NYU 2L taking ? for a bit Forum

[twistedwrister]

Any idea of numbers (i.e. percentage with callbacks/offers) for students interested in PI/govt?

I don't have a good handle on how the PI/govt job search went for 2L's this year because I pretty much focused on firms. Also, the PI/govt job recruiting and interviewing season is typically later than the firm interviewing season -- most firms are pretty much done hiring by now, but PI/govt hiring is just hitting full stride.

That being said, I know that the PI/govt job search went well for NYU 1L's last year. I had several PI and govt 1L summer job offers, and most people I know ended up working in the public sector after 1L. NYU's public interest legal career fair (PILC fair) is amazing. They bring in tons of PI/govt employers, and law schools from all over the country participate. That is how I got my 1L job.

[twistedwrister]

How highly would NYU rate (againsts MVPB) in training students for careers in legal academia?

I know they have strong faculty in areas on jurisprudence/legal philosophy, but I was wondering if the NYC location makes the school extremely big law focused.

I really can't compare NYU to MVPB, but I can tell you that NYU does have one of the top jurisprudence/legal history departments in the country, both in terms of quality (Jeremy Waldron, David Garland, John Ferejohn, etc.) and quantity (there are over 30 jurisprudence/legal history classes and seminars next semester).

Also, NYU has really ramped up its efforts to get students "prestigious" clerkships. From the NYU law website:

"Due to the efforts of the Law School’s judicial clerkship program, more than 130 graduates work as clerks every year. In Fall 2010, 45 NYU Law alumni will clerk at the federal appellate level. Seven of them will, like Marwell, clerk for the District of Columbia Circuit, while 10 others will be on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit. Three out of 10 clerks at the Delaware Court of Chancery, the go-to court nationally for business disputes, will come from the NYU School of Law. Alumni also clerk every year at the International Court of Justice in The Hague."

Hope this helps!

Edited: I just realized I didn't answer your question re whether or not NYU is Biglaw focused. I would say that most students from NYU do end up at firms, but I don't find the school to be "all about Biglaw" at all. Many students aim to work for the government, or for various non-profit organizations. I don't know how well any law school can prepare you for a career in academia, but I think that as long as you do well at NYU, the door will be wide open for you.

[Snooker]

NYU median for biglaw? It sounds really tough over there. Does anyone know how all the top schools are faring in terms of employment? This is what I have heard so far:

NYU - top 50%
Michigan - top 30%
Texas - top 40%

[ankit]

How highly would NYU rate (againsts MVPB) in training students for careers in legal academia?

I know they have strong faculty in areas on jurisprudence/legal philosophy, but I was wondering if the NYC location makes the school extremely big law focused.

I really can't compare NYU to MVPB, but I can tell you that NYU does have one of the top jurisprudence/legal history departments in the country, both in terms of quality (Jeremy Waldron, David Garland, John Ferejohn, etc.) and quantity (there are over 30 jurisprudence/legal history classes and seminars next semester).

Also, NYU has really ramped up its efforts to get students "prestigious" clerkships. From the NYU law website:

"Due to the efforts of the Law School’s judicial clerkship program, more than 130 graduates work as clerks every year. In Fall 2010, 45 NYU Law alumni will clerk at the federal appellate level. Seven of them will, like Marwell, clerk for the District of Columbia Circuit, while 10 others will be on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit. Three out of 10 clerks at the Delaware Court of Chancery, the go-to court nationally for business disputes, will come from the NYU School of Law. Alumni also clerk every year at the International Court of Justice in The Hague."

Hope this helps!

Edited: I just realized I didn't answer your question re whether or not NYU is Biglaw focused. I would say that most students from NYU do end up at firms, but I don't find the school to be "all about Biglaw" at all. Many students aim to work for the government, or for various non-profit organizations. I don't know how well any law school can prepare you for a career in academia, but I think that as long as you do well at NYU, the door will be wide open for you.

Hey thanks a ton! That is really helpful!

[tintin]

any idea how NYU is with regards to placing students into academia?

[twistedwrister]

any idea how NYU is with regards to placing students into academia?

I'm not sure how NYU compares to other top schools, but NYU does have a well-established program (the Academic Careers Program) designed to guide students who want to work in academia (see link below).

http://www.law.nyu.edu/acp/index.htm

Hope this helps.

