Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

A forum for applicants and admitted students to ask law students and graduates about law school and the practice of law.
keg411
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby keg411 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:25 pm

CaptainLeela wrote:Apologies in advanced on a question that isn't going to apply to a lot of people, but I'm wondering if anyone in this thread has experience eating out/grocery shopping in Ann Arbor with significant dietary restrictions? I know AA has a really granola reputation, but I live in a larger midwest city and already have trouble feeding myself :roll:

A big part of the appeal of moving to NYC/Chi/DC is that it's much easier for me to eat in these larger cities, but I am really charmed with UM. Obviously, if I ultimately decide on Mich I will figure it out and it's not THE deciding factor by any means, but certainly has me wondering.

Sorry for the special snowflake derail, and thanks in advance!


It really depends on what your diet restrictions are. I don't think you should have a problem with grocery stores, though, as there are a whole ton of them and they all have very good selections and specialty sections.

cinnamonchurros
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby cinnamonchurros » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:59 pm

keg411 wrote:
CaptainLeela wrote:Apologies in advanced on a question that isn't going to apply to a lot of people, but I'm wondering if anyone in this thread has experience eating out/grocery shopping in Ann Arbor with significant dietary restrictions? I know AA has a really granola reputation, but I live in a larger midwest city and already have trouble feeding myself :roll:

A big part of the appeal of moving to NYC/Chi/DC is that it's much easier for me to eat in these larger cities, but I am really charmed with UM. Obviously, if I ultimately decide on Mich I will figure it out and it's not THE deciding factor by any means, but certainly has me wondering.

Sorry for the special snowflake derail, and thanks in advance!


It really depends on what your diet restrictions are. I don't think you should have a problem with grocery stores, though, as there are a whole ton of them and they all have very good selections and specialty sections.



This. I've lived in Ann Arbor for over 10 years. I was a vegan and gluten-free at one point, and I didn't have that much of a problem. Whole Foods, People's Food Co-Op, and the Farmer's Market are great for people with dietary restrictions.

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Micdiddy
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby Micdiddy » Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:06 am

Hello,

If I attend Michgan I will be bringing my wife with me and I would hate to leave her in a strange city for a summer alone while I go to a big city to work. How easy is it to find summer internships/work in Detroit (or even Ann Arbor itself?).
On the career services website it shows only around 10% stayed in Mich last summer, is this a self-selected group or is work around their competitive/rare?

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whirledpeas86
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby whirledpeas86 » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:20 am

cinnamonchurros wrote:
keg411 wrote:
CaptainLeela wrote:Apologies in advanced on a question that isn't going to apply to a lot of people, but I'm wondering if anyone in this thread has experience eating out/grocery shopping in Ann Arbor with significant dietary restrictions? I know AA has a really granola reputation, but I live in a larger midwest city and already have trouble feeding myself :roll:

A big part of the appeal of moving to NYC/Chi/DC is that it's much easier for me to eat in these larger cities, but I am really charmed with UM. Obviously, if I ultimately decide on Mich I will figure it out and it's not THE deciding factor by any means, but certainly has me wondering.

Sorry for the special snowflake derail, and thanks in advance!


It really depends on what your diet restrictions are. I don't think you should have a problem with grocery stores, though, as there are a whole ton of them and they all have very good selections and specialty sections.



This. I've lived in Ann Arbor for over 10 years. I was a vegan and gluten-free at one point, and I didn't have that much of a problem. Whole Foods, People's Food Co-Op, and the Farmer's Market are great for people with dietary restrictions.


Also a Trader Joe's.

potted plant
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby potted plant » Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:45 pm

Micdiddy wrote:Hello,

If I attend Michgan I will be bringing my wife with me and I would hate to leave her in a strange city for a summer alone while I go to a big city to work. How easy is it to find summer internships/work in Detroit (or even Ann Arbor itself?).
On the career services website it shows only around 10% stayed in Mich last summer, is this a self-selected group or is work around their competitive/rare?


I don't have personal experience applying to internships in Michigan, but most of the people I know aiming for Michigan work seemed to do fine. Michigan is by far the best law school in the state, and Michigan isn't really a destination state for students at other T14 schools so as a Michigan student you're probably going to be at the top of the pile for a lot of places you apply in Ann Arbor or Detroit.

