Louisiana Law Schools Salary Question.

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doug_7506
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Louisiana Law Schools Salary Question.

Postby doug_7506 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:05 am

Just looked up some recent salary numbers. These are all for students getting work in the private field.

Tulane $140,000
LSU $65,000
Loyola $92,000
Southern $92,000

Makes no sense to me.... Anyone care to elaborate?

Not trying to say salary will determine where I go to law school... Just found these numbers odd...

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Cemoore4
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Re: Louisiana Law Schools Salary Question.

Postby Cemoore4 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:13 am

Hey,
I am also looking into going to school in LA since it is my homestate. From what I know/heard, those bottom two numbers definitely confuse me. No idea how those could be accurate. Also, I'm not sure where you are getting these numbers, but I think Tulane's TLS profile only has 37% of it's class reporting that salary figure. Would like to hear what everyone else thinks also.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Louisiana Law Schools Salary Question.

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:47 am

doug_7506 wrote:Just looked up some recent salary numbers. These are all for students getting work in the private field.

Tulane $140,000
LSU $65,000
Loyola $92,000
Southern $92,000

Makes no sense to me.... Anyone care to elaborate?

Not trying to say salary will determine where I go to law school... Just found these numbers odd...


Tulane 1L here.

First and foremost, 99% of schools lie about their salary.

Whether it be a tier 4 fighting for low LSATs, or a T6 fighting to remain within that said bracket.

I thought Southern did not report it's salary data (they refuse to answer the US News survey so you must have either 1) made up that data or 2) got it from somewhere else).

(All of my salary estimates are "median" estimates)

SOUTHERN: Anyway Southern's median private sector salary is probably around $30,000-$40,000. A large portion of each class is failed out and then another significant portion is unemployed. It's an HBCU - and as much as this pains me to say being a URM, HBCU law programs are death sentences to begin with so stay far far away (except for Howard which has employment outcomes on par or better than roughly all T1s aside from the T14).

LOYOLA: Most of the Loyola grads work in New Orleans (they dominate here - by quantity [I wouldn't know about quality]). As a result, Loyola's salary would be a little higher (but the COL difference would make up for it). I would roughly estimate that their starting salary median would be around $50,0000.

LSU: LSU dominates the state, not unlike Ole Miss, UGA, U of Alabama, U of North Carolina, or U of Texas. A portion of LSU grads do go to Texas - I'm not sure of how many, but it's relatively slim. LSU's starting salary median is around $55,000 (100% reporting - US News).

TULANE: On average only about 25% of the class stays in Louisiana (about 15% of each class comes from Louisiana). Tulane graduates end up spreading out around the US usually to the states of NY, LA, TX, CA, FL, and to a lesser extent, DC (I can't for the life of me explain why Tulane cannot grasp the GA market). Tulane places 60% in firms. At 30% (median of the 60%), the median salary in private practice would fall into Tulane's big law range (top 1/3 of the class - prior to the economy of course). So it's starting salary median is probably somewhere around $110,000-$170,000.

All of these estimates were from the data you provided and US News - and also simple calculations.

I'm not going to speculate on what the salaries are now, but I assume they're lower like everyone elses.

I really hope I didn't confuse anyone with the math and percentages.

To make things more clear, LSU places 61% in firms. That would mean that the $55,000 would be within the top 1/3 of the total class (which clearly exceeds their big law placement).

Law school data can become pretty confusing.

EDIT: Editing for typos
Last edited by Aberzombie1892 on Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:43 am, edited 3 times in total.

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doug_7506
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Re: Louisiana Law Schools Salary Question.

Postby doug_7506 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:01 am

thanks for the great reply,
got my info from usn and irlg.
Difference that you said are what I expected just never found anything to back it up. I would like to see what Tulane instate private salaries are.

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
doug_7506 wrote:Just looked up some recent salary numbers. These are all for students getting work in the private field.

Tulane $140,000
LSU $65,000
Loyola $92,000
Southern $92,000

Makes no sense to me.... Anyone care to elaborate?

Not trying to say salary will determine where I go to law school... Just found these numbers odd...


Tulane 1L here.

First and foremost, 99% of schools lie about their salary.

Whether it be a tier 4 fighting for low LSATs, or a T6 fighting to remain within that said bracket.

I thought Southern did not report it's salary data (they refuse to answer the US News survey so you must have either 1) made up that data or 2) got it from somewhere else).

