Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions Forum

[FloridaCoastalorbust]

Do any students know any others who have a S/O living in Chicago while attending law school?

[BuckinghamB]

Do any students know any others who have a S/O living in Chicago while attending law school?

I did this. Happy to answer any questions about my experience

[taptaptop]

Anything to say about Edward Cooper and Sherman Clark?

[BuckinghamB]

Anything to say about Edward Cooper and Sherman Clark?

Clark is the shit. I had him for sports law last year and it was by far my favorite class i've taken at the law school - haven't had him for a doctrinal class, but I can't imagine his demeanor is much different. Super chill.

As for Cooper, may god be with you.

Edit: Maybe you've already seen this, but there's more on these two on http://www.lawprofguide.com if you're interested.

[bruinfan10]

Anything to say about Edward Cooper and Sherman Clark?

Cooper puts Michigan Law on the map. He's on a whole different level that's really wasted on 1Ls, but if you're adaptable enough to pick up the Friedenthal hornbook and fill in the basics that he doesn't spend a lot of time spoon feeding you, you'll get an incredible amount out of his class. Also, if his low-talking or teaching style is just an insurmountable problem for you, there are literally transcriptions of his lectures floating around and bulletproof outlines. Clark is fun, nothing particularly outstanding about him--it's hard to screw up a class on the FREs.

[AreJay711]

I think Cooper gets an undeservedly bad rap as a teacher. His class seems all out of order (you start off talking about the jury and preferences and shit), but it makes sense once you take a step back. It helps you get down 12(b)(6) and summary judgement. And the depth we went into some topics is the reason I remember them now. That said, I skipped his class more than any other before 3L. Super helpful over email / office hours.

Clark is a great teacher. Me and him have our issues -- dude accidentally entered my grade as a C when I earned an A- and was always busy when I tried to collect my compensatory beer -- but you'll learn torts.

[sneezus]

hey all-

current 0L here looking at depositing at Michigan in the next few weeks. choosing between several T14s and had been feeling good about Michigan (they were very generous money-wise) until seeing the 2014 employment numbers today. BL/FC numbers are down considerably compared to peer schools.

would anyone currently enrolled care to offer their perspective on this? is it worrisome/do you feel worried about job prospects? what's OCI been like, what about PI hiring?

thanks

[DetroitBL]

Anyone care to share approximate health care costs? I find it incredibly unhelpful that UMich omits this from their COA and fails to provide a ballpark estimate for planning purposes. Haven't been able to find anything here on TLS either.

Thanks in advance.

[magzpie]

hey all-

current 0L here looking at depositing at Michigan in the next few weeks. choosing between several T14s and had been feeling good about Michigan (they were very generous money-wise) until seeing the 2014 employment numbers today. BL/FC numbers are down considerably compared to peer schools.

would anyone currently enrolled care to offer their perspective on this? is it worrisome/do you feel worried about job prospects? what's OCI been like, what about PI hiring?

thanks

Seconding these questions!

[qwertyTLS]

hey all-

current 0L here looking at depositing at Michigan in the next few weeks. choosing between several T14s and had been feeling good about Michigan (they were very generous money-wise) until seeing the 2014 employment numbers today. BL/FC numbers are down considerably compared to peer schools.

would anyone currently enrolled care to offer their perspective on this? is it worrisome/do you feel worried about job prospects? what's OCI been like, what about PI hiring?

thanks

Seconding these questions!

+1

[EEguy5]

hey all-

current 0L here looking at depositing at Michigan in the next few weeks. choosing between several T14s and had been feeling good about Michigan (they were very generous money-wise) until seeing the 2014 employment numbers today. BL/FC numbers are down considerably compared to peer schools.

would anyone currently enrolled care to offer their perspective on this? is it worrisome/do you feel worried about job prospects? what's OCI been like, what about PI hiring?

thanks

Seconding these questions!

+1

Hopefully some older students will chime in, as I'm just a 1L and haven't gone through OCI, but I will offer my experience. For 1L summer jobs it has been incredibly easy. I know several people that got firm jobs or corporate jobs of some kind, others government or public interest jobs, and the rest judicial internships. Everyone I know has a job, and it seems like they are relatively good jobs. Also from what I have heard about OCI it seems like things have been really just getting better and better over the past couple years, since the slow years around 2009 and after, and the people I have talked to have nothing but positive things to say. I have also had a good deal of communication with the clerkship office lately as its something I am considering and it seems like Michigan does really well placing students and judges look very favorably on Michigan students - as much so, if not more so, than peer schools. I'm not sure what the data shows, or why it shows a decline in BL/FC, but I would assume it is completely self selected.

