one go about signing up and is there any information about cost or when it opens? Thanks.


The B-school gym is alright. It's small, though, and a bit crowded. However, if you're at all used to any of the comforts of a somewhat modern gym (nice locker rooms, machines with tech, etc.), it's probably a better bet than relying on the CCRB or the IM. If you do any lifting though, be sure to check out the setup first. Price is $480 for the year (August 1st, 2015 to July 31st, 2016) and $200 per semester. A couple of law school profs use it, so that's never not awkward -- seeing your prof sweating it out on the machine next to you. But it's fine. If the only way you think you'll get to the gym is if it's a 3-minute walk from the library, it's definitely worth it.


Its also the only school gym with air conditioning.

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usernotfound
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby usernotfound » Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:35 am

OfThriceandTen wrote:
usernotfound wrote:Kind of off-topic from the current conversation, but what's the situation with the business school gym? I was told it was probably the best option for law students, but how exactly does one go about signing up and is there any information about cost or when it opens? Thanks.


The B-school gym is alright. It's small, though, and a bit crowded. However, if you're at all used to any of the comforts of a somewhat modern gym (nice locker rooms, machines with tech, etc.), it's probably a better bet than relying on the CCRB or the IM. If you do any lifting though, be sure to check out the setup first. Price is $480 for the year (August 1st, 2015 to July 31st, 2016) and $200 per semester. A couple of law school profs use it, so that's never not awkward -- seeing your prof sweating it out on the machine next to you. But it's fine. If the only way you think you'll get to the gym is if it's a 3-minute walk from the library, it's definitely worth it.


Appreciate the info. $880 for about 8 months? Damn, that's pretty expensive. $110 a month seems pretty damn expensive when around here there are tons of gyms fighting for members at $10-15 a month.

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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby Vexed » Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:06 am

usernotfound wrote:
OfThriceandTen wrote:
usernotfound wrote:Kind of off-topic from the current conversation, but what's the situation with the business school gym? I was told it was probably the best option for law students, but how exactly does one go about signing up and is there any information about cost or when it opens? Thanks.


The B-school gym is alright. It's small, though, and a bit crowded. However, if you're at all used to any of the comforts of a somewhat modern gym (nice locker rooms, machines with tech, etc.), it's probably a better bet than relying on the CCRB or the IM. If you do any lifting though, be sure to check out the setup first. Price is $480 for the year (August 1st, 2015 to July 31st, 2016) and $200 per semester. A couple of law school profs use it, so that's never not awkward -- seeing your prof sweating it out on the machine next to you. But it's fine. If the only way you think you'll get to the gym is if it's a 3-minute walk from the library, it's definitely worth it.


Appreciate the info. $880 for about 8 months? Damn, that's pretty expensive. $110 a month seems pretty damn expensive when around here there are tons of gyms fighting for members at $10-15 a month.


Those aren't stacked - it's either $480 for the whole year, or $200 per semester. Not both.

It's also worth noting that the closest free option, the IM building, is closed this entire year for renovations, so the b-school gym might be a bit more appealing.

Shyguy4 wrote:Can anyone tell me about Mendelson, Mendlow, Uhlmann, or Falon?


Most people are generally high on Uhlmann. There's not a ton of negatives and he's kind of got a "dad" feel to him as a prof, so his cold calls don't end up too bad. He's obviously got a pretty prestigious prosecutorial background so that comes up in the class a lot... after a while it gets to be kind of egregious and annoying for my taste, but he has some interesting stories. His takes are obviously all from the prosecutorial side and I know some of his remarks annoyed those that are more public-defender geared.

He's also probably going to start your class with his last closing argument from when he was a prosecutor. It can be kinda awk.

Falon seems to be pretty polarizing - admittedly, I really didn't like him. He's really particular about how he wants you to write (he's almost mathematically formulaic when it comes to both sentence and paragraph structure) and makes you go over a grammar book for a good portion of the class. The general consensus I get is that he tends to produce good legal writers, but that's kind of hard to get a grasp on as a student, I just don't know if that's true or not.

My biggest gripe is that he's a terrible/boring lecturer and is incredibly poor at making class time an effective use of time. There's a lot of lecturing on how to write (he did like a 2-hour joint class where we went slide-by-slide on all of the Bluebook rules, which was just...useless), and the few times he does in-class writing practice he doesn't really manage time well so there's not a lot of feedback from what you're doing. His turnaround on grading makes it difficult to really glean much from an assignment - if you want to actually work through and get good feedback, you've gotta go visit him on your own time before an assignment is due or you're really not going to get a ton out of it. I guess this is kind of a problem with any writing-oriented class, but it still feels like Falon isn't up to par when it comes to actual classes.