(All of my salary estimates are "median" estimates)

SOUTHERN: Anyway Southern's median private sector salary is probably around $30,000-$40,000. A large portion of each class is failed out and then another significant portion is unemployed. It's an HBCU - and as much as this pains me to say being a URM, HBCU law programs are death sentences to begin with so stay far far away (except for Howard which has employment outcomes on par pr better than roughly all T1s aside from the T14).

LOYOLA: Most of the Loyola grads work in New Orleans (they dominate here - by quantity [I wouldn't know about quality]). As a result, Loyola's salary would be a little higher (but the COL difference would make up for it). I would roughly estimate that their starting salary median would be around $50,0000.

LSU: LSU dominates the state, not unlike Ole Miss, UGA, U of Alabama, U of North Carolina, or U of Texas. A portion of LSU grads do go to Texas - I'm not sure of how many, but it's relatively slim. LSU's starting salary median is around $55,000 (100% reporting - US News).

TULANE: On average only about 25% of the class stays in New Orleans (about 15% of each class comes from Louisiana). Tulane graduates end up spreading out around the US usually to the states of NY, LA, TX, CA, FL, and to a lesser extent, DC (I can't for the life of me explain why Tulane cannot grasp the GA market). Anyway prior to the economy problems, Tulane placed 60% in firms. At 30% (median of the 60%), the median salary in private practice would fall into Tulane's big law range (top 1/3 of the class - prior to the economy of course). So it's starting salary median is probably be somewhere around $110,000-$170,000.

All of these estimates were from the data you provided and US News - and also simple calculations.

I'm not going to speculate on what the salaries are now, but I assume they're lower like everyone elses.

I really hope I didn't confuse anyone with the math and percentages.

To make things more clear, LSU places 61% in firms. That would mean that the $55,000 would be within the top 1/3 of the total class (which clearly exceeds their big law placement).

Law school data can become pretty confusing.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Louisiana Law Schools Salary Question.

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:16 am

doug_7506 wrote:thanks for the great reply,
got my info from usn and irlg.
Difference that you said are what I expected just never found anything to back it up. I would like to see what Tulane instate private salaries are.


Well...

The market rate for big firms in Louisiana is around ~$100,000.

Louisiana has some smaller firms (less than 100 lawyers) that pay market as well.

However the problem is that the 25% that stay rank all across the board ( i.e. someone in the top 25% would stay as would some in the bottom 25%).

So all one can really do is speculate, unfortunately.

I would like to take an educated guess, but it's just too unpredictable (anywhere from $60,000 - $110,000).

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BriaTharen
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Re: Louisiana Law Schools Salary Question.

Postby BriaTharen » Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:23 am

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
doug_7506 wrote:Just looked up some recent salary numbers. These are all for students getting work in the private field.

Tulane $140,000
LSU $65,000
Loyola $92,000
Southern $92,000

Makes no sense to me.... Anyone care to elaborate?

Not trying to say salary will determine where I go to law school... Just found these numbers odd...


Tulane 1L here.

First and foremost, 99% of schools lie about their salary.

Whether it be a tier 4 fighting for low LSATs, or a T6 fighting to remain within that said bracket.

I thought Southern did not report it's salary data (they refuse to answer the US News survey so you must have either 1) made up that data or 2) got it from somewhere else).

(All of my salary estimates are "median" estimates)

SOUTHERN: Anyway Southern's median private sector salary is probably around $30,000-$40,000. A large portion of each class is failed out and then another significant portion is unemployed. It's an HBCU - and as much as this pains me to say being a URM, HBCU law programs are death sentences to begin with so stay far far away (except for Howard which has employment outcomes on par or better than roughly all T1s aside from the T14).

LOYOLA: Most of the Loyola grads work in New Orleans (they dominate here - by quantity [I wouldn't know about quality]). As a result, Loyola's salary would be a little higher (but the COL difference would make up for it). I would roughly estimate that their starting salary median would be around $50,0000.

LSU: LSU dominates the state, not unlike Ole Miss, UGA, U of Alabama, U of North Carolina, or U of Texas. A portion of LSU grads do go to Texas - I'm not sure of how many, but it's relatively slim. LSU's starting salary median is around $55,000 (100% reporting - US News).

