Northwestern Class of 2017

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kcdc1
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby kcdc1 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:50 pm

This seems to be their version of an AJD ASW?

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissi ... openhouse/


Thanks for pointing this out. I'll look into attending.

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pompoms
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby pompoms » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:26 pm

mirroroferised7 wrote:Also, since I'm going to be in LA that weekend, AND I live in Chicago... what do you think admission's reaction would be to me asking if it was possible for them to help me get in touch with an AJD student to talk to them about the program?


Wow thanks for the heads up - didn't even see that info posted!

I'm sure if you explain to them that you are out of town that weekend they will be understanding, and will appreciate that you still want to engage with an alum. Plus you already attended an on-campus interview.

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cookiejar1
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby cookiejar1 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:09 pm

Hey all - I learned a bunch about Northwestern (and law schools in general) from TLS and so I guess it's my turn to pay it forward. If any of you have any questions ... I'd be happy to answer them. The less generic the question the better. I'm a 1L.

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Leo
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby Leo » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:20 pm

cookiejar1 wrote:Hey all - I learned a bunch about Northwestern (and law schools in general) from TLS and so I guess it's my turn to pay it forward. If any of you have any questions ... I'd be happy to answer them. The less generic the question the better. I'm a 1L.

Okay I'll start us off. Do many 1Ls get summer associate positions? Are they meaningful? I ask because I'm considering the AJD program, which does not have a 1L summer, and I'm trying to determine how severe that particular disadvantage is. Also, how are the AJD students perceived by their 3-yr peers?

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mirroroferised7
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby mirroroferised7 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:27 pm

cookiejar1 wrote:Hey all - I learned a bunch about Northwestern (and law schools in general) from TLS and so I guess it's my turn to pay it forward. If any of you have any questions ... I'd be happy to answer them. The less generic the question the better. I'm a 1L.


Does Northwestern REALLY excel at getting you and your classmates into summer positions/post-grad employment in one particular area of practice? Do they absolutely bomb in any one area of practice?

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Leo
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby Leo » Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:18 am

Attn: Other AJD admits. How are you dealing with the fact that the enrollment deadline will pass before you've gotten scholly offers from most other schools? Hard to turn down other schools without knowing what they're offering. Also hard to negotiate with NU without all your bargaining chips.

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mirroroferised7
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby mirroroferised7 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:28 am

1) Soooo... Northwestern took in more donations than any other reporting Illinois school... Is any of that coming our way?
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/ ... -donations

2)
Leo wrote:Attn: Other AJD admits. How are you dealing with the fact that the enrollment deadline will pass before you've gotten scholly offers from most other schools? Hard to turn down other schools without knowing what they're offering. Also hard to negotiate with NU without all your bargaining chips.


I've set a personal threshold for what I feel would be sufficient to keep me in Chicago and persuade me to go to NU. This number takes into account the fact that AJD tuition is about $10,000 higher per semester (for all six semesters) than regular JD tuition. Of the five to six schools I would seriously consider, I've only actually gotten into half of them at this point, and I have a scholarship from one of those schools that MIGHT work as leverage. But to be honest, I've done some number crunching, comparing opportunity cost, cost of living, and employment prospects, and NU is going to have to jump pretty high to garner my tuition.

kcdc1
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby kcdc1 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:30 am

Leo wrote:Attn: Other AJD admits. How are you dealing with the fact that the enrollment deadline will pass before you've gotten scholly offers from most other schools? Hard to turn down other schools without knowing what they're offering. Also hard to negotiate with NU without all your bargaining chips.

Here are some not-entirely-connected thoughts.

-There seems to be no action to take until March. We know NU won't be making $$ determinations until March and bothering other schools so early does not seem wise.

-The window between when NU releases offers and when they require seat deposits is short. Other schools may not even have decided on their offers.

-Making a seat deposit does not necessarily remove your negotiation leverage with NU. If, for example, Duke offers you a $60,000 scholarship, having sunk $750 into a seat deposit is not going to be a major consideration.

