Davis 3L taking questions

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davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:57 pm

drdolittle wrote:Thanks for doing this. And thanks to all others who've made constructive comments.

What's your impression of Davis vs. SCU, or other similarly ranked specialized T2 schools for that matter, for intellectual property law? Would this be a field where going to a lower ranked IP school with $$ make some sense? How much sense?

BTW, I'm a biomed PhD and will target IP, but I like the idea of going to a place like Davis. It would probably end up being more expensive than a lower ranked IP specialist school like SCU, though I get the sense that the overall caliber of the profs and students, and therefore the educational experience, at Davis would be better. What do you think?

Also, I've spent many years living in SF and could not agree more with your, SoftBoiledLife's and even the venerable Ken's posts on the Davis/Hastings debate. As you all mentioned, people should simply visit the two campuses to make an informed, personal decision.


If you don't have a huge geographic preference, the two things you should compare between the schools are 1) quaity of education, and 2) ease of finding a job.

As far as the quality of your IP education goes, I will only say that our four main IP profs are graduates of: Yale, Yale, Stanford, and Columbia. And two of them had Circuit clerkships. Not that pedigree always equals quality teaching...but I would have a hard time believing anyone from SCU who says their IP professors are more qualified than ours.

Which school will you have an easier time finding an IP job from? I really don't know. SCU probably claims they have a lot of "alumni and networking opportunities" in Silicon Valley. In general, I'm not the biggest fan of using alumni and networking to find jobs. I just don't think an employer cares THAT MUCH about hiring a student from where he graduated. It's all very squishy to say that a school has a "broad alumni network." Ya, so what? I'd hire a Harvard kid over a Davis kid any day (other things equal). And alumni connections don't mean anything if the employer isn't even hiring.

What isn't squishy is that Davis OCI owns Santa Clara OCI, and therefore if you want a private firm job, your chances at Davis OCI will be pretty much mathematically better.

What makes this a moderately close call is the scholarship. Three years ago I turned down money at SCU for Davis. But the legal market is completely different now. It all depends on how much money they offered you, how your personal finances are, how much you care about having big loans. Also it's important to note that while you might've gotten scholarship at SCU, you might lose that money if you don't have a certain class rank after 1L. On the other hand, Davis gives considerable amounts of grants that aren't tied to your grades...in fact, a lot of people get MORE grants for 2L and 3L.

In sum - if you got at least 20k/yr scholarship from SCU that isn't tied to grades, and if you have a strong preference to live in Silicon Valley over Davis for three years, then it would make sense to pick SCU. Otherwise, no.

Inygma
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby Inygma » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:50 pm

What are your recommendations for Apartment Complexes? I have been reading the DavisWiki and every apartment has so many bad comments it makes me sad. If you guys have/heard any personal recommendations I'd love to here them.

davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:38 am

Inygma wrote:What are your recommendations for Apartment Complexes? I have been reading the DavisWiki and every apartment has so many bad comments it makes me sad. If you guys have/heard any personal recommendations I'd love to here them.


Some people who post on DavisWiki are on crack. Don't worry, there are a ton of nice complexes here.

I can't really recommend specific complexes because I've only been to a few. If you really want, you can ask me about a specific complex you're considering and I'll ask around.

The complexes in Davis vary based on how close to campus they are. As a general rule, the ones within a couple miles of campus are pretty much like normal college apartments...not really high-end, fairly noisy with lots of undergrads, almost like motel setup. But they're useful because you can walk or bike to school. If you're looking for "nice" apartments (newer, less noisy, more like suburb apartments), you need to look south of highway 80 or west of highway 113.

Inygma
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby Inygma » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:49 am

davis3l wrote:
Inygma wrote:What are your recommendations for Apartment Complexes? I have been reading the DavisWiki and every apartment has so many bad comments it makes me sad. If you guys have/heard any personal recommendations I'd love to here them.


Some people who post on DavisWiki are on crack. Don't worry, there are a ton of nice complexes here.

I can't really recommend specific complexes because I've only been to a few. If you really want, you can ask me about a specific complex you're considering and I'll ask around.

The complexes in Davis vary based on how close to campus they are. As a general rule, the ones within a couple miles of campus are pretty much like normal college apartments...not really high-end, fairly noisy with lots of undergrads, almost like motel setup. But they're useful because you can walk or bike to school. If you're looking for "nice" apartments (newer, less noisy, more like suburb apartments), you need to look south of highway 80 or west of highway 113.


Thanks, I'll browse and throw you some names and you can tell me what you've heard.... thanks again

vl2104
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby vl2104 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:00 pm

davis3l wrote:What isn't squishy is that Davis OCI owns Santa Clara OCI, and therefore if you want a private firm job, your chances at Davis OCI will be pretty much mathematically better.


Interested in this too.
For OCI, are you referring to only firms hiring IP folks or all firms?
I was under the impression that all firms hiring for IP positions that OCI at Hastings/Davis would also OCI at SCU...

davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:24 pm

vl2104 wrote:
davis3l wrote:What isn't squishy is that Davis OCI owns Santa Clara OCI, and therefore if you want a private firm job, your chances at Davis OCI will be pretty much mathematically better.


