Michigan 1Ls/2Ls/3Ls taking questions Forum

[logan]

I can say that the majority of the people going to big firms in Michigan are typically in the bottom half of the class, and that a big chunk are generally in the bottom third (probably even bottom quarter). What I can't tell you is how many people in the bottom half (or even the top half) wanted to go to a big firm in Michigan and got shut out. Being from Michigan will help a lot - you will likely be in really good shape.

I would prefer it if someone who's went through OCI would be willing to answer this, but anyone's input would be appreciated. If someone's goal was to work at a larger firm in Michigan, how difficult would this be from U of M? Obviously it would be much easier than pretty much anywhere else, but do you have an idea of where you would need to be in the class? I've lived in Michigan my whole life and don't really have any desire to leave, so its really the only thing I'm interested in. When I talked to the admissions people they acted as if it would be possible to land a $100k job in Michigan even from the bottom of the class, but given that they are administrators I'm having a hard time believing them. I'm trying to gauge what the worst case scenario would be at U of M if I wanted to stay in the state. I would appreciate any input, thanks.

I'm not sure where you got this info. If you look at the GPA profiles for the various Michigan firms that do OCI, you'll see that most have much higher GPA's than you implied. I don't want to give the exact numbers, but it's certainly not below median. In addition, these numbers reflect the past 10 years or so. I would imagine in recent years, firms are being even more selective.

[cornellbeez]

I can say that the majority of the people going to big firms in Michigan are typically in the bottom half of the class, and that a big chunk are generally in the bottom third (probably even bottom quarter). What I can't tell you is how many people in the bottom half (or even the top half) wanted to go to a big firm in Michigan and got shut out. Being from Michigan will help a lot - you will likely be in really good shape.

I would prefer it if someone who's went through OCI would be willing to answer this, but anyone's input would be appreciated. If someone's goal was to work at a larger firm in Michigan, how difficult would this be from U of M? Obviously it would be much easier than pretty much anywhere else, but do you have an idea of where you would need to be in the class? I've lived in Michigan my whole life and don't really have any desire to leave, so its really the only thing I'm interested in. When I talked to the admissions people they acted as if it would be possible to land a $100k job in Michigan even from the bottom of the class, but given that they are administrators I'm having a hard time believing them. I'm trying to gauge what the worst case scenario would be at U of M if I wanted to stay in the state. I would appreciate any input, thanks.

I'm not sure where you got this info. If you look at the GPA profiles for the various Michigan firms that do OCI, you'll see that most have much higher GPA's than you implied. I don't want to give the exact numbers, but it's certainly not below median. In addition, these numbers reflect the past 10 years or so. I would imagine in recent years, firms are being even more selective.

Correct. It's because Michigan is a small market. Historically, it's been easier getting biglaw in most primary markets. That said, going to U of Michigan probably gives you the best shot outside of HYS for landing a firm job in Michigan.

[buckilaw]

How much more difficult would it be to land a job through OCI in Chicago compared to NYC? Assuming the applicant has no ties to either city.

I know the prevailing wisdom is that NYC is easier because there are more jobs and NY firms care much less about ties. I'm curious if Michigan's proximity to Chicago makes getting Chicago with no ties easier than it would be from UVA or Penn without ties.

[lawlcat4179]

Well, I'm back with more neurotic questions about UMich. I just contacted the firm I want to work at upon graduation and they said that they won't consider you unless you have a minimum 3.0 GPA. What kind of a class rank would that roughly approximate to? I know UMich doesn't rank, but I would imagine it would be somewhere around bottom third? As far as I knew, Michigan's median was around a 3.2 correct? I would also assume that while this is the minimum that they would consider, in order to have a realistic shot you would need considerably higher? If someone could help steer me on the right track it would be greatly appreciated. I'm thinking I'm gonna attend Michigan but the thought of potentially being a bum collecting popcans due to soul crushing debt is a bit disconcerting.

[cornellbeez]

How much more difficult would it be to land a job through OCI in Chicago compared to NYC? Assuming the applicant has no ties to either city.

