Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
EEguy5
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby EEguy5 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:50 pm

secadc11 wrote:
Aeon wrote:
secadc11 wrote:I'm visiting Michigan outside of the preview weekends. I will have one late night to go out, eat a good dinner, and then see the bars/social scene of Ann Arbor.

Where would you recommend?


As far as dinner, downtown Ann Arbor has too many restaurants to count. For a unique (though more on the expensive side) dinner experience, the Gandy Dancer, located in the former train station, is neat. If you're into liquor and cigars, La Dolce Vita downtown is great. There is of course Zingerman's as well. Sava's on State Street is good. Amadeus Restaurant (central European fare) is a small but very good place. Ashley's is a wonderful pub with an impressive beer and whiskey selection.

For nightlife, Rick's American Cafe and Necto Nightclub are popular. For more cerebral fare, there's the Blind Pig.


Very helpful! Thank you.


Also as far as nightlife goes it really depends what you are looking for. There are the more undergrad type bars (Ricks mentioned above) that are located in one area east of the law school. Then there are a whole different variety of whiskey bars (Mash - cool little place), wine bars, night clubs (Rush, Live, Habana), etc that are more popular among older students/grad students all located in the downtown area.

Post on here once you're in town if you're interested in hanging out with any current students and you may get some responses depending on when it is (mid- late April there won't be many people out and about).

FloridaCoastalorbust
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:34 am

Do any students know any others who have a S/O living in Chicago while attending law school?

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BuckinghamB
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby BuckinghamB » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:50 am

FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:Do any students know any others who have a S/O living in Chicago while attending law school?


I did this. Happy to answer any questions about my experience

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taptaptop
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby taptaptop » Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:36 am

Anything to say about Edward Cooper and Sherman Clark?

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BuckinghamB
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby BuckinghamB » Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:35 pm

taptaptop wrote:Anything to say about Edward Cooper and Sherman Clark?


Clark is the shit. I had him for sports law last year and it was by far my favorite class i've taken at the law school - haven't had him for a doctrinal class, but I can't imagine his demeanor is much different. Super chill.

As for Cooper, may god be with you.

Edit: Maybe you've already seen this, but there's more on these two on http://www.lawprofguide.com if you're interested.

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bruinfan10
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby bruinfan10 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:50 pm

taptaptop wrote:Anything to say about Edward Cooper and Sherman Clark?

Cooper puts Michigan Law on the map. He's on a whole different level that's really wasted on 1Ls, but if you're adaptable enough to pick up the Friedenthal hornbook and fill in the basics that he doesn't spend a lot of time spoon feeding you, you'll get an incredible amount out of his class. Also, if his low-talking or teaching style is just an insurmountable problem for you, there are literally transcriptions of his lectures floating around and bulletproof outlines. Clark is fun, nothing particularly outstanding about him--it's hard to screw up a class on the FREs.

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AreJay711
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby AreJay711 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:05 pm

I think Cooper gets an undeservedly bad rap as a teacher. His class seems all out of order (you start off talking about the jury and preferences and shit), but it makes sense once you take a step back. It helps you get down 12(b)(6) and summary judgement. And the depth we went into some topics is the reason I remember them now. That said, I skipped his class more than any other before 3L. Super helpful over email / office hours.

Clark is a great teacher. Me and him have our issues -- dude accidentally entered my grade as a C when I earned an A- and was always busy when I tried to collect my compensatory beer -- but you'll learn torts.

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sneezus
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby sneezus » Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:50 pm

hey all-

current 0L here looking at depositing at Michigan in the next few weeks. choosing between several T14s and had been feeling good about Michigan (they were very generous money-wise) until seeing the 2014 employment numbers today. BL/FC numbers are down considerably compared to peer schools.

would anyone currently enrolled care to offer their perspective on this? is it worrisome/do you feel worried about job prospects? what's OCI been like, what about PI hiring?

thanks

DetroitBL
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby DetroitBL » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:51 pm

Anyone care to share approximate health care costs? I find it incredibly unhelpful that UMich omits this from their COA and fails to provide a ballpark estimate for planning purposes. Haven't been able to find anything here on TLS either.