-Looking at scholarship data on LSN, it seems like scholarships are concentrated in the very top students (of course) and students that made their final decisions very late (rode waitlists into the summer, etc). This squares with the notion that schools deplete their scholarship funds early and then get those dollars back late in the game when the students that were initially offered go elsewhere. AJD removes the summer window for scholarship consideration. Make of that what you will.

-If NU cares about medians for the AJD program in isolation, AJD's with good numbers might actually have a bit of extra leverage because the program is so small. In a pool of 30, it only takes a few students to move the medians pretty significantly.

-NU claims that they do not care to "negotiate" scholarships. Make of that what you will.

I've set a personal threshold for what I feel would be sufficient to keep me in Chicago and persuade me to go to NU. This number takes into account the fact that AJD tuition is about $10,000 higher per semester (for all six semesters) than regular JD tuition.


AJD has 5 semesters while regular JD has 6 semesters. Both total about $164,300 this year. We can expect that to go up every year. As a VA resident, UVA would be about $20,000 cheaper in tuition. But AJD has the huge advantage of an extra year of income. For some law graduates, that year of income is roughly equal in dollar value to a full scholarship.

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paglababa
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby paglababa » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:43 am

I can't believe the AJD fin/merit aid app is due this weekend. i need to submit all my other fin apps asap too because as someone mentioned out here, it's going to be hard to make a decision without comparing money offers!

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mirroroferised7
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby mirroroferised7 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:14 pm

kcdc1 wrote:
Leo wrote:Attn: Other AJD admits. How are you dealing with the fact that the enrollment deadline will pass before you've gotten scholly offers from most other schools? Hard to turn down other schools without knowing what they're offering. Also hard to negotiate with NU without all your bargaining chips.

Here are some not-entirely-connected thoughts.

-There seems to be no action to take until March. We know NU won't be making $$ determinations until March and bothering other schools so early does not seem wise.

-The window between when NU releases offers and when they require seat deposits is short. Other schools may not even have decided on their offers.

-Making a seat deposit does not necessarily remove your negotiation leverage with NU. If, for example, Duke offers you a $60,000 scholarship, having sunk $750 into a seat deposit is not going to be a major consideration.

-Looking at scholarship data on LSN, it seems like scholarships are concentrated in the very top students (of course) and students that made their final decisions very late (rode waitlists into the summer, etc). This squares with the notion that schools deplete their scholarship funds early and then get those dollars back late in the game when the students that were initially offered go elsewhere. AJD removes the summer window for scholarship consideration. Make of that what you will.

-If NU cares about medians for the AJD program in isolation, AJD's with good numbers might actually have a bit of extra leverage because the program is so small. In a pool of 30, it only takes a few students to move the medians pretty significantly.

-NU claims that they do not care to "negotiate" scholarships. Make of that what you will.

I've set a personal threshold for what I feel would be sufficient to keep me in Chicago and persuade me to go to NU. This number takes into account the fact that AJD tuition is about $10,000 higher per semester (for all six semesters) than regular JD tuition.


AJD has 5 semesters while regular JD has 6 semesters. Both total about $164,300 this year. We can expect that to go up every year. As a VA resident, UVA would be about $20,000 cheaper in tuition. But AJD has the huge advantage of an extra year of income. For some law graduates, that year of income is roughly equal in dollar value to a full scholarship.



You're right, I did miscalculate... It's 5 semesters. I have to admit, I don't feel optimistic about my scholarship offer, because, based on TLS's gorgeous spreadsheets, it looks like my LSAT is at the bottom of the admitted student pool for AJD.

Top that with the fact that negotiations do end in May... yeah. I'm sticking with my original scholarship threshold.

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paglababa
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby paglababa » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:45 pm

Can someone link to the AJD stats spreadsheet? That extra year of biglaw income + having a sweet scholly for LS def sounds appealing.