I know the prevailing wisdom is that NYC is easier because there are more jobs and NY firms care much less about ties. I'm curious if Michigan's proximity to Chicago makes getting Chicago with no ties easier than it would be from UVA or Penn without ties.

Well, I think it's easier getting Chicago biglaw out of Michigan than UVA or Penn because more Chicago firms participate in Michigan's OCI. (And in my experience, many biglaw firms are not willing to conduct interviews outside of OCI, with the rare exception of conducting interviews for unique candidates with military experience/IP/top 10% grades.)

That said, outside of New York and DC, markets are concerned about ties. Having no legitimate ties might be somewhat problematic for Chicago. I do, however, know people who didn't really have ties (never spent much time there) to Chicago but landed Chicago biglaw simply because their S/Os were from there. (And an argument can be made that good grades trump ties regardless of the primary market...)

Chicago is going to be tougher to get than New York from any of these schools simply because there are so few SA positions available. But the difference in terms of recruiting among Mich, UVA, and Penn is not attributed to proximity -- not sure how studying at Michigan will give you ties to Chicago -- but because more Chicago firms participate in Michigan's OCI than the other schools' OCIs, and, on a related note, because firms have developed a "relationship" with Michigan. I read an article somewhere that one highly ranked firm only recruited at YHS, Chicago, Michigan, and Northwestern last year.

[cornellbeez]

Well, I'm back with more neurotic questions about UMich. I just contacted the firm I want to work at upon graduation and they said that they won't consider you unless you have a minimum 3.0 GPA. What kind of a class rank would that roughly approximate to? I know UMich doesn't rank, but I would imagine it would be somewhere around bottom third? As far as I knew, Michigan's median was around a 3.2 correct? I would also assume that while this is the minimum that they would consider, in order to have a realistic shot you would need considerably higher? If someone could help steer me on the right track it would be greatly appreciated. I'm thinking I'm gonna attend Michigan but the thought of potentially being a bum collecting popcans due to soul crushing debt is a bit disconcerting.

Michigan's median 1L year is around a 3.2 (as in the average for 1L classes is a 3.2, not the median of students' cumulative GPAs). The median upon graduation is a 3.3X. It's a bit weird trying to figure out ranking without a class median, without knowing what distribution it is, and without knowing what the SD is, but people guess that a 3.2 is median after 1L year, and a 3.4 is around top 1/3. I personally don't think it's a normal distribution. If I were forced to guess, I'd say that a 3.0 is bottom 15% or lower.

[AreJay711]

Michigan's median 1L year is around a 3.2 (as in the average for 1L classes is a 3.2, not the median of students' cumulative GPAs). The median upon graduation is a 3.3X. It's a bit weird trying to figure out ranking without a class median, without knowing what distribution it is, and without knowing what the SD is, but people guess that a 3.2 is median after 1L year, and a 3.4 is around top 1/3. I personally don't think it's a normal distribution. If I were forced to guess, I'd say that a 3.0 is bottom 15% or lower.

Wow, is is it really that tight?

Edit: Also, as a summer starter, I was thinking about buying some of my supplements and junk before class starts just so I have it before I get there. Does anyone who has taken civil procedure and torts with Ed Cooper or Sherman Clark have any suggestions or general advice? Thanks!

[wolverine2014]

I need to get Renters Insurance for my A2 apt. Any suggestions?

[er doctor]

I need to start looking for a place to live this fall. Any suggestions current Michigan students?

[03121202698008]

I need to start looking for a place to live this fall. Any suggestions current Michigan students?

What are you looking for? Apt downtown? Apt within short bus range that's newer/quieter/nicer?

[math101]

How much awesome are the new buildings and does it look like they will actually be done on schedule?

[03121202698008]

How much awesome are the new buildings and does it look like they will actually be done on schedule?

It looks good. It's ahead of schedule I think. There are classes scheduled in it for Spring '12.

