Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions Forum

[tingles]

what are the prospects of attending Michigan and then working in LA? do a lot of LA firms recruit from Michigan?

Same question, but Boston/New England? I see on the website that not many people end up working there, but is that just factor of where people choose to apply for jobs?

In general, I've heard Boston is a pretty insular market - that you either go to HYSCCN or go to a regional school in the area. I don't know much about the rest of the New England market.

[silly101]

what are the prospects of attending Michigan and then working in LA? do a lot of LA firms recruit from Michigan?

This year the people that wanted to work in LA got a bunch of interviews at OCI compared to people interviewing in other markets. I know of people getting 20+ interviews which is crazy! Just from that alone, my sense is that there's ample opportunity to work in LA coming from Michigan Law.

nice, thanks!
hows Michigan's IP?
Im an engineer and looking into patent law..

oh and how do i go about finding out if LA has a good market for patents?

[awesomepossum]

what are the prospects of attending Michigan and then working in LA? do a lot of LA firms recruit from Michigan?

This year the people that wanted to work in LA got a bunch of interviews at OCI compared to people interviewing in other markets. I know of people getting 20+ interviews which is crazy! Just from that alone, my sense is that there's ample opportunity to work in LA coming from Michigan Law.

nice, thanks!
hows Michigan's IP?
Im an engineer and looking into patent law..

oh and how do i go about finding out if LA has a good market for patents?

Michigan does quite well at getting students into positions at both general practice and boutique firms. We offer patent classes including patent, patent litigation, antitrust and IP, FDA law (with a patent bent) as well as a range of the "soft" IP courses.

[holydonkey]

If anyone has any questions, I'm not sure I'd be the best guy to ask, but would be happy to share anything I've learned/experienced as a 1L the past few months at Michigan.

[Burgstaller04]

If anyone has any questions, I'm not sure I'd be the best guy to ask, but would be happy to share anything I've learned/experienced as a 1L the past few months at Michigan.

how do you feel about shoelace?

[woodson21]

If anyone has any questions, I'm not sure I'd be the best guy to ask, but would be happy to share anything I've learned/experienced as a 1L the past few months at Michigan.

how do you feel about shoelace?

He's as smart as he is fast.

[holydonkey]

If anyone has any questions, I'm not sure I'd be the best guy to ask, but would be happy to share anything I've learned/experienced as a 1L the past few months at Michigan.

how do you feel about shoelace?

state was a disappointment. otherwise, he's been great. we'll see how he does against iowa on saturday.

[03121202698008]

If anyone has any questions, I'm not sure I'd be the best guy to ask, but would be happy to share anything I've learned/experienced as a 1L the past few months at Michigan.

I'll second this though you may want to PM me as I don't login much anymore.

[nphsbuckeye]

How big of a soft is it being a recovering Buckeye? Is it good for an auto-admit; and if so, does it come with a full ride? TIA.

[s0ph1e2007]

How big of a soft is it being a recovering Buckeye? Is it good for an auto-admit; and if so, does it come with a full ride? TIA.

If you were a buckeye and then realized that they were the worst school on the face of the earth and now hate them, that's a decent soft.
If you were a buckeye and now hate them and happen to have the buckeye's playbook/have dirt on Terrel Pryor that would keep him from playing in Nov. then that's a HUGE soft.


--not a Michigan Law Student (yet) lol


QUESTION: Is it true that if you live off campus it is hard to participate socially? I'm taking the next two years off to work before I go to law school and I want to get a dog, but I hear that in Ann Arbor, if you have a dog, you have to live really far away, thus making it difficult to hang out with the other law students... true/false??

[nphsbuckeye]

How big of a soft is it being a recovering Buckeye? Is it good for an auto-admit; and if so, does it come with a full ride? TIA.