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Leo
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby Leo » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:48 pm

paglababa wrote:Can someone link to the AJD stats spreadsheet? That extra year of biglaw income + having a sweet scholly for LS def sounds appealing.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApY5-vMg69a-dHZLX2U4OUdwOHhxZ0FlVnF4LUdSanc&usp=sharing

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paglababa
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby paglababa » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:52 pm

Leo wrote:
paglababa wrote:Can someone link to the AJD stats spreadsheet? That extra year of biglaw income + having a sweet scholly for LS def sounds appealing.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApY5-vMg69a-dHZLX2U4OUdwOHhxZ0FlVnF4LUdSanc&usp=sharing


Thanks mate :D
Ooh I hope TLS is representative of the AJD class, or better off!

whereskyle
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby whereskyle » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:25 pm

Anyone else planning to attend this Dean and Alumnae/i dinner in SF?

dempsey6
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby dempsey6 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:45 pm

midwest17 wrote:Anyone have advice on how to write the "evaluate your standing for merit aid" question in a way that doesn't come off as self-aggrandizing?


Having the same problem. Really feels like an awkward response.

Come on Down
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby Come on Down » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:26 pm

Do folks think it's appropriate to tell NU about money other schools have offered when you fill out the scholarship application?

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paglababa
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby paglababa » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:36 pm

Come on Down wrote:Do folks think it's appropriate to tell NU about money other schools have offered when you fill out the scholarship application?


What about people who haven't heard back yet from other schools merit offers? I mean the NU AJD program says the deadline is 2/15 to submit forms for aid. Do I just tell NU what other t14s I got into?

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pompoms
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby pompoms » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:55 pm

paglababa wrote:
Come on Down wrote:Do folks think it's appropriate to tell NU about money other schools have offered when you fill out the scholarship application?


What about people who haven't heard back yet from other schools merit offers? I mean the NU AJD program says the deadline is 2/15 to submit forms for aid. Do I just tell NU what other t14s I got into?


Aren't you AJD pagla? Where would you write this?

YouGoGlenCoCo
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby YouGoGlenCoCo » Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:57 pm

Come on Down wrote:Do folks think it's appropriate to tell NU about money other schools have offered when you fill out the scholarship application?


I did not include this on mine for several reasons (although I did think about it for quite some time). First, this essay is supposed to be an opportunity to explain what it is about myself that justifies receiving scholarships. If I were to have said, "I got into X law school and they offered me Y amount of scholarships," this isn't as powerful as saying what it is about myself that justified receiving that scholarship. Why did I get that scholarship? Because I'm awesome! Therefore I ought to be telling them how I'm awesome (assuming this is true which is debatable).

Also, I think a well crafted essay ought to demonstrate that whatever I received elsewhere is actually not enough! I want Northwestern to see me in a better light than any other school has so far. Imagine if someone included the best scholarship offer she got at another school. She very well might be unintentionally providing a glass ceiling for herself. Who knows, NW might have been thinking "wow this cat is awesome, lets give her 30k a year..oh wait she was only offered 20k from UCLA, that's obviously her best offer so far so lets just match it." Moreover, including other scholarship offers minimizes her opportunity to use this argument later in the process. I would say wait for them to offer you something, then if you aren't happy with the amount come back with other propositions. Imagine if the person in my example who received 20k/yr from UCLA gets an offer from Duke next week for 30k/yr. She might look rather awkward going back to NW multiple times saying "oh wait, give me just a little more."

I dunno if anyone agrees with this mindset, maybe I'm way off.

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lawschool22
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby lawschool22 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:25 pm

Richard.Thaddaeus wrote:
Come on Down wrote:Do folks think it's appropriate to tell NU about money other schools have offered when you fill out the scholarship application?


I did not include this on mine for several reasons (although I did think about it for quite some time). First, this essay is supposed to be an opportunity to explain what it is about myself that justifies receiving scholarships. If I were to have said, "I got into X law school and they offered me Y amount of scholarships," this isn't as powerful as saying what it is about myself that justified receiving that scholarship. Why did I get that scholarship? Because I'm awesome! Therefore I ought to be telling them how I'm awesome (assuming this is true which is debatable).