[TheWire]

I'm really excited to (probably) be at NYU in the fall. I was wondering if you could maybe elaborate on how close the law school students are. One of my fears of going to a school with such a big class size is that it will be far more difficult to familiarize yourself with the rest of the student population. Thanks!

[twistedwrister]

I'm really excited to (probably) be at NYU in the fall. I was wondering if you could maybe elaborate on how close the law school students are. One of my fears of going to a school with such a big class size is that it will be far more difficult to familiarize yourself with the rest of the student population. Thanks!

Congrats! Even though NYU has a large class size, I've found it very easy to meet people and make good friends. I think there are several reasons for this:

(1) During 1L, the class of ~450 students is broken down into 5 sections of ~90 students each. Everyone in each section has the same schedule, so you see the same 90 people over and over. I became quite close with many people in my section.

(2) The legal writing class (Lawyering) is even smaller - maybe 20-25 students per section. Most of my best law school friends are from my Lawyering section.

(3) There is a wide variety of clubs/organizations you can join, so it's easy to get to know students with similar interests. For example, if you like sports, each Lawyering section usually fields a co-ed flag football team in the Fall -- it's a great way to get some exercise and meet other people.

I certainly don't know everyone in my class, but I don't think that matters much. Also, I think the situation would be similar, regardless of whether you go to a law school with a class of 450 students or one with a class of 200 students -- you will find a group (or several groups) of people you get along with and spend most of your time with them. Having a bigger pool of students just makes it more likely that you will find some people you like.

[TheWire]

thanks so much for the info! do you know anything in particular about the west coast ties other than through your friends' success?

[twistedwrister]

thanks so much for the info! do you know anything in particular about the west coast ties other than through your friends' success?

Unfortunately, it is really difficult to tell how well NYU places on the West Coast because of self-selection -- most NYU law students don't aim to work in CA. However, if you do want to work at a firm in CA, NYU will certainly give you a good shot. I just looked over our OCI (on campus interview) firm list and about 50 Biglaw firms with offices in CA recruited from NYU this year. All the "prestigious" CA Biglaw firms were there - Irell, Munger, Gibson Dunn, Quinn Emanuel, etc. In other words, you won't have a problem getting interviews with CA firms if you go to NYU.

[aad]

How accomodating is the school to requests for deferrals?

I know some schools are relatively open to them (e.g. Columbia) while others are not (e.g. Boalt). I haven't, however, heard too much about NYU in this regard.

Also, does NYU notify students about merit scholarships with the initial acceptance materials or does that information come along later in the proess?

Thank you for taking the time to answer all our questions!

[twistedwrister]

How accomodating is the school to requests for deferrals?

I know some schools are relatively open to them (e.g. Columbia) while others are not (e.g. Boalt). I haven't, however, heard too much about NYU in this regard.

Also, does NYU notify students about merit scholarships with the initial acceptance materials or does that information come along later in the proess?

Thank you for taking the time to answer all our questions!

No problem! Unfortunately, I don't know anything about NYU's deferral policy. NYU makes scholarship decisions after you (the admitted student) submit the NYU School of Law financial aid application. From the NYU Law website:

"To be considered for a Dean’s Award scholarship, individuals must complete the NYU School of Law financial aid application. This application is available to all admitted students and may be accessed through the Admitted Students link. We encourage all admitted students to submit this application, including students who applied for a named scholarship program as part of their application for admission.

Institutional aid is awarded in amounts up to full tuition. Institutional aid may only be used at the School of Law.

Upon receipt of your completed financial aid application, the Committee on Admissions and Financial Aid will review the application together with your application for admission. You will be notified of any award(s) following the Committee's review.

The financial aid awarding process is done on an ongoing basis but is generally completed by early May."

[underdawg]

keep in mind that to be an academic, you really really have to love this shit. like boner poppin' love. of law. no wonder those #'s are low at every school...

[daveseibert]

Hi, thanks for taking questions! Just got the admission email this morning, looks like I'll be coming in the fall!

Problem is, I've never been to NYC before, so I'm thinking on-campus housing would be best until I get to know the area.

Is married housing easy to come by? And, have you seen those apartments?

Thanks!

[twistedwrister]

Hi, thanks for taking questions! Just got the admission email this morning, looks like I'll be coming in the fall!