I hope this is helpful. I know it is entirely based on my anecdotal evidence so take it for what its worth. But I do feel pretty confident in saying that if BL/FC is your goal Michigan is a great place to be. Even relatively, I think the reputation of Michigan among firms and judges "out performs" its peer schools. There's also possibly even more of an advantage if less of your classmates are looking for those same types of jobs.

[sneezus]

thanks for your perspective, eeguy. so as a 1L, you're relatively regret-free about choosing Michigan?

hopefully we can get a few more responses here.

[EEguy5]

thanks for your perspective, eeguy. so as a 1L, you're relatively regret-free about choosing Michigan?

hopefully we can get a few more responses here.

Absolutely regret-free. I was down to Michigan and a few others in the T4-14, and it kind of came down to a coin flip of sorts. Couldn't be happier I chose Michigan.

Also, not sure how many responses you'll get right now with exams right around the corner. Speaking of that...

[KingsleyZissou]

Question for a summer starter:

They haven't posted our schedule yet, but last year's summer schedule showed that there were no classes on Friday. Is this generally what happens during the summer? Trying to plan a trip to a wedding, so wondering if I can bank on having that Friday or not.

[jrthor10]

hey all-

current 0L here looking at depositing at Michigan in the next few weeks. choosing between several T14s and had been feeling good about Michigan (they were very generous money-wise) until seeing the 2014 employment numbers today. BL/FC numbers are down considerably compared to peer schools.

would anyone currently enrolled care to offer their perspective on this? is it worrisome/do you feel worried about job prospects? what's OCI been like, what about PI hiring?

thanks

Seconding these questions!

+1

Hopefully some older students will chime in, as I'm just a 1L and haven't gone through OCI, but I will offer my experience. For 1L summer jobs it has been incredibly easy. I know several people that got firm jobs or corporate jobs of some kind, others government or public interest jobs, and the rest judicial internships. Everyone I know has a job, and it seems like they are relatively good jobs. Also from what I have heard about OCI it seems like things have been really just getting better and better over the past couple years, since the slow years around 2009 and after, and the people I have talked to have nothing but positive things to say. I have also had a good deal of communication with the clerkship office lately as its something I am considering and it seems like Michigan does really well placing students and judges look very favorably on Michigan students - as much so, if not more so, than peer schools. I'm not sure what the data shows, or why it shows a decline in BL/FC, but I would assume it is completely self selected.

I hope this is helpful. I know it is entirely based on my anecdotal evidence so take it for what its worth. But I do feel pretty confident in saying that if BL/FC is your goal Michigan is a great place to be. Even relatively, I think the reputation of Michigan among firms and judges "out performs" its peer schools. There's also possibly even more of an advantage if less of your classmates are looking for those same types of jobs.

2L. 80% + of my friends who wanted BigLaw got BigLaw at OCI. 100% of my friends who wanted BigLaw and who are not socially awkward/immature got a job at OCI. Anecdotal evidence suggest the smaller class size is helping. Also Harbaugh.

[aladdinismyprince]

Question for a summer starter:

They haven't posted our schedule yet, but last year's summer schedule showed that there were no classes on Friday. Is this generally what happens during the summer? Trying to plan a trip to a wedding, so wondering if I can bank on having that Friday or not.

They haven't officially posted the summer starter schedule, but you can access it here: http://www.law.umich.edu/currentstudent ... ?term=2040

And yes, it looks like no Friday class.

[arturobelano]

Non-law student, so this may be a little weird - I'm a first-year MS student considering living in Munger, which is I think adjacent to the LC and very similar in concept. Can anyone talk about their LC experience and whether it was worth it? Is the downtown location/relatively top-tier amenities/sense of community worth the extra cost/effectively living in grad dorms?

[vm18]

Question for a summer starter:

They haven't posted our schedule yet, but last year's summer schedule showed that there were no classes on Friday. Is this generally what happens during the summer? Trying to plan a trip to a wedding, so wondering if I can bank on having that Friday or not.

They haven't officially posted the summer starter schedule, but you can access it here: http://www.law.umich.edu/currentstudent ... ?term=2040

And yes, it looks like no Friday class.

Do summer starters just have two exams? Civ Pro and Torts?

[umichman]

Question for a summer starter:

They haven't posted our schedule yet, but last year's summer schedule showed that there were no classes on Friday. Is this generally what happens during the summer? Trying to plan a trip to a wedding, so wondering if I can bank on having that Friday or not.

They haven't officially posted the summer starter schedule, but you can access it here: http://www.law.umich.edu/currentstudent ... ?term=2040

And yes, it looks like no Friday class.

