Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

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marsrover
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Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby marsrover » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:15 am

Roger Williams law school is on http://www.complaints.com as a scam. Any thoughts? Is this a "true toilet" law school?


"Roger Williams Law School, although accredited by the ABA, is a poor quality institution with an unprofessional staff and less than qualified faculty. The primary purpose of this institution is financial and not to educate future lawyers: once you are a student here, they provide very little cooperation and assistance to you.

Speaking to past students, their experiences are on the whole incredibly negative. Professors seem unqualified to teach, school policies are convoluted and not evenly upheld, minority students are treated unfairly and are at times discriminated against, and dealing with the registrar's office is a nightmare.

Students also encounter an unusual number of suicides in first year classes because of the school's aggressive 'weed out' strategy to increase its ranking and recover scholarship funds. Also many female students have stated that a few of their professors have made advances on them while they were enrolled in their classes. There are also numerous other problems with the school regarding their claims versus the actuality of the school.

Please do your research before you consider attending this school.

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AlanShore
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby AlanShore » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:18 am

marsrover wrote:Roger Williams law school is on http://www.complaints.com as a scam. Any thoughts? Is this a "true toilet" law school?


"Roger Williams Law School, although accredited by the ABA, is a poor quality institution with an unprofessional staff and less than qualified faculty. The primary purpose of this institution is financial and not to educate future lawyers: once you are a student here, they provide very little cooperation and assistance to you.

Speaking to past students, their experiences are on the whole incredibly negative. Professors seem unqualified to teach, school policies are convoluted and not evenly upheld, minority students are treated unfairly and are at times discriminated against, and dealing with the registrar's office is a nightmare.

Students also encounter an unusual number of suicides in first year classes because of the school's aggressive 'weed out' strategy to increase its ranking and recover scholarship funds. Also many female students have stated that a few of their professors have made advances on them while they were enrolled in their classes. There are also numerous other problems with the school regarding their claims versus the actuality of the school.

Please do your research before you consider attending this school.

:shock:

is there a usual number of suicides forLS??

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Space_Cowboy
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby Space_Cowboy » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:25 am

usnews should use 1L suicide rate in the rankings. Or at least 1L attrition rate.

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Panther7
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby Panther7 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:34 am

Space_Cowboy wrote:usnews should use 1L suicide rate in the rankings. Or at least 1L attrition rate.


not the same thing? :wink:

Snooker
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby Snooker » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:36 am

A study of canadian lawyers found that the suicide rate among attorneys is 5-6 times higher than the general population. At a TTT law school, it is probably 10-15 times higher.

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Space_Cowboy
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby Space_Cowboy » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:37 am

Panther7 wrote:
Space_Cowboy wrote:usnews should use 1L suicide rate in the rankings. Or at least 1L attrition rate.


not the same thing? :wink:


I hope not. Whittier would probably be killing a law student a day (50+% attrition).

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ATOIsp07
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby ATOIsp07 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:38 am

Snooker wrote:A study of canadian lawyers found that the suicide rate among attorneys is 5-6 times higher than the general population. At a TTT law school, it is probably 10-15 times higher.


Or it could be vice-versa...the better the school, the more intense the competition amongst students.

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Space_Cowboy
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby Space_Cowboy » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:49 am

ATOIsp07 wrote:
Snooker wrote:A study of canadian lawyers found that the suicide rate among attorneys is 5-6 times higher than the general population. At a TTT law school, it is probably 10-15 times higher.


Or it could be vice-versa...the better the school, the more intense the competition amongst students.


Yeah, cause all those TTT kids duking it out for a shot at a transfer or Big Law are a relaxed bunch. HLS kids on the other hand, V5 or killself.

lsatbdog
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby lsatbdog » Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:02 am

I feel like this isn't even a legit post, since its the OPs first on the site, but I'll give the standard 0L response.