Problem is, I've never been to NYC before, so I'm thinking on-campus housing would be best until I get to know the area.

Is married housing easy to come by? And, have you seen those apartments?

Thanks!

No problem, and congrats on your admission. Your intuition is probably right - if you've never been to NYC, on-campus housing is likely the way to go. Finding an apartment in NYC can be difficult, to say the least, and on-campus housing has the benefit of being close to the law school. From what I recall, married housing is fairly easy to get. I think NYU will send you some information on housing in general, if they haven't sent it to you already. One of my friends lived in married housing last semester. The address was 130 MacDougal Street. The building was small but right next to the law school. The apartment itself was also small - 300 or 400 square feet, if I remember correctly. However, it had a separate kitchen, bathroom, living room, and bedroom. Essentially, anything you find in The Village will be expensive and small. In order to get more bang for the buck, many students live in Brooklyn and take the subway to school. If you find you need more space, you could always move during 2L or 3L. Again, congrats, and I hope this helps.

[lsathalon]

If you're still around taking questions....

I know NYU doesn't have the same competitive, serious reputation as Chicago, but are the students still exceedingly academically interested? I am really looking forward to being around bright, motivated people next year, and I assume that NYU Law students fit the bill; am I correct?

Thank you for any insight you can give!

[twistedwrister]

If you're still around taking questions....

I know NYU doesn't have the same competitive, serious reputation as Chicago, but are the students still exceedingly academically interested? I am really looking forward to being around bright, motivated people next year, and I assume that NYU Law students fit the bill; am I correct?

Thank you for any insight you can give!

No problem at all! As a disclaimer, when I was applying to law schools, I didn't visit Chicago. For various reasons, I knew I wanted to attend school, and later practice, in the NY/NJ/PA area, so my decision was essentially between NYU, Columbia, and Penn.

Regarding your question, I have never been around a group of people as diverse, intelligent, and motivated as the students at NYU Law. In general, NYU Law students work very hard, but most also realize that there is more to life than law school. They volunteer, play sports, go to movies, etc., if time permits. Also, I get the feeling that most people at NYU Law didn't go to law school solely because they are interested in learning about the law -- they recognize that the law is a means to an end, and the diversity of interests at NYU is astounding. Some want to be prosecutors, others public defenders, still others corporate lawyers, or international law scholars, or environmental lawyers, or academics. The common thread between the students is that, no matter where their interests lie, they want to succeed and excel. Honestly, when I visited NYU Law, I got the feeling that being there would help me change the world, if that is what I decided to do. The school just has a positive vibe.

After you visit the schools in which you are interested, you will realize that one place just feels right. That's the place you should go. If you do well, doors will open for you regardless of whether you go to NYU or Chicago, so you might as well go someplace where you will be happy for 3 years. Hope this helps.

[lsathalon]

Thank you so much! It helps tremendously! Just a few more questions:

-Have you found your professors to be effective teachers?
-Are your professors accessible?
-Is the Socratic method used in most classes, and do you think it is an effective teaching tool?

I really appreciate you answering questions; I love NYU and expect to be there next year!

[twistedwrister]

Thank you so much! It helps tremendously! Just a few more questions:

-Have you found your professors to be effective teachers?
-Are your professors accessible?
-Is the Socratic method used in most classes, and do you think it is an effective teaching tool?

I really appreciate you answering questions; I love NYU and expect to be there next year!

You're welcome! Glad to hear that you'll likely be heading our way. I don't know a single person who regrets choosing NYU. Re your questions.

(1) Of the 16 or so profs I've had, I would consider 14 to be excellent teachers. That's a pretty amazing ratio, no matter how you slice it.
(2) All my profs, even the "famous" ones, have been accessible. All the profs have office hours each week, which are quite well attended. Additionally, several of my profs have weekly lunches with their students, and anyone can sign-up to go. Finally, my professors have always quickly responded to any e-mails I've sent, and they are willing to set-up a time to meet face-to-face if the question is more complex.
(3) In my experience, most profs here use some kind of "soft" Socratic method. Some examples: (1) a panel system, in which several students are on-call for each class; (2) only cold-calling when class discussion stalls; or (3) cold-calling, but if the student doesn't know the answer, the prof just moves on to someone else. I haven't had any "pure" Socratic method teachers who will really ride a kid if he's just not getting it. The Socratic method is just a way the profs use to keep the class discussion lively. As a caveat, class participation typically counts at NYU -- profs usually reserve the right to raise or lower your grade by a half-step (B+ to A-, or vice versa) depending on your participation.