The caveat to that is that you have to be thinking about what you're going to be doing with yourself when you graduate. 1L year you can work wherever you want, but for 2L you should be aiming for a job in the market you plan to get a job, even if you have to leave your wife behind for a few months.

aladdinismyprince
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby aladdinismyprince » Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:50 pm

Micdiddy wrote:Hello,

If I attend Michgan I will be bringing my wife with me and I would hate to leave her in a strange city for a summer alone while I go to a big city to work. How easy is it to find summer internships/work in Detroit (or even Ann Arbor itself?).
On the career services website it shows only around 10% stayed in Mich last summer, is this a self-selected group or is work around their competitive/rare?


I think the 10% number is self-selection. One 2L who bid on Michigan at OCI said that if you bid Michigan, you will get a lot of interviews because MI firms never fill their interview schedule. For my 1L summer, I am working at a firm in Michigan and also had internship offers in Detroit and other parts of Michigan (and in other states). Another choice for summer internships are clinics at the law school- most hire students to work for them over the summer. Also, based on what my friends are doing this summer, judicial internships in Michigan appear fairly easily to obtain.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby Great Satchmo » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:21 am

Summer Starters:

I'm a 3L with a sublet in an all law student house, 10 minute walk to the law school, affordable price. Available May through August. Send a PM if interested!

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AreJay711
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby AreJay711 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:54 pm

aladdinismyprince wrote:
Micdiddy wrote:Hello,

If I attend Michgan I will be bringing my wife with me and I would hate to leave her in a strange city for a summer alone while I go to a big city to work. How easy is it to find summer internships/work in Detroit (or even Ann Arbor itself?).
On the career services website it shows only around 10% stayed in Mich last summer, is this a self-selected group or is work around their competitive/rare?


I think the 10% number is self-selection. One 2L who bid on Michigan at OCI said that if you bid Michigan, you will get a lot of interviews because MI firms never fill their interview schedule. For my 1L summer, I am working at a firm in Michigan and also had internship offers in Detroit and other parts of Michigan (and in other states). Another choice for summer internships are clinics at the law school- most hire students to work for them over the summer. Also, based on what my friends are doing this summer, judicial internships in Michigan appear fairly easily to obtain.


Even 1L jobs in Ann Arbor are pretty easy to find.

04102014
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby 04102014 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:01 pm

Hey everyone,

Summer starter here. This summer I will have Sherman Clark for Torts and Ed Cooper for Civ Pro. Are there any particular supplements I should keep my eye on, or am I better off waiting to see if I have trouble understanding the material? In general I find supplements confusing, since some students swear by them and others say not to bother utilizing them except as a last resort. Any general or Michigan-specific thoughts would be great.

cslouisck
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby cslouisck » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:06 am

Hey Keg, if you're around, I was reading through this thread and saw that you had/have a huge doc on housing in Ann Arbor. If you still have that, it'd be awesome if you'd PM it to me.

And as for a more general question about housing: My fiancee and I are living downtown in a big-ish city right now and while we liked Ann Arbor a whole bunch when we visited, we don't really look forward to giving up the ability to walk to most things. We find manicured lawns and parking lots less comforting than alleys and vagrants.

From reading pretty much the whole "questions" thread, though it seems like we're SOL in Ann Arbor unless we want to pay like $1400/month for a studio or one-bedroom. That sound about right? Is it pretty much suburban-ish complex or bust below that point, or am I just looking at the wrong property management companies?

potted plant
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby potted plant » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:34 pm

ohpobrecito wrote:Hey everyone,

Summer starter here. This summer I will have Sherman Clark for Torts and Ed Cooper for Civ Pro. Are there any particular supplements I should keep my eye on, or am I better off waiting to see if I have trouble understanding the material? In general I find supplements confusing, since some students swear by them and others say not to bother utilizing them except as a last resort. Any general or Michigan-specific thoughts would be great.


Can't speak to Clark's class, but I'm in Civ Pro with Cooper now. A few people have mentioned that they're using supplements, but nobody seems to think any of them are particularly helpful. Cooper is not an easy professor. He knows absolutely everything there is to know about civil procedure, but it's really hard to follow him in class. He gets lost talking about the facts of hypotheticals, he talks quietly, and he rarely calls on people, which might sound nice but it means there's no incentive to be prepared. I'd advise sitting close to the front so you can hear him and talking to him after class or in office hours where he gives much clearer answers. Honestly though, I'm still trying to figure out how to do well in this class.