If you were a buckeye and then realized that they were the worst school on the face of the earth and now hate them, that's a decent soft.
If you were a buckeye and now hate them and happen to have the buckeye's playbook/have dirt on Terrel Pryor that would keep him from playing in Nov. then that's a HUGE soft.

I'll have Bielema send over the scouting report.

Does that mean I'm in?

[JetstoRJC]

How big of a soft is it being a recovering Buckeye? Is it good for an auto-admit; and if so, does it come with a full ride? TIA.

If you were a buckeye and then realized that they were the worst school on the face of the earth and now hate them, that's a decent soft.
If you were a buckeye and now hate them and happen to have the buckeye's playbook/have dirt on Terrel Pryor that would keep him from playing in Nov. then that's a HUGE soft.


--not a Michigan Law Student (yet) lol


QUESTION: Is it true that if you live off campus it is hard to participate socially? I'm taking the next two years off to work before I go to law school and I want to get a dog, but I hear that in Ann Arbor, if you have a dog, you have to live really far away, thus making it difficult to hang out with the other law students... true/false??

You don't have to live really far away, you just wouldn't be able to live in the Lawyer's Club. I live off campus and don't see an issue hanging out with other law students. The Lawyer's Club is definitely more social, but sometimes that is not necessarily a good thing

[Joan Hollaway]

How big of a soft is it being a recovering Buckeye? Is it good for an auto-admit; and if so, does it come with a full ride? TIA.

If you were a buckeye and then realized that they were the worst school on the face of the earth and now hate them, that's a decent soft.
If you were a buckeye and now hate them and happen to have the buckeye's playbook/have dirt on Terrel Pryor that would keep him from playing in Nov. then that's a HUGE soft.


--not a Michigan Law Student (yet) lol


QUESTION: Is it true that if you live off campus it is hard to participate socially? I'm taking the next two years off to work before I go to law school and I want to get a dog, but I hear that in Ann Arbor, if you have a dog, you have to live really far away, thus making it difficult to hang out with the other law students... true/false??

This really depends on how friendly/social you are. No matter how antisocial you are it will be easy to participate socially if you live in the LC. That being said, I really don't think that if you're a social person and you live off campus you'll have a hard time making friends/hanging out with other 1Ls. I love living in the LC though and would highly recommend it.

[wolverine2014]

How big of a soft is it being a recovering Buckeye? Is it good for an auto-admit; and if so, does it come with a full ride? TIA.

If you were a buckeye and then realized that they were the worst school on the face of the earth and now hate them, that's a decent soft.
If you were a buckeye and now hate them and happen to have the buckeye's playbook/have dirt on Terrel Pryor that would keep him from playing in Nov. then that's a HUGE soft.


--not a Michigan Law Student (yet) lol


QUESTION: Is it true that if you live off campus it is hard to participate socially? I'm taking the next two years off to work before I go to law school and I want to get a dog, but I hear that in Ann Arbor, if you have a dog, you have to live really far away, thus making it difficult to hang out with the other law students... true/false??

This really depends on how friendly/social you are. No matter how antisocial you are it will be easy to participate socially if you live in the LC. That being said, I really don't think that if you're a social person and you live off campus you'll have a hard time making friends/hanging out with other 1Ls. I love living in the LC though and would highly recommend it.

Can you detail some of the pros & cons of the LC?

[s0ph1e2007]

How big of a soft is it being a recovering Buckeye? Is it good for an auto-admit; and if so, does it come with a full ride? TIA.

If you were a buckeye and then realized that they were the worst school on the face of the earth and now hate them, that's a decent soft.
If you were a buckeye and now hate them and happen to have the buckeye's playbook/have dirt on Terrel Pryor that would keep him from playing in Nov. then that's a HUGE soft.


--not a Michigan Law Student (yet) lol


QUESTION: Is it true that if you live off campus it is hard to participate socially? I'm taking the next two years off to work before I go to law school and I want to get a dog, but I hear that in Ann Arbor, if you have a dog, you have to live really far away, thus making it difficult to hang out with the other law students... true/false??

