Columbia Class of 2017 Forum

[loveduck]

I am still waiting for my financial aid package. I was accepted in January and applied for fin aid prior to the deadline. I called on Thursday and they said my application was in the final stages of review they'd hope to get it to me in the next few days. I am starting to get really antsy.

[mylifeis24]

so.....

who is still waiting for financial aid, and when were you accepted? I heard back at the end of January.

I'm getting worried being among the last to hear re: money did not end well for some of my friends at other schools.

NYU and I had this dynamic

[Cucumber]

.

[EquallyWrong]

Also still waiting for financial aid...was admitted in the first wave. Had all my stuff in well before the March 1 deadline. When I called a couple weeks back they said I should have it by this past Wednesday. Seeing that I never got it I want to call again, but I don't want to bug them (and in the back of my mind I feel like this could result in them just saying f it and giving me no aid..though that is prob just me being super neurotic).

Maybe they hold finaid applications too if you happen to be on the cusp. I don't know, the whole quasi-merit need based aid system they run seems all over the place. As someone who was admitted post finaid deadline, I hope you first wavers don't suck up all the resources...and that plenty of people turned down their hamiltons for the sake of Harvard/Yale branding or Ruby stipends. Like most delays, they're probably waiting on more information to stream in regarding withdraws, apps they haven't yet reviewed, and other allocations before they commit dollars to you. Hopefully it won't force a double deposit. Bugging them because you have deadlines/competing offers is a legitimate tactic. On the plus side, it means you aren't an automatic no-aid.

Has anyone who missed the deadline gotten a decision back? It seems like that would be a significant data point.

[mt2165]

Also still waiting for financial aid...was admitted in the first wave. Had all my stuff in well before the March 1 deadline. When I called a couple weeks back they said I should have it by this past Wednesday. Seeing that I never got it I want to call again, but I don't want to bug them (and in the back of my mind I feel like this could result in them just saying f it and giving me no aid..though that is prob just me being super neurotic).

Maybe they hold finaid applications too if you happen to be on the cusp. I don't know, the whole quasi-merit need based aid system they run seems all over the place. As someone who was admitted post finaid deadline, I hope you first wavers don't suck up all the resources...and that plenty of people turned down their hamiltons for the sake of Harvard/Yale branding or Ruby stipends. Like most delays, they're probably waiting on more information to stream in regarding withdraws, apps they haven't yet reviewed, and other allocations before they commit dollars to you. Hopefully it won't force a double deposit. Bugging them because you have deadlines/competing offers is a legitimate tactic. On the plus side, it means you aren't an automatic no-aid.

Has anyone who missed the deadline gotten a decision back? It seems like that would be a significant data point.

Yeah I was a late February admit, was a little lackadaisical with the financial aid, probably submitted all the paperwork by mid/late-ish march and received a decision like a week ago. Not sure how that's at all possible.

[Kimikho]

I submitted my fafsa and that form by the march deadline, but I didn't know CLS wanted our taxes to be all squared away by then too (I think?). Regardless, they emailed me for the actual tax returns like a month later and I'm worried that's what pushed me to the back.

People who are still waiting--are you all people who generally wouldn't receive need-based grants?

[mt2165]

If this isn't too personal, do you guys have a debt ceiling you're not willing to breach on behalf of CLS? PM if it's more comfortable. Pretty much my whole decision comes down to establishing such a ceiling.

[Cucumber]

I submitted my fafsa and that form by the march deadline, but I didn't know CLS wanted our taxes to be all squared away by then too (I think?). Regardless, they emailed me for the actual tax returns like a month later and I'm worried that's what pushed me to the back.

People who are still waiting--are you all people who generally wouldn't receive need-based grants?

Not me, quite the opposite -- would definitely expect a need-based grant. But I did have a missing document as well in March, so maybe people in those sort of situations do get pushed to the back.

[Kimikho]

I submitted my fafsa and that form by the march deadline, but I didn't know CLS wanted our taxes to be all squared away by then too (I think?). Regardless, they emailed me for the actual tax returns like a month later and I'm worried that's what pushed me to the back.

People who are still waiting--are you all people who generally wouldn't receive need-based grants?

Not me, quite the opposite -- would definitely expect a need-based grant. But I did have a missing document as well in March, so maybe people in those sort of situations do get pushed to the back.

I didn't realize everything had to be up to date when we submitted that. I hadn't even finished my taxes yet

[gta]

Not good to see y'all waiting on financial aid when I just submitted my documents yesterday. Wonder how long I will be...