In this tough legal economy going to a low-ranked school and taking out significant loans to go there is generally considered a bad move. Conventional wisdom says the legal market is oversaturated in addition to the bad economy, so one should be careful before going to law school, by either having employment secured, going to a truly top law school, or taking on very little debt at a regional school without a lot of competition in the area. I don't know anything about Roger Williams, but if it is a low-ranked, expensive law school, then yes, you may want to think long and hard before going there.

trilaw
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby trilaw » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:33 am

Alright I just have to briefly chime in here. First, for a disclosure I went to Roger Williams last year before transferring to a school that I think is in the 60's or 70's, so there is nothing in it for me to defend the school. But I still have to say that the stuff is bullshit. Every teacher I had there was a well respected teacher, most from Harvard, and I see no difference in the teaching their as opposed to my new school. The grade curve was not a problem, and everybody was really laid back and helped each other and I never saw anybody freak out more then a 1L would normally in the situation.
I think the school gets a bad rap because it has made the news once or twice but it is also a fairly new school that does post above average bar passage rates, and as it is the only school in Rhode Island their are some jobs for people, as some offices, private or public, do like hiring local. Also, while their are still students who had no business being in law school, I knew more then a few students who had got in to better schools, like some of the t2 schools in Mass, but chose to go to Roger Williams because they either lived in Rhode Island, really liked the school when they visited, or got a scholarship, and almost nobody is going for some biglaw job, everybody wants public interest.

Saying that I did transfer, in part because I wanted better job prospects, in part because its freaking cold there.

Jsnowboard
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.c

Postby Jsnowboard » Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:56 am

I attended this institution. It sucks. The accusations of professors openly hitting on students are true. I was shown the emails and read what was said. In one of my classes the dean would massage this one kid's shoulders. Two guys just enjoying the law. Makes you wonder how fair and ethical this institution is, how can you compete with that? Gross. I also know for a fact that when a student is not doing too well some of the faculty likes to bring up suicide. Hey it is not that bad, don't hang yourself. Heard that firsthand too. Hahaha. Overall the lack of integrity and ethics starts at the top. As far as alot of suicides there I don't remember it being an issue, just something the administration likes to joke about. I do remember when the economy was better the providence journal ran stories about grads being unable to find jobs. The school did also double admissions. My one piece of advices when you get there go to the career office and ask how many companies come to the career fair. This is one of the things they boast. Then ask yourself if this is such good school with a good reputation why can't I get a job and where is that 100k? Honestly ask how many get hired. Most of the companies come as a favor to someone working there, who is a out here to retire, not to hire you. Ask the right questions and you shall see. The law school relies on smoke and mirrors. Ask for yourself before you get there because otherwise how many professors are you going to have to blow for the gpa and job. Too many. Go someplace where the games aren't as. Intens

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omninode
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.c

Postby omninode » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:05 am

Jsnowboard wrote:Two guys just enjoying the law.



This line made me laugh so hard I didn't bother to read the rest of the post.

SeeMeMakeitHappen
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby SeeMeMakeitHappen » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:19 pm

RWU Today vs. the Early Years (Part 1)

When I read some the complete and utter nonsense and fabrications that passes for law school blogging about RWU, I had to add my two cents. I am a 2008 graduate of the school and chose RWU after closely reviewing the CVs of the faculty, and meeting with my prospective classmates at admissions events for accepted students. Look at the CVs yourself and you will find more Harvard and top 10 law school educated professors than many other so-called better schools. Then look at what they did, namely clerkships and practice, including trying cases before the U.S. Supreme Court, of which we have a number who have made it to the show, and some multiple times, and others who are widely reagrded to be experts in their area of practice, be it getting quoted in national news articles about newsworthy cases or being flown to the Hague to help shape international law. As to the overall quality of the teaching, the faculty was outstanding. They know their subjects (most often from professional experience), bring passion and ethusiasm to teaching, and set high expectations for their students. I had the chance to learn from professors who: were judges (e.g. U.S. District Court), clerked for Antonin Scalia, worked as an Appellate Attorney for the DOJ, just to name a few. Also, they publish at a higher (more prolific) rate than scores of presently better ranked schools (look it up).

As for my classmates, it was my pleasure to learn with and along side an outstanding group of people. Yes, as lower ranked school, there are a small minority of students who have no business being in law school, but as anyone who has completed that journey will tell you, one is often surprised by who drops out and who digs deep and stays, it always who you predict. Yes, at RWU we had a few students who were not cut out for law school and they washed out, which happens everywhere. However, we had a group of dare I say, exceptional students. The Bar passage rates have jumped dramatically over the past several years, for my class we had 93% bar pass rate for MA, 90% for RI, a 91% pass rate for NY, 90% for CT; see --LinkRemoved--. Sucessive classes have fared as well or at times better.