This really depends on how friendly/social you are. No matter how antisocial you are it will be easy to participate socially if you live in the LC. That being said, I really don't think that if you're a social person and you live off campus you'll have a hard time making friends/hanging out with other 1Ls. I love living in the LC though and would highly recommend it.

Thanks, I highly recommend owning a puppy haha

[Joan Hollaway]

Can you detail some of the pros & cons of the LC?

Pros:
9 month lease (no need to worry about subletting in the summer)
2 minute walk to class/the library
Meal Plan (no need to worry about cooking)
You get to meet people outside your section
There is always someone planning something on the weekends
2 minute walk to the business school gym
Rooms and closets tend to be pretty spacious from what I've seen.
Bathrooms are cleaned for you.

Cons:
I feel that the food is bland and repetitive but keep in mind that I'm super picky
Old furniture/Dorm sized bed/icky fluorescent lighting
Sometimes I feel like I can't escape law school because I'm on campus 90% of the time. I imagine this will get stressful as finals approach.
Hard to be discreet when you're living with so many people. Then again, this is law school and stuff usually gets out regardless so this is probably not unique to living in the dorms.
Shared bathrooms and no kitchen.

Feel free to P.M. me about any of these and I can also send you some pictures of my room if you'd like. This goes for any 0Ls.
Good luck with your admissions cycle and I would really recommend visiting Ann Arbor. Preview weekend really helped me make the right choice and I'm so glad to be here.

[thalassocrat]

Can you detail some of the pros & cons of the LC?

Pros:
9 month lease (no need to worry about subletting in the summer)
2 minute walk to class/the library
Meal Plan (no need to worry about cooking)
You get to meet people outside your section
There is always someone planning something on the weekends
2 minute walk to the business school gym
Rooms and closets tend to be pretty spacious from what I've seen.
Bathrooms are cleaned for you.

Cons:
I feel that the food is bland and repetitive but keep in mind that I'm super picky
Old furniture/Dorm sized bed/icky fluorescent lighting
Sometimes I feel like I can't escape law school because I'm on campus 90% of the time. I imagine this will get stressful as finals approach.
Hard to be discreet when you're living with so many people. Then again, this is law school and stuff usually gets out regardless so this is probably not unique to living in the dorms.
Shared bathrooms and no kitchen.

Feel free to P.M. me about any of these and I can also send you some pictures of my room if you'd like. This goes for any 0Ls.
Good luck with your admissions cycle and I would really recommend visiting Ann Arbor. Preview weekend really helped me make the right choice and I'm so glad to be here.

Also a 1L living in the LC and I just wanted to second all this. I chose to live in the LC for two reasons: I'm not very social normally so it's good for that, and I didn't want to have to find an apartment from SC. So far no regrets; it's pretty much exactly what I expected it to be.

[03121202698008]

I live in Harbor House and it isn't an issue at all. The bus system is really good when you drink though the last bus runs at 10:18. A cab is about $10. The bus thing sucked a little more before class but less of an issue now. (Rarely do I drink enough I can't drive home...or we are done super early..lol)

Hard to be discreet when you're living with so many people. Then again, this is law school and stuff usually gets out regardless so this is probably not unique to living in the dorms.

And what do you need to be discrete about there Joan? We should do lunch or dinner or something one day.

[wolverine2014]

Can you detail some of the pros & cons of the LC?

Pros:
9 month lease (no need to worry about subletting in the summer)
2 minute walk to class/the library
Meal Plan (no need to worry about cooking)
You get to meet people outside your section
There is always someone planning something on the weekends
2 minute walk to the business school gym
Rooms and closets tend to be pretty spacious from what I've seen.
Bathrooms are cleaned for you.