[math101]

How much awesome are the new buildings and does it look like they will actually be done on schedule?

It looks good. It's ahead of schedule I think. There are classes scheduled in it for Spring '12.

Yay, so exciting! I'm glad that it will not be done my first semester though, as I really want to have the Hutchins Hall experience first.

[thalassocrat]

How much awesome are the new buildings and does it look like they will actually be done on schedule?

It looks good. It's ahead of schedule I think. There are classes scheduled in it for Spring '12.

Yay, so exciting! I'm glad that it will not be done my first semester though, as I really want to have the Hutchins Hall experience first.

There will still be some classes in Hutchins, at least for next winter. Not sure about after that.

[er doctor]

I need to start looking for a place to live this fall. Any suggestions current Michigan students?

What are you looking for? Apt downtown? Apt within short bus range that's newer/quieter/nicer?

I would prefer newer/quieter/nicer and would REALLY prefer dog friendly so my puppy can visit. Got anything like that?

[03121202698008]

I need to start looking for a place to live this fall. Any suggestions current Michigan students?

What are you looking for? Apt downtown? Apt within short bus range that's newer/quieter/nicer?

I would prefer newer/quieter/nicer and would REALLY prefer dog friendly so my puppy can visit. Got anything like that?

Yep, where I live...Harbor House. Lake Village next door is also nice. You can ride the bus door-to-door in 20-25 min or drive a mile to the free park and ride (what I do) and be there in <15. The park & ride runs every 9-12 min versus 30 min-1 hr for door-to-door. Lake village can walk to the park & ride bus, especially if you can score a back building near the tennis courts. The bus is free w/ ID.

Others live at Woodbury...from visiting I have mixed feelings but it has the added benefit of a shuttle to/from the law school at certain times.

Edit: And I have a dog as well...

[wolverine2014]

I need to start looking for a place to live this fall. Any suggestions current Michigan students?

What are you looking for? Apt downtown? Apt within short bus range that's newer/quieter/nicer?

I would prefer newer/quieter/nicer and would REALLY prefer dog friendly so my puppy can visit. Got anything like that?

I checked out a bunch of places and just signed a lease at Woodbury. It's a nice complex and very popular with grad students (particularly MBA's and law students). Let me know if you have any questions.

[03121202698008]

I need to start looking for a place to live this fall. Any suggestions current Michigan students?

What are you looking for? Apt downtown? Apt within short bus range that's newer/quieter/nicer?

I would prefer newer/quieter/nicer and would REALLY prefer dog friendly so my puppy can visit. Got anything like that?

I checked out a bunch of places and just signed a lease at Woodbury. It's a nice complex and very popular with grad students (particularly MBA's and law students). Let me know if you have any questions.

To be clear from my earlier post, I'd live at Woodbury. It's just not as quiet...noise between apts and such. I also don't like the share a shower thing if you have a roommate. the 2-bedrooms are a weird 2 half-baths than connect to a joint shower concept. More people walking around at night, etc.

[wolverine2014]

What are you looking for? Apt downtown? Apt within short bus range that's newer/quieter/nicer?[/quote]

I would prefer newer/quieter/nicer and would REALLY prefer dog friendly so my puppy can visit. Got anything like that?[/quote]

I checked out a bunch of places and just signed a lease at Woodbury. It's a nice complex and very popular with grad students (particularly MBA's and law students). Let me know if you have any questions.[/quote]

To be clear from my earlier post, I'd live at Woodbury. It's just not as quiet...noise between apts and such. I also don't like the share a shower thing if you have a roommate. the 2-bedrooms are a weird 2 half-baths than connect to a joint shower concept. More people walking around at night, etc.[/quote]

I leased a 1-bedroom. Hoping the noise issue isn't an issue (fingers crossed).

[Excellence = a Habit]

How much awesome are the new buildings and does it look like they will actually be done on schedule?

It looks good. It's ahead of schedule I think. There are classes scheduled in it for Spring '12.