Thanks in advance.

magzpie
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby magzpie » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:28 am

sneezus wrote:hey all-

current 0L here looking at depositing at Michigan in the next few weeks. choosing between several T14s and had been feeling good about Michigan (they were very generous money-wise) until seeing the 2014 employment numbers today. BL/FC numbers are down considerably compared to peer schools.

would anyone currently enrolled care to offer their perspective on this? is it worrisome/do you feel worried about job prospects? what's OCI been like, what about PI hiring?

thanks


Seconding these questions!

qwertyTLS
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby qwertyTLS » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:32 am

magzpie wrote:
sneezus wrote:hey all-

current 0L here looking at depositing at Michigan in the next few weeks. choosing between several T14s and had been feeling good about Michigan (they were very generous money-wise) until seeing the 2014 employment numbers today. BL/FC numbers are down considerably compared to peer schools.

would anyone currently enrolled care to offer their perspective on this? is it worrisome/do you feel worried about job prospects? what's OCI been like, what about PI hiring?

thanks


Seconding these questions!

+1

EEguy5
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby EEguy5 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:27 pm

qwertyTLS wrote:
magzpie wrote:
sneezus wrote:hey all-

current 0L here looking at depositing at Michigan in the next few weeks. choosing between several T14s and had been feeling good about Michigan (they were very generous money-wise) until seeing the 2014 employment numbers today. BL/FC numbers are down considerably compared to peer schools.

would anyone currently enrolled care to offer their perspective on this? is it worrisome/do you feel worried about job prospects? what's OCI been like, what about PI hiring?

thanks


Seconding these questions!

+1


Hopefully some older students will chime in, as I'm just a 1L and haven't gone through OCI, but I will offer my experience. For 1L summer jobs it has been incredibly easy. I know several people that got firm jobs or corporate jobs of some kind, others government or public interest jobs, and the rest judicial internships. Everyone I know has a job, and it seems like they are relatively good jobs. Also from what I have heard about OCI it seems like things have been really just getting better and better over the past couple years, since the slow years around 2009 and after, and the people I have talked to have nothing but positive things to say. I have also had a good deal of communication with the clerkship office lately as its something I am considering and it seems like Michigan does really well placing students and judges look very favorably on Michigan students - as much so, if not more so, than peer schools. I'm not sure what the data shows, or why it shows a decline in BL/FC, but I would assume it is completely self selected.

I hope this is helpful. I know it is entirely based on my anecdotal evidence so take it for what its worth. But I do feel pretty confident in saying that if BL/FC is your goal Michigan is a great place to be. Even relatively, I think the reputation of Michigan among firms and judges "out performs" its peer schools. There's also possibly even more of an advantage if less of your classmates are looking for those same types of jobs.

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sneezus
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby sneezus » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:06 pm

thanks for your perspective, eeguy. so as a 1L, you're relatively regret-free about choosing Michigan?

hopefully we can get a few more responses here.

EEguy5
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby EEguy5 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:41 pm

sneezus wrote:thanks for your perspective, eeguy. so as a 1L, you're relatively regret-free about choosing Michigan?

hopefully we can get a few more responses here.


Absolutely regret-free. I was down to Michigan and a few others in the T4-14, and it kind of came down to a coin flip of sorts. Couldn't be happier I chose Michigan.

Also, not sure how many responses you'll get right now with exams right around the corner. Speaking of that...

KingsleyZissou
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby KingsleyZissou » Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:54 pm

Question for a summer starter:

They haven't posted our schedule yet, but last year's summer schedule showed that there were no classes on Friday. Is this generally what happens during the summer? Trying to plan a trip to a wedding, so wondering if I can bank on having that Friday or not.

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jrthor10
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby jrthor10 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:13 pm

EEguy5 wrote:
qwertyTLS wrote:
magzpie wrote:
sneezus wrote:hey all-

current 0L here looking at depositing at Michigan in the next few weeks. choosing between several T14s and had been feeling good about Michigan (they were very generous money-wise) until seeing the 2014 employment numbers today. BL/FC numbers are down considerably compared to peer schools.

would anyone currently enrolled care to offer their perspective on this? is it worrisome/do you feel worried about job prospects? what's OCI been like, what about PI hiring?

thanks


Seconding these questions!