Cons:
I feel that the food is bland and repetitive but keep in mind that I'm super picky
Old furniture/Dorm sized bed/icky fluorescent lighting
Sometimes I feel like I can't escape law school because I'm on campus 90% of the time. I imagine this will get stressful as finals approach.
Hard to be discreet when you're living with so many people. Then again, this is law school and stuff usually gets out regardless so this is probably not unique to living in the dorms.
Shared bathrooms and no kitchen.

Feel free to P.M. me about any of these and I can also send you some pictures of my room if you'd like. This goes for any 0Ls.
Good luck with your admissions cycle and I would really recommend visiting Ann Arbor. Preview weekend really helped me make the right choice and I'm so glad to be here.

Also a 1L living in the LC and I just wanted to second all this. I chose to live in the LC for two reasons: I'm not very social normally so it's good for that, and I didn't want to have to find an apartment from SC. So far no regrets; it's pretty much exactly what I expected it to be.

thanks

[Joan Hollaway]

I live in Harbor House and it isn't an issue at all. The bus system is really good when you drink though the last bus runs at 10:18. A cab is about $10. The bus thing sucked a little more before class but less of an issue now. (Rarely do I drink enough I can't drive home...or we are done super early..lol)

Hard to be discreet when you're living with so many people. Then again, this is law school and stuff usually gets out regardless so this is probably not unique to living in the dorms.

And what do you need to be discrete about there Joan? We should do lunch or dinner or something one day.

sure, if i make it through this weekend alive

[niederbomb]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but has Michigan suffered disproportionately during the recession relative to other T10 law schools? Michigan is not proximate to a large legal market like U of Chicago and NYU are, for example. So how does this affect Michigan grads when things get tight?

[FlightoftheEarls]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but has Michigan suffered disproportionately during the recession relative to other T10 law schools? Michigan is not proximate to a large legal market like U of Chicago and NYU are, for example. So how does this affect Michigan grads when things get tight?

So here's my take on the issue, but I'm going to choose my words carefully because it is a rather delicate issue for all students (not only those without jobs).

Last year
Oh boy, where to begin? Michigan admittedly seems to have underperformed its ranking compared to a couple schools for one very large reason - nobody had any idea how bad the hiring and economy was going to be. From all reports, our OCS (and in their defense, it's hard to say this was their fault when faced with complete uncertainty) strongly encouraged students to underbid. Significantly. And when I say significantly, I mean significantly. This is one of the largest and most frequent complaints I heard from students all last year. As a result, you had a very substantial number of students in the top 10-15%/LR range bidding primarily on firms that would have been more "median-ish" firms under the belief that they had to completely lower their expectations. The trickle down effect that resulted was quite damaging because it displaced the bids/competitiveness of the remainder of the class. As a result of all of this, our class's employment took a larger blow than I think it needed to last year.

In addition, many students were reportedly encouraged to avoid NYC like the plague - the reason being that Michigan, because of the geographic spread of its graduates, had several other venues for people to turn to. Because of these other options, and concerns over the state of NYC due to the financial crisis, far too many people avoided markets that they would have normally bid on. What ended up happening, in hindsight, was that most other markets were incredibly brutal and NYC ended up being one of the better places to bid, relative to Chicago/SF/DC. In fact, Michigan almost put as many people into DC firms (which are notorious for being more selective) as we did in NYC firms, and we placed significantly more into DC firms + DC federal agencies (DOJ, FTC, Treasury Dept, Homeland Security, etc) than we did in NYC. These programs and firms are all typically extraordinarily selective, and Michigan still did relatively quite well in the city. In fact, the number of firm jobs we placed students into in DC exceeded the average annual number of DC firm jobs students received for the classes of 2007-2009 (OCIs in 2005-2007). Although I admit I have a pro-Michigan bias, I really don't think it's too much of a stretch on Michigan's behalf to suggest that our poor placement in NYC (and as a result, in raw statistics) was the result of well-intentioned, but slightly overcautious, bidding advice (both in terms of GPA and city-choice), and certainly not due to any deficiency in employers' perspectives of our students. Unfortunately hindsight is 20/20, and Michigan probably underperformed slightly compared to what it could have.