I sat for MA, RI, and NY, and passed all 3 with ease, even left NY early (crushed it, beechahs!). I owe this success in part to the school because their professors truly gave us a solid legal foundation.

In my peer group alone, we had serveral go on to be hired by top tier national law firms, many to top regional firms, a couple RI Supreme Court Clerks, a Director level Attorney at RBS, and many more working for DA and AG offices across the region. A friend and classmate just won a case in the RI Supreme Court, not bad for someone only a few years out of a school folks on here have unjustly maligned, eh?

As the only RI law school, RWU has come into its own and is very tied into the RI legal system and increasingly so in MA, with students landing highly desireable clerksips, internships, and later positions at venerable firms. Now, the economy has particularly unkind to recent graduates of all stripes, and for newly minted JDs, these past few years have particulalry trying, given the number of big firms tanking and or cutting back. All of which means that unless you went to a top tier school, or were a top % student at a lesser school, you had some difficulty finding work. So it was for many of us, which isn't news.

As a relevant side note to all my future brothers and sisters at bar, unless your scores, grades, and gravitas are top tier worthy, find the best school in the area you want to practice. A better overall ranking for a school hundreds or even thousands of miles outside of your region will not help you get a job when the local firms that will hire non-top tier graduates do not know enough about your school and its graduates. Employment is in large based on being a proven commodity or being worth the risk. They hire what they know. Just some advice.

(CONTINUES)

SeeMeMakeitHappen
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby SeeMeMakeitHappen » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:20 pm

RWU Today vs. the Early Years (Part 2 of 2)

Now back to RWU. It is true that when RWU Law started its bar pass rates were bad, but when you make anything from scratch it can take time to get it right.
In the interim there were people who couldn't pass the bar. Most schools do, even the top tiers and they have been in business much much longer. We (2008) had only a few that I knew of, and they all* passed the next time around (*ok, one didn't, but I shall not embarass that person here, as the point is the school prepares its students well to pass the bar) and one was sitting for CA, (widely regarded as one of the top two hardest to pass bar exams along with NY). That said, the rumors of what the bar pass rate was for the school, shortly after it opened its doors instead of NOW, is just silly and seems to be motivated by something other than the altruistic dissemination of information for potential students.

The school's trial teams, moot court and otherwise, have bested a number of better ranked schools (even some top tier schools). When I was there RWU hosted Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia and a variety legal notables who came to speak on other occasions and spend the day with students.

That said, if you care about the ghosts of RWU Law Past, then go elsewhere, but if you live in the here and now, aren't going Tier 1, and want to work in the region, then consider RWU for the reasons I have listed above, and more, while not germaine to a quality of education discussion, quality of life is fantastic, the location is a short drive to Newport, Providence, Boston, Cape Cod, and of course the mountains further north, which, when you need to blow off steam, which you will, you can.
Also, if you are a good to great student, look into the Honors Program, they will get you a goodly amount of financial aid. A number of my classmates had full rides, while others paid a third or less; which is worth your consideration if you otherwise looking at $200K+ in loans from a a presently better ranked tier 3 (etc.) school which will not prepare you for the bar any better or have any/any more pull in your practice region.

That all said, yes, it isn't Harvard, but then if a Tier 1 school is a realistic option for you, you are not considering most law schools in the region, and beyond, including the alma matters of the haters who post such horrible stuff on here about RWU without anything more to back it up other than early year statistics, decade old newspapers articles, and spurious annecdotes.

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fatduck
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby fatduck » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:25 pm

LOL WHAT IS GOING ON IN THIS THREAD

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Systematic1
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby Systematic1 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:36 pm

fatduck wrote:LOL WHAT IS GOING ON IN THIS THREAD


Clearly, Jsnowboard is marsrover ALT.