+1


Hopefully some older students will chime in, as I'm just a 1L and haven't gone through OCI, but I will offer my experience. For 1L summer jobs it has been incredibly easy. I know several people that got firm jobs or corporate jobs of some kind, others government or public interest jobs, and the rest judicial internships. Everyone I know has a job, and it seems like they are relatively good jobs. Also from what I have heard about OCI it seems like things have been really just getting better and better over the past couple years, since the slow years around 2009 and after, and the people I have talked to have nothing but positive things to say. I have also had a good deal of communication with the clerkship office lately as its something I am considering and it seems like Michigan does really well placing students and judges look very favorably on Michigan students - as much so, if not more so, than peer schools. I'm not sure what the data shows, or why it shows a decline in BL/FC, but I would assume it is completely self selected.

I hope this is helpful. I know it is entirely based on my anecdotal evidence so take it for what its worth. But I do feel pretty confident in saying that if BL/FC is your goal Michigan is a great place to be. Even relatively, I think the reputation of Michigan among firms and judges "out performs" its peer schools. There's also possibly even more of an advantage if less of your classmates are looking for those same types of jobs.


2L. 80% + of my friends who wanted BigLaw got BigLaw at OCI. 100% of my friends who wanted BigLaw and who are not socially awkward/immature got a job at OCI. Anecdotal evidence suggest the smaller class size is helping. Also Harbaugh.

aladdinismyprince
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby aladdinismyprince » Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:15 pm

KingsleyZissou wrote:Question for a summer starter:

They haven't posted our schedule yet, but last year's summer schedule showed that there were no classes on Friday. Is this generally what happens during the summer? Trying to plan a trip to a wedding, so wondering if I can bank on having that Friday or not.


They haven't officially posted the summer starter schedule, but you can access it here: http://www.law.umich.edu/currentstudent ... ?term=2040

And yes, it looks like no Friday class.

arturobelano
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby arturobelano » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:11 pm

Non-law student, so this may be a little weird - I'm a first-year MS student considering living in Munger, which is I think adjacent to the LC and very similar in concept. Can anyone talk about their LC experience and whether it was worth it? Is the downtown location/relatively top-tier amenities/sense of community worth the extra cost/effectively living in grad dorms?

vm18
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby vm18 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:46 pm

aladdinismyprince wrote:
KingsleyZissou wrote:Question for a summer starter:

They haven't posted our schedule yet, but last year's summer schedule showed that there were no classes on Friday. Is this generally what happens during the summer? Trying to plan a trip to a wedding, so wondering if I can bank on having that Friday or not.


They haven't officially posted the summer starter schedule, but you can access it here: http://www.law.umich.edu/currentstudent ... ?term=2040

And yes, it looks like no Friday class.


Do summer starters just have two exams? Civ Pro and Torts?

umichman
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby umichman » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:59 pm

vm18 wrote:
aladdinismyprince wrote:
KingsleyZissou wrote:Question for a summer starter:

They haven't posted our schedule yet, but last year's summer schedule showed that there were no classes on Friday. Is this generally what happens during the summer? Trying to plan a trip to a wedding, so wondering if I can bank on having that Friday or not.


They haven't officially posted the summer starter schedule, but you can access it here: http://www.law.umich.edu/currentstudent ... ?term=2040

And yes, it looks like no Friday class.


Do summer starters just have two exams? Civ Pro and Torts?


yes

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sneezus
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby sneezus » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:12 pm

considering living alone in Ann Arbor. does anyone have an idea how much a studio or 1BR goes for in the area?

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cron1834
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby cron1834 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:38 pm

sneezus wrote:considering living alone in Ann Arbor. does anyone have an idea how much a studio or 1BR goes for in the area?