Interested in this too.
For OCI, are you referring to only firms hiring IP folks or all firms?
I was under the impression that all firms hiring for IP positions that OCI at Hastings/Davis would also OCI at SCU...



Good point, didn't really think about this. However, I still think someone wanting IP would have a better chance at Davis OCI. My reasoning is, I doubt there are any IP firms that interview at Santa Clara but not at Davis...maybe a couple really small firms. But there are a ton of firms that interview at Davis, not at Santa Clara. And these firms, while not hiring exclusively for IP positions, nevertheless have large IP practice groups. Especially with the shitty economy, it might even be wise to target all general practice firms, get a summer associate job, get an offer, THEN strongly request that you work in the IP practice group. If you only apply to pure IP positions, you will have a very uphill climb.

Inygma
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby Inygma » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:42 pm

Do you know if it is possible to get merit scholarships in addition to Need Based grants? Should I ask/negotiate for some merit aid in addition to my generous Need Based grant (as it is only for 1L)

davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:52 pm

Inygma wrote:Do you know if it is possible to get merit scholarships in addition to Need Based grants? Should I ask/negotiate for some merit aid in addition to my generous Need Based grant (as it is only for 1L)



Well first of all, the need grants aren't exactly only for 1L. If you're getting 10k need-based for 1L, you're almost guaranteed to get at least that much for 2L and 3L. Technically your 1L grant is for only one year because they re-evaluate your finances each year. But nobody's finances really change, so you'll end up getting similar grants for all three years. Note that financial aid stuff really varies for each person, so I'm not 100% sure about any of this. I'm only going by what I've heard from friends and my own experiences.

I have no idea whether it's possible to negotiate for merit aid. My guess would be, unless you're above 75th percentile LSAT and GPA, it's not looking good for merit aid...especially if you've already been offered "generous" need-based.

Inygma
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby Inygma » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:11 pm

West Davis seems to be the place I would want to stay.

Have you heard anything about Glacier Point Apartments?

Inygma
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby Inygma » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:13 pm

davis3l wrote:
Inygma wrote:Do you know if it is possible to get merit scholarships in addition to Need Based grants? Should I ask/negotiate for some merit aid in addition to my generous Need Based grant (as it is only for 1L)



Well first of all, the need grants aren't exactly only for 1L. If you're getting 10k need-based for 1L, you're almost guaranteed to get at least that much for 2L and 3L. Technically your 1L grant is for only one year because they re-evaluate your finances each year. But nobody's finances really change, so you'll end up getting similar grants for all three years. Note that financial aid stuff really varies for each person, so I'm not 100% sure about any of this. I'm only going by what I've heard from friends and my own experiences.

I have no idea whether it's possible to negotiate for merit aid. My guess would be, unless you're above 75th percentile LSAT and GPA, it's not looking good for merit aid...especially if you've already been offered "generous" need-based.



My financial aid will probably change because my wife will be getting a full time job when we move up there, but thanks for the info.

davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:25 pm

Ya if you're going to have significant income change, then your merit aid might go down.

I don't know anyone who lives in Glacier Point, but I've driven by it, and it looks nice from the outside. Pretty good location, right off the major street that goes through North Davis...about 10 minute drive to King Hall.

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pootie
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby pootie » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:06 pm

Is it a bad idea to take on a part-time job as a 1L? Is there time for such a thing? Does anyone do this??

davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:28 pm

pootie wrote:Is it a bad idea to take on a part-time job as a 1L? Is there time for such a thing? Does anyone do this??



It's a bad idea if you even remotely care about grades. I only know of a couple people who've done this.

It's not that there isn't enough time...people who complain about lack of time during 1L are either a) gunners who study 16 hours a day, or b) whinny. The problem is, if you work even a few hours a week, you'll have to cut out leisure or rest time, both of which are crucial to not only making decent grades, but to your well being in the long run.

Also I'm pretty sure the ABA limits the number of hours 1Ls can work.

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pootie
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby pootie » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:10 pm

davis3l wrote:
pootie wrote:Is it a bad idea to take on a part-time job as a 1L? Is there time for such a thing? Does anyone do this??



It's a bad idea if you even remotely care about grades. I only know of a couple people who've done this.

It's not that there isn't enough time...people who complain about lack of time during 1L are either a) gunners who study 16 hours a day, or b) whinny. The problem is, if you work even a few hours a week, you'll have to cut out leisure or rest time, both of which are crucial to not only making decent grades, but to your well being in the long run.

Also I'm pretty sure the ABA limits the number of hours 1Ls can work.


Thanks! That's what I thought. It's just hard to imagine not working- having worked through high school and undergrad. ~Law school scares me.

davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:25 pm

Don't worry, it's not nearly as scary as people think (at least at Davis it's not). Like I said, you''ll have plenty of time to rest, have fun, do whatever.

Inygma
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby Inygma » Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:29 pm

Have you heard anything about Twin Pines? It is low income housing, so not sure if it is sketchy like low-income housing over here in LA.