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bjsesq
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby bjsesq » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:40 pm

That said, if you care about the ghosts of RWU Law Past, then go elsewhere, but if you live in the here and now, aren't going Tier 1, and want to work in the region, then consider RWU for the reasons I have listed above, and more, while not germaine to a quality of education discussion, quality of life is fantastic, the location is a short drive to Newport, Providence, Boston, Cape Cod, and of course the mountains further north, which, when you need to blow off steam, which you will, you can.


A slew of options to pick from, but this one was truly Faulkner/Joyce-esque.

SeeMeMakeitHappen
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby SeeMeMakeitHappen » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:48 pm

A typo or two by no means indicates inebriation while writing. Smug comments like that show you are truly a db looking to play gotcha rather than actually have a dialogue.

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bjsesq
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby bjsesq » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:52 pm

SeeMeMakeitHappen wrote:A typo or two by no means indicates inebriation while writing. Smug comments like that show you are truly a db looking to play gotcha rather than actually have a dialogue.


It has nothing to do with intoxication or typographical errors.

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hookem7
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby hookem7 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:53 pm

Trilaw and SeeMeMakeitHappen just checking in from the RWU Law PR department

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fatduck
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby fatduck » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:56 pm

this thread is playing out like those conversations between internet chatbots

SeeMeMakeitHappen
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby SeeMeMakeitHappen » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:16 pm

I actually have nothing to do with the school other than being a recent graduate. Did I love everything about the school? No, but they keep improving and have long since resolved what I would have complained about.

I have serious issues with how higher education is structured in the U.S. at present, especially the high costs, but this isn't something on which RWU stands alone.

I do not at present think that a sub T1 law school education (and a number of other graduate programs) are worth it if one will be saddled with huge debt in a poor economy and slim job prospects; unless it is something you know you truly and passionately want to do above all else, or can go without incurring a mountain debt, which applies to all schools below Tier 2, and quite a few at T2. The value of a law school education compared with its costs is an argument worth exploring; but to single out and dump on RWU the way some here have is simply unfair. All else equal, anyone who applies there or considers anything below a Tier 2 school is in damn near the same boat come November/December when you get your bar results, you're kidding yourself if think otherwise.

Students need to do their research, and own their decisions. This site helps with said research, but not when it spreads untrue, inaccurate, and out of date information about the school.

Is RWU worth it? It is as worth it as a multitude of equally ranked schools, and many better ranked schools; which doesn't necessarily mean law school itself is worth it to anyone who goes, that is up to the individual. If you go to a better ranked school (sub T1), and can't pass the bar, your school's reputation and alumni network will not do you much good. And, if you do go to a higher ranked (sub T1) school, but do not earn your way to the top of the class (law review etc.) unless you are looking locally, most national firms won't touch you either, so unless you want to stay in (insert name of less than exciting state here), you have to have go to the best school in your market that you can. There are no guarantees.

Where this elitist blogosphere-gang-rape of RWU is coming from is questionable.

Hookem, as to my motivations, I was merely sticking up for my school and giving my two cents (and a jar of loose change I had on my nightstand, I know, I am verbose...), because what I have read here is not true and unfairly characterizes RWU. Our bar pass rate is presently high. The professors are worth their salt. A great percentage of graduates presently do get good jobs. Did the school make mistakes when it started? Yes, but when you look at how far the school has come in a relatively short time, in comparison to schools which have been around considerably longer and still suck, you'll get where I am coming from.

BJEsq, as to my writing style, I write how I speak, mea culpa if you didn't intend it as a jab, but to many 'Faulkneresque' means writing while drunk, which is meant to insult the writer as incoherent, which I am not...and is fighting words where I come from.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby Lawquacious » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:20 pm

Space_Cowboy wrote:usnews should use 1L suicide rate in the rankings. Or at least 1L attrition rate.



+1

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rinkrat19
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:25 pm

SeeMeMakeitHappen wrote:BJEsq, as to my writing style, I write how I speak, mea culpa if you didn't intend it as a jab, but to many 'Faulkneresque' means writing while drunk, which is meant to insult the writer as incoherent, which I am not...and is fighting words where I come from.
In this case it has to do with run-on (and on, and on, and on) sentences and an extreme surfeit of commas.

SeeMeMakeitHappen
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Re: Roger Williams Law on complaints.com

Postby SeeMeMakeitHappen » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:26 pm

rinkrat19

nolo contendere.




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