I have a shitty-but-spacious 1br for $900. YMMV.

scaliaantics
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby scaliaantics » Sat May 02, 2015 5:07 pm

jrthor10 wrote:
EEguy5 wrote:
Hopefully some older students will chime in, as I'm just a 1L and haven't gone through OCI, but I will offer my experience. For 1L summer jobs it has been incredibly easy. I know several people that got firm jobs or corporate jobs of some kind, others government or public interest jobs, and the rest judicial internships. Everyone I know has a job, and it seems like they are relatively good jobs. Also from what I have heard about OCI it seems like things have been really just getting better and better over the past couple years, since the slow years around 2009 and after, and the people I have talked to have nothing but positive things to say. I have also had a good deal of communication with the clerkship office lately as its something I am considering and it seems like Michigan does really well placing students and judges look very favorably on Michigan students - as much so, if not more so, than peer schools. I'm not sure what the data shows, or why it shows a decline in BL/FC, but I would assume it is completely self selected.

I hope this is helpful. I know it is entirely based on my anecdotal evidence so take it for what its worth. But I do feel pretty confident in saying that if BL/FC is your goal Michigan is a great place to be. Even relatively, I think the reputation of Michigan among firms and judges "out performs" its peer schools. There's also possibly even more of an advantage if less of your classmates are looking for those same types of jobs.


2L. 80% + of my friends who wanted BigLaw got BigLaw at OCI. 100% of my friends who wanted BigLaw and who are not socially awkward/immature got a job at OCI. Anecdotal evidence suggest the smaller class size is helping. Also Harbaugh.


Graduating 3L here. Do not listen to this. This is just wrong. It basically shakes down like this. Big law is a coin flip at median. If you're above median, you're probably fine if you bid New York (and definitely fine if you're in the top third). If you're below median, you're probably screwed. If you're median, its a coin flip. That is not good.

Most people with firm jobs talk about them. Most people that struck out transition into PI pretty quickly and act like they didn't want biglaw. The school does a decent job (surprisingly) at putting people into state court clerkships and convincing them that these things are prestigious and highly valuable. It also does a decent job at funding 3Ls who are jobless for a year. But let me be clear: there are a lot of jobless 3Ls. A lot. I'd say at least 10% of the class, if not more. Couple that with the people taking state clerkships because they've been duped into thinking that they are the answer to everything, and you're looking at close to 17-20% of the class taking jobs that they not only didn't bank on coming into law school, but jobs that many of them would have considered a failure coming in.

Getting a firm job out of Michigan is not easy. Its not impossible. But its not easy. I would be very very very wary of coming here if you have an offer with similar money at UVA or Duke or Penn. And I say this as a graduating 3L who is going to a v10 firm and had 10+ offers. For the people at the bottom of the curve, it is not good. There are way more of them than you think there are and they are struggling. The sunshine pumping by Michigan students is just that. The class of 2014 supposedly had a better OCI than my class did. That's what OCP told people after our OCI was over. The class of 2014's numbers were not good. Maybe 2016 did better than we did. Maybe they didn't. I don't know. Either way, you're looking at a trend that at the best looks like this: Bad Bad Bad Okay Mediocre Okay. Michigan doesn't place better than peer schools at Federal Clerkships. Michigan doesn't place better than peer schools at Big Law. I promise you this is not self selection. Do not let people with anecdotal evidence convince you otherwise.

1L summer jobs are just not the same as 2L oci jobs. Hell they aren't even the same as 2L public interest jobs. The 3L hiring market is not good and coming in as an incoming 1L, you're essentially a coin flip away from a pretty bad place. If you're willing to hedge your career on a coin filp, come to Michigan. But please please do so knowing that there is a really good chance you walk away a loser.

Other Michigan students are laughing at the posts made above starting here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=247256&start=25#p8566469
Last edited by scaliaantics on Sat May 02, 2015 5:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

scaliaantics
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby scaliaantics » Sat May 02, 2015 5:08 pm

cron1834 wrote:
sneezus wrote:considering living alone in Ann Arbor. does anyone have an idea how much a studio or 1BR goes for in the area?

I have a shitty-but-spacious 1br for $900. YMMV.

I have a shittastic studio and pay 810 but I know others that have moderately tolerable studios and pay like 750.

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UnamSanctam
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby UnamSanctam » Sat May 02, 2015 5:14 pm

scaliaantics wrote:I would be very very very wary of coming here if you have an offer with similar money at UVA or Duke or Penn.


Or Cornell or Berkeley or (probably) Northwestern.




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