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AreJay711
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby AreJay711 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:33 pm

ohpobrecito wrote:Hey everyone,

Summer starter here. This summer I will have Sherman Clark for Torts and Ed Cooper for Civ Pro. Are there any particular supplements I should keep my eye on, or am I better off waiting to see if I have trouble understanding the material? In general I find supplements confusing, since some students swear by them and others say not to bother utilizing them except as a last resort. Any general or Michigan-specific thoughts would be great.


I had Cooper and Clark. Get the J. Mohr outline for Cooper when you get to campus -- it is from a dude the booked the class and has everything Cooper says. It is old but still spot on. There is also a hornbook out there by the author of the casebook which I thought was helpful. For both I found the Glannon Guide multiple choice more helpful that E&E's. Torts is simple and Clark is straightforward so you don't need anything more that for his class.

Note: Even though Cooper teaches class in a weird way (though I think the order is one of the strengths of his class) his exam is a standard issue spotter. Both profs have plenty of practice exams.

jackbauer10
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby jackbauer10 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:48 pm

AreJay711 wrote:
ohpobrecito wrote:Hey everyone,

Summer starter here. This summer I will have Sherman Clark for Torts and Ed Cooper for Civ Pro. Are there any particular supplements I should keep my eye on, or am I better off waiting to see if I have trouble understanding the material? In general I find supplements confusing, since some students swear by them and others say not to bother utilizing them except as a last resort. Any general or Michigan-specific thoughts would be great.


I had Cooper and Clark. Get the J. Mohr outline for Cooper when you get to campus -- it is from a dude the booked the class and has everything Cooper says. It is old but still spot on. There is also a hornbook out there by the author of the casebook which I thought was helpful. For both I found the Glannon Guide multiple choice more helpful that E&E's. Torts is simple and Clark is straightforward so you don't need anything more that for his class.

Note: Even though Cooper teaches class in a weird way (though I think the order is one of the strengths of his class) his exam is a standard issue spotter. Both profs have plenty of practice exams.


As a fellow summer starter, THANK YOU for this!!

04102014
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby 04102014 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:43 pm

jackbauer10 wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:
ohpobrecito wrote:Hey everyone,

Summer starter here. This summer I will have Sherman Clark for Torts and Ed Cooper for Civ Pro. Are there any particular supplements I should keep my eye on, or am I better off waiting to see if I have trouble understanding the material? In general I find supplements confusing, since some students swear by them and others say not to bother utilizing them except as a last resort. Any general or Michigan-specific thoughts would be great.


I had Cooper and Clark. Get the J. Mohr outline for Cooper when you get to campus -- it is from a dude the booked the class and has everything Cooper says. It is old but still spot on. There is also a hornbook out there by the author of the casebook which I thought was helpful. For both I found the Glannon Guide multiple choice more helpful that E&E's. Torts is simple and Clark is straightforward so you don't need anything more that for his class.

Note: Even though Cooper teaches class in a weird way (though I think the order is one of the strengths of his class) his exam is a standard issue spotter. Both profs have plenty of practice exams.


As a fellow summer starter, THANK YOU for this!!


Seriously, thank you. But what is this outline?

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AreJay711
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby AreJay711 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:56 pm

ohpobrecito wrote:
jackbauer10 wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:
ohpobrecito wrote:Hey everyone,

Summer starter here. This summer I will have Sherman Clark for Torts and Ed Cooper for Civ Pro. Are there any particular supplements I should keep my eye on, or am I better off waiting to see if I have trouble understanding the material? In general I find supplements confusing, since some students swear by them and others say not to bother utilizing them except as a last resort. Any general or Michigan-specific thoughts would be great.


I had Cooper and Clark. Get the J. Mohr outline for Cooper when you get to campus -- it is from a dude the booked the class and has everything Cooper says. It is old but still spot on. There is also a hornbook out there by the author of the casebook which I thought was helpful. For both I found the Glannon Guide multiple choice more helpful that E&E's. Torts is simple and Clark is straightforward so you don't need anything more that for his class.

Note: Even though Cooper teaches class in a weird way (though I think the order is one of the strengths of his class) his exam is a standard issue spotter. Both profs have plenty of practice exams.


As a fellow summer starter, THANK YOU for this!!


Seriously, thank you. But what is this outline?


Anyone who wants it just pm me. I'll give you a Google doc link. There might be some hot new outline but between this and the Friedenthal hornbook you should have more civ pro than you could ever want. The outline is basically everything Cooper talks about, in the order he discusses it. You'll have FYI leaders who should circulate some outlines too.