[EquallyWrong]

I submitted 2012 forms asking for an initial estimate and said I would then provide final 2013 data if anything is awarded...so I'll see if that satisfies them. Gathering everything was a major ordeal. As far as establishing a so called "debt ceiling," I'm basing this on a whole sweep of considerations. The first is the opportunity to go somewhere else for cheaper. Many people seem to assume that the lower ranked schools just give full rides out like Halloween candy to people with 175+ LSATs and a respectable GPA, but I didn't get any.... The next is my current earning potential/job prospects without a law degree, which are pretty shitty and have been since graduating undergrad, but such is life outside STEM or the Ivy League...not to say that opportunities don't materialize for people without extravagant law degrees. Then there is your family situation/whether you have dependents, older or younger with school bills or medical bills and current debt obligations. Finally, you kind of need to gauge whether or not you're likely to be successful in law school and how the T14 career track looks to you...which is difficult and I suspect many people guess wrong. Taking on lots of debt means, I think, needing to go the BigLaw route in order to pay it off in your natural lifespan...so looking into whether you think you could keep that lifestyle up for over three or five years is important (spoiler alert: it won't be a barrel of laughs). 300k seems like the rounded up/down worst case sticker figure...minus 25-50k for summer associateships. It's not a happy number, but whether or not it is acceptable is totally contingent on your current situation and alternatives (obviously, in the best of all possible worlds we would all be paying much less...but this isn't a helpful analysis). TLS seems to have shifted over to only suckers pay sticker...and since the real winners of the cycle are up front along with the freshly minted junior associates that rue the day they signed their life over to student loans, it is easy to feel this way...maybe it is just venting, maybe they are legitimate prophets of doom. As far as I can see, it will certainly dictate your post-grad lifestyle and adding it to an already unstable or forgoing an already promising financial situation is a mistake...especially if you wind up sucking at/hating law school or the law school career track, which seems like the real gamble people are making. What really keeps me committed to even the sticker price is my deep aversion to spending another year underemployed, the upsides of which, such as free time, I have pretty much drained for all they are worth. That, and I know my particular temperament...it sounds like even the negatives people discuss may be in my wheelhouse. I'd also adopt the official line of K-JDs beware. A few years of being underemployed is fine and rewarding up until it isn't (see, when you approach mid twenties with thirty in sight), but you eventually learn more about what you want to do and what you definitely don't want to do. At least it is a guaranteed three years and out with a clear timeframe and dollar amount attached to help you decide. This is my complete reasoning, more or less, so if there is anything idiotic in there I'd be happy to hear it...outside of "bro, you don't know how terrible it really is until you're working 80 hours a week with 200k hanging over you!" Well, what do you want me to do? Take it on your anonymous, self selected say so?
Finis Operis

[Theopliske8711]

Dude, you really need to use paragraph form. And if you are going to make a post that long, you also need to provide a tl;dr.

[jbagelboy]

I submitted 2012 forms asking for an initial estimate and said I would then provide final 2013 data if anything is awarded...so I'll see if that satisfies them. Gathering everything was a major ordeal. As far as establishing a so called "debt ceiling," I'm basing this on a whole sweep of considerations. The first is the opportunity to go somewhere else for cheaper. Many people seem to assume that the lower ranked schools just give full rides out like Halloween candy to people with 175+ LSATs and a respectable GPA, but I didn't get any.... The next is my current earning potential/job prospects without a law degree, which are pretty shitty and have been since graduating undergrad, but such is life outside STEM or the Ivy League...not to say that opportunities don't materialize for people without extravagant law degrees. Then there is your family situation/whether you have dependents, older or younger with school bills or medical bills and current debt obligations. Finally, you kind of need to gauge whether or not you're likely to be successful in law school and how the T14 career track looks to you...which is difficult and I suspect many people guess wrong. Taking on lots of debt means, I think, needing to go the BigLaw route in order to pay it off in your natural lifespan...so looking into whether you think you could keep that lifestyle up for over three or five years is important (spoiler alert: it won't be a barrel of laughs). 300k seems like the rounded up/down worst case sticker figure...minus 25-50k for summer associateships. It's not a happy number, but whether or not it is acceptable is totally contingent on your current situation and alternatives (obviously, in the best of all possible worlds we would all be paying much less...but this isn't a helpful analysis). TLS seems to have shifted over to only suckers pay sticker...and since the real winners of the cycle are up front along with the freshly minted junior associates that rue the day they signed their life over to student loans, it is easy to feel this way...maybe it is just venting, maybe they are legitimate prophets of doom. As far as I can see, it will certainly dictate your post-grad lifestyle and adding it to an already unstable or forgoing an already promising financial situation is a mistake...especially if you wind up sucking at/hating law school or the law school career track, which seems like the real gamble people are making. What really keeps me committed to even the sticker price is my deep aversion to spending another year underemployed, the upsides of which, such as free time, I have pretty much drained for all they are worth. That, and I know my particular temperament...it sounds like even the negatives people discuss may be in my wheelhouse. I'd also adopt the official line of K-JDs beware. A few years of being underemployed is fine and rewarding up until it isn't (see, when you approach mid twenties with thirty in sight), but you eventually learn more about what you want to do and what you definitely don't want to do. At least it is a guaranteed three years and out with a clear timeframe and dollar amount attached to help you decide. This is my complete reasoning, more or less, so if there is anything idiotic in there I'd be happy to hear it...outside of "bro, you don't know how terrible it really is until you're working 80 hours a week with 200k hanging over you!" Well, what do you want me to do? Take it on your anonymous, self selected say so?
Finis Operis

tl;dr seems to be, I'm probably going to take sticker or near sticker because I don't have any other really stellar options and I'm tired of practicing attorneys and students on tls saying sticker is bad because my current situation seems worse and you won't understand no matter what.