Also, is Sycamore Commons a nice area? I'm looking into a place there on Friday.

davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:47 pm

Inygma wrote:Have you heard anything about Twin Pines? It is low income housing, so not sure if it is sketchy like low-income housing over here in LA.

Also, is Sycamore Commons a nice area? I'm looking into a place there on Friday.


I've definitely never heard of Twin Pines, but just looking at it on the map, I'm almost certain it's in one of the nicer areas in Davis. There is a really nice lake/nature reserve area nearby.

Sycamore North Commons is also a nice area...Safeway/shopping center right across the street.

Inygma
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby Inygma » Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:25 pm

davis3l wrote:
Inygma wrote:Have you heard anything about Twin Pines? It is low income housing, so not sure if it is sketchy like low-income housing over here in LA.

Also, is Sycamore Commons a nice area? I'm looking into a place there on Friday.


I've definitely never heard of Twin Pines, but just looking at it on the map, I'm almost certain it's in one of the nicer areas in Davis. There is a really nice lake/nature reserve area nearby.

Sycamore North Commons is also a nice area...Safeway/shopping center right across the street.


Good to hear about Sycamore North Commons, I am going to see a townhouse there on friday

Inygma
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby Inygma » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:53 pm

Last Apartment questions (hopefully). What's the word on Tanglewood? Looks/sounds nice, but there are a few things I've read that it has a high crime rate. Wondering what you know about it.

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drdolittle
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby drdolittle » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:11 pm

What do Davis students typically do for summer internships/jobs in and around SF? I really like Davis' college town locale, but I'm concerned that its distance away might be a major disadvantage for networking and landing opportunities closer to SF/peninsula (especially outside of OCI), where I'd most reasonably expect to find IP work during and after school.

davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:52 pm

drdolittle wrote:What do Davis students typically do for summer internships/jobs in and around SF? I really like Davis' college town locale, but I'm concerned that its distance away might be a major disadvantage for networking and landing opportunities closer to SF/peninsula (especially outside of OCI), where I'd most reasonably expect to find IP work during and after school.



Location makes no difference for networking purposes. It's not like people go to alumni mixers every weekend. And even if you wanted to, not many people get jobs that way, despite what career services likes to tell students. If you really are set on networking a lot, you can always make a couple trips to SF each semester to meet people.

Location does make a difference for interships. Obviously SF has more legal employers than Sac, so if you go to school in SF, you'll have more intern possibilities. But this is only true during the school year, when you can effectively only intern at places within close driving distance. During the summer, you can intern wherever the hell you want, and PLENTY of students go to SF for the summer. Where do they work? Anywhere and everywhere. Let me know if you want specifics.
Last edited by davis3l on Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Inygma
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby Inygma » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:58 pm

In case you missed my last question (since it is rare that more than 1 question is posted at the same time in this thread)

"Last Apartment questions (hopefully). What's the word on Tanglewood? Looks/sounds nice, but there are a few things I've read that it has a high crime rate. Wondering what you know about it."

davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:04 pm

Inygma wrote:In case you missed my last question (since it is rare that more than 1 question is posted at the same time in this thread)

"Last Apartment questions (hopefully). What's the word on Tanglewood? Looks/sounds nice, but there are a few things I've read that it has a high crime rate. Wondering what you know about it."



HAHAHA crime at Tanglewood? It's a great complex in the nicest part of Davis (South Davis). Maybe there is petty crime, like stealing bikes? Trust me, you will feel very comfortable living anywhere in South Davis

neilu789
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby neilu789 » Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:21 pm

Do you know anything about the waitlist at Davis. Specifically, if they generally use it? How many spots they fill with waitlist? when they go to the waitlist?
I been seeing a lot of information that makes me believe that Davis has a comparatively very low yield percentage? The 25/75 percentiles of admitted students and enrolled students varies quite a bit. Do you know why?
Also do you(or anyone else here) know anything about financial aid for waitlisted students. I have filled out the need assessment thing and the FAFSA, but i know that at some schools if you are admitted off the waitlist you can't get any financial aid.

Thanks!

davis3l
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Re: Davis 3L taking questions

Postby davis3l » Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:37 pm

neilu789 wrote:Do you know anything about the waitlist at Davis. Specifically, if they generally use it? How many spots they fill with waitlist? when they go to the waitlist?
I been seeing a lot of information that makes me believe that Davis has a comparatively very low yield percentage? The 25/75 percentiles of admitted students and enrolled students varies quite a bit. Do you know why?
Also do you(or anyone else here) know anything about financial aid for waitlisted students. I have filled out the need assessment thing and the FAFSA, but i know that at some schools if you are admitted off the waitlist you can't get any financial aid.

Thanks!


1. Waitlist - you can get in if you really want it. I know a few people who got in off the waitlist because they wrote genuine letters explaining why they like Davis. You should be careful that your letter doesn't sound too..."Davis is best for ME because MY goals are X, Y, Z." Try to explain why you would be a good fit for the King Hall community.

2. Yield - the yield stats don't mean anything.

3. Financial aid for waitlist students - yes you can absolutely get need-based grants if you get in off the waitlist.




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