Personally, I would never make an outline this long --it is more a compilation of notes than an actual outline -- but it's a helpful study aid.

jackbauer10
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby jackbauer10 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:03 pm

AreJay711 wrote:Anyone who wants it just pm me. I'll give you a Google doc link. There might be some hot new outline but between this and the Friedenthal hornbook you should have more civ pro than you could ever want. The outline is basically everything Cooper talks about, in the order he discusses it. You'll have FYI leaders who should circulate some outlines too.


And I heart Michigan even more than I did before.

imjustjoking22
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby imjustjoking22 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:45 pm

cslouisck wrote:Hey Keg, if you're around, I was reading through this thread and saw that you had/have a huge doc on housing in Ann Arbor. If you still have that, it'd be awesome if you'd PM it to me.

And as for a more general question about housing: My fiancee and I are living downtown in a big-ish city right now and while we liked Ann Arbor a whole bunch when we visited, we don't really look forward to giving up the ability to walk to most things. We find manicured lawns and parking lots less comforting than alleys and vagrants.

From reading pretty much the whole "questions" thread, though it seems like we're SOL in Ann Arbor unless we want to pay like $1400/month for a studio or one-bedroom. That sound about right? Is it pretty much suburban-ish complex or bust below that point, or am I just looking at the wrong property management companies?



This seems like a high estimate to me, unless you're looking for a very nice apartment. A2 is very walkable, and the bus system is also great - they go everywhere and run quite frequently. I would suggest being on a bus line if you're gonna be farther out, or possibly buying a parking spot close to campus and parking there during the week. Feel free to PM me if you have questions about anywhere in particular, I might be able to give you some suggestions (also, I'd check craigslist, etc and not just the management companies).

imjustjoking22
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby imjustjoking22 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:47 pm

cinnamonchurros wrote:
keg411 wrote:
CaptainLeela wrote:Apologies in advanced on a question that isn't going to apply to a lot of people, but I'm wondering if anyone in this thread has experience eating out/grocery shopping in Ann Arbor with significant dietary restrictions? I know AA has a really granola reputation, but I live in a larger midwest city and already have trouble feeding myself :roll:

A big part of the appeal of moving to NYC/Chi/DC is that it's much easier for me to eat in these larger cities, but I am really charmed with UM. Obviously, if I ultimately decide on Mich I will figure it out and it's not THE deciding factor by any means, but certainly has me wondering.

Sorry for the special snowflake derail, and thanks in advance!


It really depends on what your diet restrictions are. I don't think you should have a problem with grocery stores, though, as there are a whole ton of them and they all have very good selections and specialty sections.



This. I've lived in Ann Arbor for over 10 years. I was a vegan and gluten-free at one point, and I didn't have that much of a problem. Whole Foods, People's Food Co-Op, and the Farmer's Market are great for people with dietary restrictions.



Not to mention there are TONS of vegetarian/vegan/gluten free options at restaurants (as well as veg restaurants) in the area. I would say Ann Arbor is easily one of the best places to live if you have dietary concerns (and much cheaper than the big cities!).

imjustjoking22
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby imjustjoking22 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:48 pm

AreJay711 wrote:
ohpobrecito wrote:Hey everyone,

Summer starter here. This summer I will have Sherman Clark for Torts and Ed Cooper for Civ Pro. Are there any particular supplements I should keep my eye on, or am I better off waiting to see if I have trouble understanding the material? In general I find supplements confusing, since some students swear by them and others say not to bother utilizing them except as a last resort. Any general or Michigan-specific thoughts would be great.


I had Cooper and Clark. Get the J. Mohr outline for Cooper when you get to campus -- it is from a dude the booked the class and has everything Cooper says. It is old but still spot on. There is also a hornbook out there by the author of the casebook which I thought was helpful. For both I found the Glannon Guide multiple choice more helpful that E&E's. Torts is simple and Clark is straightforward so you don't need anything more that for his class.

Note: Even though Cooper teaches class in a weird way (though I think the order is one of the strengths of his class) his exam is a standard issue spotter. Both profs have plenty of practice exams.


Clark for torts is super straightforward. I have a two-sided torts "cheat sheet" that was super helpful in his exam, PM me and I'll send it over.

portaprokoss
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby portaprokoss » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:05 pm

Micdiddy wrote:Hello,

If I attend Michgan I will be bringing my wife with me and I would hate to leave her in a strange city for a summer alone while I go to a big city to work. How easy is it to find summer internships/work in Detroit (or even Ann Arbor itself?).
On the career services website it shows only around 10% stayed in Mich last summer, is this a self-selected group or is work around their competitive/rare?