TULANE: On average only about 25% of the class stays in Louisiana (about 15% of each class comes from Louisiana). Tulane graduates end up spreading out around the US usually to the states of NY, LA, TX, CA, FL, and to a lesser extent, DC (I can't for the life of me explain why Tulane cannot grasp the GA market). Anyway prior to the economy problems, Tulane placed 60% in firms. At 30% (median of the 60%), the median salary in private practice would fall into Tulane's big law range (top 1/3 of the class - prior to the economy of course). So it's starting salary median is probably be somewhere around $110,000-$170,000.

All of these estimates were from the data you provided and US News - and also simple calculations.

I'm not going to speculate on what the salaries are now, but I assume they're lower like everyone elses.

I really hope I didn't confuse anyone with the math and percentages.

To make things more clear, LSU places 61% in firms. That would mean that the $55,000 would be within the top 1/3 of the total class (which clearly exceeds their big law placement).

Law school data can become pretty confusing.


SOUTHERN: To add to the conversation about Southern, unless you literally have no other options, do not go to a law school that has a bar passage rate of 55% with about a quarter of their students dropping out.

TULANE: As far as Tulane goes- what Aberzombie1892 did bring up is correct about many Tulane graduates leaving Louisiana. As a significant number go to New York, and these numbers are not adjusted to achieve a uniform cost of living, it makes sense that Tulane would have such a high salary outside of the fact that their degree is probably the most valuable in the state.

LSU: The LSU numbers, from what I can tell on their website is not just private- it is public and private. According to a graphic on their site:
Average starting salary: $63,401
Lowest starting salary: $27,500
Highest starting salary: $160,000

Take everything with a grain of salt- especially when it comes to salary numbers. But I think that there is something very very wrong with Southern's numbers. I would pay sticker at Cooley before I would go Hamilton at Southern.

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Pufer
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Re: Louisiana Law Schools Salary Question.

Postby Pufer » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:48 am

JessicaTiger wrote:LSU: The LSU numbers, from what I can tell on their website is not just private- it is public and private. According to a graphic on their site:
Average starting salary: $63,401
Lowest starting salary: $27,500
Highest starting salary: $160,000


Adjusting for variance in cost of living across regions, that's basically the salary breakdown for all T1 schools outside the top-20 (and most T2 schools as well). Some folks get biglaw @ $160k, some folks get PI jobs paying in the $30k's, and the average is around $70k (with more earning below that than above).

Biglaw placement percentages are the only numbers that matter if you're looking for a school offering the potential for a high salary in real terms. All schools send new lawyers out into the same legal market - one that is clearly tiered. If you're in biglaw in a big market, you make $160k. If you're in biglaw in a medium market (or midlaw in a big market), you make $100-120k. All other private practice types make $45-75k. PI types/clerks make $30-55k.

Tulane's placement numbers in legit, national biglaw are comparable to those of similarly ranked schools, which is to say thirteen-ish percent in a good year, less in a bad year (like, say, this year). BYU, Pitt, Tennessee, and Colorado place comparably (both in national and local biglaw), and nobody should be flocking to Tennessee or CU expecting biglaw jobs (take it from a CU student). It's by far the best in the state, though, with Loyola and LSU having less than half the biglaw placement of Tulane (and you can probably guess at how Southern does).

-Pufer

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MoS
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Re: Louisiana Law Schools Salary Question.

Postby MoS » Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:35 am

Its important to remember you numbers only come from what is reported. That means if graduates don't have a job, it is not reflected in the median. It also means its not verifiable. Also, allot of people just don't report. I believe that number for Tulane is based of around 36% reporting, so its not exactly representative.

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doug_7506
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Re: Louisiana Law Schools Salary Question.

Postby doug_7506 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:33 am

Wow, thanks a bunch for all of the good replies.. As far as southern is concerned, I did not even apply. I figured if I did not get int LSU or Loyola I would retake the LSAT since I only had three weeks to study for it.

Tulanes number were always kind of up in the air also. Just for the fact that so many leave the state and that, as mentioned earlier, only aroudnd 30% report.

For me it has always been between LSU and Loyola. LSU was the best option as it was cheap and I want to pratice in BR which makes it even better. Loyola would have been a good option if I would have recieved some scholarship money. Tulane was never really an option for the fact that it would have been 100k more than LSU. (thats over four years since I am going jd/mba) I just did not feel that I would earn enough extra to pay down the debt. This would be different if I did not care where I worked.

Thanks again for all the help. I feel better about my decision now.




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