To be fair, while you're not really grappling with what that amount of debt means and what repayment actually entails, sticker at CLS won't ruin you financially and if you are determined to make it in big law and okay with your life sucking for a while I personally maintain that it'll lead to better lifetime earnings and career trajectory than just not going if the alternative is being unemployed. If you have a decent job or you're k-jd and you just haven't explored the other options, then definitely don't take sticker debt. and if you have another law school alternative that presents substantially less debt for only somewhat worse prospects (like a full ride at Cornell), take that.

[EquallyWrong]

Dude, you really need to use paragraph form. And if you are going to make a post that long, you also need to provide a tl;dr.

Sorry...I suppose.
tl;dr: going qualitative rather than quantitative to figure out debt, don't feel like waiting around a year for a better outcome at some other place. too difficult to give weight to abstract numbers beyond committing to a specific career track with harshly limited monthly budgets for the first few years, so without any big responsibilities or alluring prospects I don't rule it out and see no reason for hysteria.

[cotiger]

tl;dr: going qualitative rather than quantitative to figure out debt.

too difficult to give weight to abstract numbers.

lol what

If you want to take out 300k to go to cls, then ok I guess.

But you might do yourself a favor and think about it a little but more in depth before pulling the trigger.

[Theopliske8711]

When you say you didn't get any full rides at lower t14s, do you mean that you tried a couple of rounds of negotiations? When did you send in your apps?

There are a lot of ways of getting more info. Email some associates at firms and ask them what their life is like. Ask some people here with debt and ask them about their life. Debt is real, and learn to think of it as such.

[EquallyWrong]

tl;dr: going qualitative rather than quantitative to figure out debt.

too difficult to give weight to abstract numbers.

lol what

If you want to take out 300k to go to cls, then ok I guess.

But you might do yourself a favor and think about it a little but more in depth before pulling the trigger.

that may have been a stupid statement, I was trying to do a pithy tl;dr. the one before mine was better. I've talked to practicing attorneys who worked in BigLaw and tried to determine if this is likely the career for me, all that, and have not been going about it uncritically. It is disappointing that sticker price or wait another year may be the only options. obviously, I can't claim to have a great point of reference on these numbers apart from living off a particular budgeted amount for however long the numbers dictate you need to according to the costs of living wherever you end up practicing...even then it is not so simple when taken with job stress (another thing there is no great point of reference for before you're in the thick of it). This is what I meant, though it was miscommunicated. clearly, I did a little too much afternoon musing...I don't think I'm taking it super lightly, at least not in a way that more Scared Straight talk would fix, but I admit I might have not said anything remotely helpful to anyone while trying to work through the caveats. if there is a better method here I'm definitely open to the suggestion...

ETA: yeah, editing my post down like that really makes me look like a totally grasp-less 0L in desperate need of a reality check...

[waferthinmint]

so does Columbia factor in need more than other schools (minus HYS)?

cause I was a little surprised by my offer.

IKR? I was admitted by the skin of my teeth and they just gave me a pretty decent grant.

I believe evidence points to them giving more for need-based than most other (non-HYS) schools.

Woohoo! I like this.

[waferthinmint]

I'd love to get in a situation like some ITT where I hear back from CLS with great aid so I can just skip over negotiations and put a ring on it! Only time will tell.

Some thoughts on my personal debt ceiling -- I won't give a figure here, but I will say this: I previously worked 80-hour weeks as a teacher, hated what I was doing, and easily got paid less than minimum wage if you broke out my salary by hours. I currently work at a litigation firm, like it a lot, and would much rather get paid a lawyer's salary to work 80-hour weeks doing something that is a great fit for me and that I find worthwhile over getting paid a pittance to do a thankless job I was sucky at and dreaded every single day, or even over some other path where maybe I'd be getting paid decently to do something I'm good enough at but find unimportant or uninteresting. So my debt ceiling for CLS, because it has great job numbers and great placement for the kind of work I want, could be relatively high. But not sticker.

[FuriousDuck]

...

[EquallyWrong]

Also, lol at the thought of EquallyWrong not thinking something through in enough depth.

I dunno...maybe I just never considered debt as a real thing. dur dur dur.

I hate everyone. long live paragraphs. fight the real enemy.

[a.sleepyhead]

I hate everyone. long live paragraphs. fight the real enemy.

Your 'tar is making me imagine Kafka is writing all your posts, which adds to the comedic effect

[waferthinmint]

Nvm figured it out - baleeted

[Kimikho]

Okay columbia I really want to deposit now please hurry up

[Hitchensian]

Okay columbia I really want to deposit now please hurry up

+1

There will be much hair-pulling on my part this week with every 5pm EST that rolls around without a finan aid email.