He's also just got weird quirks that some find amusing but aren't really relatable to most. It was kind of frustrating to be in the middle of finals and wanting to go study while he makes you sit in class and listen to old jazz music.

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usernotfound
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby usernotfound » Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:07 pm

Vexed wrote:
usernotfound wrote:
OfThriceandTen wrote:
usernotfound wrote:Kind of off-topic from the current conversation, but what's the situation with the business school gym? I was told it was probably the best option for law students, but how exactly does one go about signing up and is there any information about cost or when it opens? Thanks.


The B-school gym is alright. It's small, though, and a bit crowded. However, if you're at all used to any of the comforts of a somewhat modern gym (nice locker rooms, machines with tech, etc.), it's probably a better bet than relying on the CCRB or the IM. If you do any lifting though, be sure to check out the setup first. Price is $480 for the year (August 1st, 2015 to July 31st, 2016) and $200 per semester. A couple of law school profs use it, so that's never not awkward -- seeing your prof sweating it out on the machine next to you. But it's fine. If the only way you think you'll get to the gym is if it's a 3-minute walk from the library, it's definitely worth it.


Appreciate the info. $880 for about 8 months? Damn, that's pretty expensive. $110 a month seems pretty damn expensive when around here there are tons of gyms fighting for members at $10-15 a month.


Those aren't stacked - it's either $480 for the whole year, or $200 per semester. Not both.

It's also worth noting that the closest free option, the IM building, is closed this entire year for renovations, so the b-school gym might be a bit more appealing.


Oh, that makes much more sense, thanks for clarifying.

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usernotfound
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby usernotfound » Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:51 pm

Looking for some advice on textbooks as well. I guess this probably isn't law school specific, but generally what's the best way to go about them, buy new, used, rent, where to buy etc.. Would appreciate any input.

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Vexed
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby Vexed » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:06 pm

usernotfound wrote:Looking for some advice on textbooks as well. I guess this probably isn't law school specific, but generally what's the best way to go about them, buy new, used, rent, where to buy etc.. Would appreciate any input.


Really depends on how you plan on studying. A lot of people like highlighting and have particular ways they like to do it (I never did it in undergrad, ended up highlighting a lot as a 1L) so buying used can be kind of frustrating. Highlighting can be useful for cold-calls and when reviewing for a class, and sorting through someone else's highlighting is really annoying.

It's also worth noting that online sites really aren't good or consistent at flagging a book's condition in regards to highlighting; I bought one that was in "excellent" condition (or whatever the best rating the particular Amazon re-seller was using) that was heavily highlighted in all of the cases we were using, another book I bought used with a "meh" rating had some frayed pages but no highlighting at all.

Urlich's is easily your best bet to buy books on campus, they've got everything broken down by schedule and professor and will price-match Amazon. You've just got to get there early, they sell out really quickly. I attempted to buy my books through them about a week before classes started last fall and they were completely sold out of the books I needed.

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usernotfound
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby usernotfound » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:46 pm

Vexed wrote:
usernotfound wrote:Looking for some advice on textbooks as well. I guess this probably isn't law school specific, but generally what's the best way to go about them, buy new, used, rent, where to buy etc.. Would appreciate any input.


Really depends on how you plan on studying. A lot of people like highlighting and have particular ways they like to do it (I never did it in undergrad, ended up highlighting a lot as a 1L) so buying used can be kind of frustrating. Highlighting can be useful for cold-calls and when reviewing for a class, and sorting through someone else's highlighting is really annoying.

It's also worth noting that online sites really aren't good or consistent at flagging a book's condition in regards to highlighting; I bought one that was in "excellent" condition (or whatever the best rating the particular Amazon re-seller was using) that was heavily highlighted in all of the cases we were using, another book I bought used with a "meh" rating had some frayed pages but no highlighting at all.

Urlich's is easily your best bet to buy books on campus, they've got everything broken down by schedule and professor and will price-match Amazon. You've just got to get there early, they sell out really quickly. I attempted to buy my books through them about a week before classes started last fall and they were completely sold out of the books I needed.


Seems pretty similar to undergraduate. I appreciate the advice and quick response. I guess I'll get what I can new. The extra couple hundred bucks likely seems worth it given the already immense cost of law school. I just hate the "edition" system publishers use to keep costs high. Ugh.




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