[TheWire]

I was wondering what the dating scene is like. With the big class size, I was hoping that the "high school" reputation of everyone being in everyone's business might be overblown. Do people seem to be social at the weekly bar reviews? How many people usually attend those? How else do people meet each other, hang out?

THanks!

[twistedwrister]

I was wondering what the dating scene is like. With the big class size, I was hoping that the "high school" reputation of everyone being in everyone's business might be overblown. Do people seem to be social at the weekly bar reviews? How many people usually attend those? How else do people meet each other, hang out?

THanks!

Hey - unfortunately, I can't provide much insight re the dating scene b/c I'm in a long-term relationship. However, people get together all the time to grab a drink, go to a movie, etc. Unless you get together with another student in a public place at a law school function, no one is really up in your business. I can't speak for everyone, but I met most of my law school friends in class, particularly our small Lawyering class.

[Veyron]

Hey, thanks so much for doing this. I'm prob going to be a Ol next year at nyu and I needed this into. Could you please tell me:

1. What % of students would you say live in the village?
2. Would you say that the grades you need for biglaw are identical at ccn baring regional differences?
3. How liberal is the school really? As a republican will I be burned at the stake or merely lynched? Is political correctness enshrined?
4. How you decide between NYU and Penn for west coast biglaw?
5. What % of the students are married?

[twistedwrister]

Hey, thanks so much for doing this. I'm prob going to be a Ol next year at nyu and I needed this into. Could you please tell me:

1. What % of students would you say live in the village?
2. Would you say that the grades you need for biglaw are identical at ccn baring regional differences?
3. How liberal is the school really? As a republican will I be burned at the stake or merely lynched? Is political correctness enshrined?
4. How you decide between NYU and Penn for west coast biglaw?
5. What % of the students are married?

No problem!

(1) During 1L, I would say that the large majority (maybe 75-80%) of students live in the Village, if you count the "on-campus" dorms (Mercer and D'Ag). The students that don't live in the Village typically live in Brooklyn b/c it is cheaper and the commute via subway is easy.
(2) Re grades and Biglaw, it's really difficult to tell. I know that some "prestigious" firms essentially have grade cutoffs for each school, and while I know some of the cutoffs for NYU, I don't know the cutoffs for CC. My guess is that the cutoffs, when they exist, are similar for all three schools. In other words, a top 10% student at CC likely won't have any more, or less, opportunities than a top 10% student at NYU. Similarly, a bottom third student at any of CCN will, in general, have trouble getting Biglaw this year. Out of my group of close friends (10 or so), I only know one who wanted Biglaw and hasn't gotten something yet. However, even median and above people at NYU have had fewer opportunities than in past years (e.g., 2-3 callbacks and one offer vs. 5-10 callbacks and multiple offers). I've heard similar things about OCI at Chicago and Columbia as well.
(3) The school is liberal, no doubt about it. However, there are plenty of Republicans and conservatives, and the vast majority of students are respectful of others' views. For example, affirmative action can be a very divisive subject. When we discussed various AA cases in class, many liberal students recognized, and even agreed with, the more typically "conservative" arguments against AA. In other words, most students are liberal but open-minded.
(4) I can't imagine there being much difference b/t NYU's and Penn's placement power in terms of West Coast biglaw. The big question is access -- how many West Coast biglaw firms come to interview at NYU/Penn. I can't speak for Penn, but about 50 Biglaw firms w/ west coast offices interviewed at NYU's OCI this year, including all the prestigious CA biglaw firms (Gibson Dunn, Irell, Munger, etc.)
(5) A higher % of students are married than I originally expected - maybe 5-10%.

EDIT: Re Biglaw, I should mention that the top of the class at NYU had just as many opportunities this year as in any other. I was top 10% and had twentysomething callbacks (I only took a few) and multiple V10 offers.

[underdawg]

as a 2L, about 50% of my friends live in the village. no one lives in the village except at mercer or d'ag

[Veyron]

Ok good. I always got the impression that NYU law was not as tight knit as some other schools.