This Year
Like I said, hindsight helps. While I'm speaking from a relatively limited sample of students compared to the whole class, I am cautiously optimistic as to how this year will turn out. Don't get me wrong, it's not 2006 anymore - there are still a number of students looking for jobs. Yet I have the feeling that C/O 2012 approached OCI with a much better idea of what to expect, on the whole. I was speaking with a friend about this yesterday, and both of us were under the impression that many of the strategic problems that really harmed last year's OCI seemed much less significant this year. While I know those who are still looking for summer plans are naturally going to be more quiet about where they are job-wise, I'm still cautiously optimistic about where members of this year's OCI class will end up, relative to last year. Anecdotally, I've heard of a rather healthy number of people with V10 and DC offers, and I wouldn't be surprised if our placement this year improves substantially. I know this answer is somewhat vague, but as a result of not wanting to ask people their summer plans and not having any official data, it unfortunately will have to remain that way until that a summer list is released.

All of that said, I will close up this post by suggesting that Michigan's arguable "underperformance" last year had little to do with proximity to markets (as evidenced by our DC placement). Instead, I think it had much more to do with what cities people bid on, as well as where along the spectrum of firms people bid. That said, I think those issues have been alleviated significantly. While I don't think any school is really facing 2006 again, I think you have very little to worry about at Michigan as compared to any other T10 school.

[zardoz]

Sorry if this has been asked before, but has Michigan suffered disproportionately during the recession relative to other T10 law schools? Michigan is not proximate to a large legal market like U of Chicago and NYU are, for example. So how does this affect Michigan grads when things get tight?
Sorry if this has been asked before, but has Michigan suffered disproportionately during the recession relative to other T10 law schools? Michigan is not proximate to a large legal market like U of Chicago and NYU are, for example. So how does this affect Michigan grads when things get tight?

Much of what was said in the previous response to this is undoubtedly true, and I have a number of friends who have offers across the country in well-ranked firms. That said, I also have friends who doubt their decision to come to Michigan, because they feel that being in a larger market even at a school ranked lower would have helped them with callbacks and part-time opportunities during the year. There were some firms that opted not to hire from Michigan this year, because the cost of callbacks for students from Michigan is higher than hiring locally (this was especially true of the Bay Area and somewhat also in DC/NYC). I can also say that for 2Ls who currently do not have firm offers for next summer and hope to work for a firm after graduation, career services has been fairly negative about whether they will have that opportunity. A still jobless friend recently told me that career services advice was -- "work hard, get your gpa up, try to land a federal clerkship, and then try to get a firm job after that." Not particularly encouraging.

Another aspect that hasn't been mentioned is that if you are not one of the ones who lands a job out of OCI, your job search will absolutely eat your time throughout fall semester and possibly into spring semester making it that much harder to perform well on your journal (and land an editorial spot), study for class (and improve your gpa), or sleep (and not get sick). Of course, and although it remains largely hidden, there is the toll that being either a have or a have not (in terms of the job market) takes on your friendships with other law students as well as your own self-confidence. I have seen a couple of friends absolutely fall apart this fall. So, I guess it is a mixed bag. The top third of the class is probably still golden as are the law review kids. The middle third really makes it or breaks it largely based on smart bidding and good interview skills. The bottom third is really in more of a have-to-get-lucky situation. (All of this speaking in terms of firms.) The big name government jobs remain incredibly competitive as well. Taking all of this into account, I do believe career services when they say that we will have jobs. These jobs might just not be the job you want or in the location you want.

[dorriedoodle]

What do you think about Summer Start?

[wolverine2014]

For those of you in Ann Arbor already, I was wondering how's the Sprint network up there? I'm thinking of switching carriers and Sprint requires a 2 year contract. Thanks