Also, I think a well crafted essay ought to demonstrate that whatever I received elsewhere is actually not enough! I want Northwestern to see me in a better light than any other school has so far. Imagine if someone included the best scholarship offer she got at another school. She very well might be unintentionally providing a glass ceiling for herself. Who knows, NW might have been thinking "wow this cat is awesome, lets give her 30k a year..oh wait she was only offered 20k from UCLA, that's obviously her best offer so far so lets just match it." Moreover, including other scholarship offers minimizes her opportunity to use this argument later in the process. I would say wait for them to offer you something, then if you aren't happy with the amount come back with other propositions. Imagine if the person in my example who received 20k/yr from UCLA gets an offer from Duke next week for 30k/yr. She might look rather awkward going back to NW multiple times saying "oh wait, give me just a little more."

I dunno if anyone agrees with this mindset, maybe I'm way off.


Yep. I've been giving this advice, more or less, in a lot of threads. The basic premise is negotiating 101. Always get the other person to make the first offer.

Come on Down
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby Come on Down » Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:29 pm

lawschool22 wrote:
Richard.Thaddaeus wrote:
Come on Down wrote:Do folks think it's appropriate to tell NU about money other schools have offered when you fill out the scholarship application?


I did not include this on mine for several reasons (although I did think about it for quite some time). First, this essay is supposed to be an opportunity to explain what it is about myself that justifies receiving scholarships. If I were to have said, "I got into X law school and they offered me Y amount of scholarships," this isn't as powerful as saying what it is about myself that justified receiving that scholarship. Why did I get that scholarship? Because I'm awesome! Therefore I ought to be telling them how I'm awesome (assuming this is true which is debatable).

Also, I think a well crafted essay ought to demonstrate that whatever I received elsewhere is actually not enough! I want Northwestern to see me in a better light than any other school has so far. Imagine if someone included the best scholarship offer she got at another school. She very well might be unintentionally providing a glass ceiling for herself. Who knows, NW might have been thinking "wow this cat is awesome, lets give her 30k a year..oh wait she was only offered 20k from UCLA, that's obviously her best offer so far so lets just match it." Moreover, including other scholarship offers minimizes her opportunity to use this argument later in the process. I would say wait for them to offer you something, then if you aren't happy with the amount come back with other propositions. Imagine if the person in my example who received 20k/yr from UCLA gets an offer from Duke next week for 30k/yr. She might look rather awkward going back to NW multiple times saying "oh wait, give me just a little more."

I dunno if anyone agrees with this mindset, maybe I'm way off.


Yep. I've been giving this advice, more or less, in a lot of threads. The basic premise is negotiating 101. Always get the other person to make the first offer.


Thanks for the advice

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hiphopopotamuss
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby hiphopopotamuss » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:08 am

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Last edited by hiphopopotamuss on Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kcdc1
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby kcdc1 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:41 am

No idea, but you can check out LSN for scholly amounts similar to your numbers. http://northwestern.lawschoolnumbers.co ... cants/1213

RGSM1987 gives me hope. 174/2.92 with a $125k scholarship. Might be incorrect data tho--she made a deposit at G'town with only a $10k scholly. Would someone really do that?
Last edited by kcdc1 on Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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paglababa
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby paglababa » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:43 am

pompoms wrote:
paglababa wrote:
Come on Down wrote:Do folks think it's appropriate to tell NU about money other schools have offered when you fill out the scholarship application?


What about people who haven't heard back yet from other schools merit offers? I mean the NU AJD program says the deadline is 2/15 to submit forms for aid. Do I just tell NU what other t14s I got into?


Aren't you AJD pagla? Where would you write this?


Oh oops, hadn't taken a look at the AJD requirements. Assumed the scholly essays were for us too. Whew.

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Ricky-Bobby
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Re: Northwestern Class of 2017

Postby Ricky-Bobby » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:45 am

kcdc1 wrote:No idea, but you can check out LSN for scholly amounts similar to your numbers. http://northwestern.lawschoolnumbers.co ... cants/1213

RGSM1987 gives me hope. 174/2.92 with a $125k scholarship. Might be incorrect data tho--he made a deposit at G'town with only a $10k scholly. Would someone really do that?


She put the deposit in at GULC, but is attending Penn on $45k. I think the GULC scholly info might be missing a 0, though.




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