I'm taking my wife (and children) with me to a different city and we're subletting our place here in Ann Arbor. I believe that's what most couples do. That being said, everyone I know who wanted to practice in Michigan found something in Michigan.

portaprokoss
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby portaprokoss » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:33 pm

AreJay711 wrote:Anyone who wants it just pm me. I'll give you a Google doc link. There might be some hot new outline but between this and the Friedenthal hornbook you should have more civ pro than you could ever want. The outline is basically everything Cooper talks about, in the order he discusses it. You'll have FYI leaders who should circulate some outlines too.

Personally, I would never make an outline this long --it is more a compilation of notes than an actual outline -- but it's a helpful study aid.


I got an A in Cooper's and I have a different opinion. I had that "outline," which is really more like a transcription. I found it and the Friedenthal hornbook to be giant wastes of time.

For whatever topic Cooper planned to cover in a week, I would listen to the relevant portions the weekend before using these two audio supplements:

http://www.amazon.com/Sum-Substance-Aud ... 466&sr=1-7

and

http://www.amazon.com/Civil-Procedure-S ... 569&sr=1-8

Hearing someone else explain the black letter law before class helped me get a lot out of Cooper's nebulous lectures. So I took notes from the audio CDs then spent class tweaking those notes, rephrasing things in Cooper's own words. After the first week I didn't touch the casebook, rather I would a bring a commercial brief to class and quickly scan the case while he lectured. Since the CDs are a few years old, this allowed me to account for any recent developments in the law (only two, IIRC). At the end of the week I did the relevant section from the E&E to drill in my understanding and make any adjustment to my outline (I didn't take notes, just put things directly into an outline, making sure to add less than 1/2 page per class).

For any topics Cooper covered with particular depth, I consulted this:

http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Civi ... dure+freer

, which is much better for your purposes than the Friedenthal hornbook.

Halfway through the semester I started turning my notes into flashcards since Cooper's final is closed book, but I think that was unnecessary. Rather, use these commercial flashcards; I wish I had known about these before I made my own:

http://www.amazon.com/Law-Flash-Cards-C ... in+a+flash

At the halfway point I also started working through his practice tests (there are dozens). He'll give you a practice problem 2/3 through the semester and give you feedback on your answer. I think it's important to have done a few questions yourself before taking his practice problem.

Generally, people seem mystified by Cooper's lectures and his final exam. His lectures are very helpful if you go to class well prepared (i.e., supplements) and force yourself to listen. His final exam is a straightforward issue spotter; you don't need to do anything fancy to get an A. His exams have been the same for thirty years and they're all available. You'll be well prepared if you spend your time w/ supplements and practice problems instead or briefing from the casebook, wading through 100+ page outlines, and a hornbook which goes into more depth than any Cooper-student needs.

whitedoor
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby whitedoor » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:21 pm

Summer starter here. Does anyone have the outline AreJay referenced above? It would be awesome to follow along with it and use the other resources mentioned above. Please PM me the link if you have it! Thanks!

imjustjoking22
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby imjustjoking22 » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:33 pm

whitedoor wrote:Summer starter here. Does anyone have the outline AreJay referenced above? It would be awesome to follow along with it and use the other resources mentioned above. Please PM me the link if you have it! Thanks!


You should PM arejay, he should send it to you from there. It'll be a file, not a link.

GMVarun
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby GMVarun » Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:50 pm

I posted this in another thread but in case any summer starters are interested in a cheap sublet that's close to the law school, please pm me!

GMVarun wrote:Are any summer starters still looking for a summer sublet?

My apartment is still available. Here are the details:

Location: University Towers, 536 South Forest (about 5 minutes walking from campus)
Two bedroom apartment, you would have your own bedroom; one shared bath
Availability: I am leaving Ann Arbor May 16, so definitely anytime after that. If you need it earlier, we can work something out. Lease is available until late August (August 25/26).
Rent: 600 OBO. You would pay for only three months and get the other half-month or so for free. The rent includes water, internet, and cable (though since I am taking my tv back, you'll need to have a tv to use it). You share electricity.
Apartment comes with air-conditioning.

Thanks!

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J_stack
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Re: Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions

Postby J_stack » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:17 am

Does anyone know when we have to make a financial commitment to Lawyer's Club? Is there a deposit or something? I'm on waitlists and there's a good chance I'll deposit at Michigan. I already have a spot reserved at the LC, but I'm wondering if there's a way to get out of committing to it in case I get off a waitlist.




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