Yay, so exciting! I'm glad that it will not be done my first semester though, as I really want to have the Hutchins Hall experience first.

I concur! I love the classrooms in Hutchins (at least those I've seen)

[er doctor]

I need to start looking for a place to live this fall. Any suggestions current Michigan students?

What are you looking for? Apt downtown? Apt within short bus range that's newer/quieter/nicer?

I would prefer newer/quieter/nicer and would REALLY prefer dog friendly so my puppy can visit. Got anything like that?

Yep, where I live...Harbor House. Lake Village next door is also nice. You can ride the bus door-to-door in 20-25 min or drive a mile to the free park and ride (what I do) and be there in <15. The park & ride runs every 9-12 min versus 30 min-1 hr for door-to-door. Lake village can walk to the park & ride bus, especially if you can score a back building near the tennis courts. The bus is free w/ ID.

Others live at Woodbury...from visiting I have mixed feelings but it has the added benefit of a shuttle to/from the law school at certain times.

Edit: And I have a dog as well...

I actually saw you say this in an earlier post. My one concern is some online sites (apartmentratings.com etc.) have had complaints about both Harbor House and Lake Village complaining about noise, excessive heating/cooling bills, difficulty parking, bugs, and absent management staff. Have you experienced any of this? (I always take online rants with a grain of salt so it's nice to hear from someone who actually lives there).

Thanks! (Cute dog BTW)

[er doctor]

Oh, and...

[bannanagram]

I need to start looking for a place to live this fall. Any suggestions current Michigan students?

What are you looking for? Apt downtown? Apt within short bus range that's newer/quieter/nicer?

I would prefer newer/quieter/nicer and would REALLY prefer dog friendly so my puppy can visit. Got anything like that?

I checked out a bunch of places and just signed a lease at Woodbury. It's a nice complex and very popular with grad students (particularly MBA's and law students). Let me know if you have any questions.

I live in Woodbury in an upgraded two bedroom. We can hear the woman above us cooing at her baby, the baby screaming, and I know that they speak Spanish to one another because I can hear every word if I am in our living room. The people across the hall are either irresponsible grad students or undergrads whose favorite pastimes include coming in drunk at 3am and slamming car doors as well as leaving their garbage sitting in the hallway for days on end. Moral of the story: if you live in Woodbury, get an apartment on the top floor. We don't really hear the people that live next to us...not sure if they are super quiet or if the insulation is better in between units. Also, the gym sucks and their are sketchy people that hang out by the dumpsters/park across from our building.

On the upside, we've had no bug issues and they have come to fix stuff within a day of us contacting management. They have breakfast in the clubhouse three times a week. I asked them to redo the bathroom tile to match the kitchen tile before I moved in and they happily agreed to do so.

[mblueyahoo!]

Have any of you ever dealt with Cappo Management? I'm looking at a listing at 804 Monroe, which seems like a great location but is a bit expensive.

Any thoughts?

[03121202698008]

I actually saw you say this in an earlier post. My one concern is some online sites (apartmentratings.com etc.) have had complaints about both Harbor House and Lake Village complaining about noise, excessive heating/cooling bills, difficulty parking, bugs, and absent management staff. Have you experienced any of this? (I always take online rants with a grain of salt so it's nice to hear from someone who actually lives there).

Thanks! (Cute dog BTW)

We've since gotten a new owner and new management. The previous owner died, and his daughter was a partier who drained all profit out so they couldn't repair anything. The new guy has already redone most of the common areas and seems to be doing a great job improving things as he goes. They cleared like 1,200 maintenance backlogs in 3 weeks when they took over. Now it's same day service for the most part.

I have heard complaints about insulation from Lake Village but I don't know how to take them. It gets cold, my utility bills went up to about $180/month for gas/electric during coldest months (my roommate and I are energy hogs). They may just have unrealistic expectations...

Edit: Also, parking isn't an issue at HH. You get one underground parking spot included with apt. There's plenty of parking outside. (The reserved inside spot is especially convient on football days when every other spot will be taken.)