Do summer starters just have two exams? Civ Pro and Torts?

yes

[sneezus]

considering living alone in Ann Arbor. does anyone have an idea how much a studio or 1BR goes for in the area?

[cron1834]

considering living alone in Ann Arbor. does anyone have an idea how much a studio or 1BR goes for in the area?

I have a shitty-but-spacious 1br for $900. YMMV.

[scaliaantics]

Hopefully some older students will chime in, as I'm just a 1L and haven't gone through OCI, but I will offer my experience. For 1L summer jobs it has been incredibly easy. I know several people that got firm jobs or corporate jobs of some kind, others government or public interest jobs, and the rest judicial internships. Everyone I know has a job, and it seems like they are relatively good jobs. Also from what I have heard about OCI it seems like things have been really just getting better and better over the past couple years, since the slow years around 2009 and after, and the people I have talked to have nothing but positive things to say. I have also had a good deal of communication with the clerkship office lately as its something I am considering and it seems like Michigan does really well placing students and judges look very favorably on Michigan students - as much so, if not more so, than peer schools. I'm not sure what the data shows, or why it shows a decline in BL/FC, but I would assume it is completely self selected.

I hope this is helpful. I know it is entirely based on my anecdotal evidence so take it for what its worth. But I do feel pretty confident in saying that if BL/FC is your goal Michigan is a great place to be. Even relatively, I think the reputation of Michigan among firms and judges "out performs" its peer schools. There's also possibly even more of an advantage if less of your classmates are looking for those same types of jobs.

2L. 80% + of my friends who wanted BigLaw got BigLaw at OCI. 100% of my friends who wanted BigLaw and who are not socially awkward/immature got a job at OCI. Anecdotal evidence suggest the smaller class size is helping. Also Harbaugh.

Graduating 3L here. Do not listen to this. This is just wrong. It basically shakes down like this. Big law is a coin flip at median. If you're above median, you're probably fine if you bid New York (and definitely fine if you're in the top third). If you're below median, you're probably screwed. If you're median, its a coin flip. That is not good.

Most people with firm jobs talk about them. Most people that struck out transition into PI pretty quickly and act like they didn't want biglaw. The school does a decent job (surprisingly) at putting people into state court clerkships and convincing them that these things are prestigious and highly valuable. It also does a decent job at funding 3Ls who are jobless for a year. But let me be clear: there are a lot of jobless 3Ls. A lot. I'd say at least 10% of the class, if not more. Couple that with the people taking state clerkships because they've been duped into thinking that they are the answer to everything, and you're looking at close to 17-20% of the class taking jobs that they not only didn't bank on coming into law school, but jobs that many of them would have considered a failure coming in.

Getting a firm job out of Michigan is not easy. Its not impossible. But its not easy. I would be very very very wary of coming here if you have an offer with similar money at UVA or Duke or Penn. And I say this as a graduating 3L who is going to a v10 firm and had 10+ offers. For the people at the bottom of the curve, it is not good. There are way more of them than you think there are and they are struggling. The sunshine pumping by Michigan students is just that. The class of 2014 supposedly had a better OCI than my class did. That's what OCP told people after our OCI was over. The class of 2014's numbers were not good. Maybe 2016 did better than we did. Maybe they didn't. I don't know. Either way, you're looking at a trend that at the best looks like this: Bad Bad Bad Okay Mediocre Okay. Michigan doesn't place better than peer schools at Federal Clerkships. Michigan doesn't place better than peer schools at Big Law. I promise you this is not self selection. Do not let people with anecdotal evidence convince you otherwise.

1L summer jobs are just not the same as 2L oci jobs. Hell they aren't even the same as 2L public interest jobs. The 3L hiring market is not good and coming in as an incoming 1L, you're essentially a coin flip away from a pretty bad place. If you're willing to hedge your career on a coin filp, come to Michigan. But please please do so knowing that there is a really good chance you walk away a loser.

Other Michigan students are laughing at the posts made above starting here: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 5#p8566469

[scaliaantics]

considering living alone in Ann Arbor. does anyone have an idea how much a studio or 1BR goes for in the area?

I have a shitty-but-spacious 1br for $900. YMMV.

I have a shittastic studio and pay 810 but I know others that have moderately tolerable studios and pay like 750.

[UnamSanctam]

I would be very very very wary of coming here if you have an offer with similar money at UVA or Duke or Penn.

Or Cornell or Berkeley or (probably) Northwestern.

[sneezus]

yeah these perspectives give me pause. thanks for sharing them