Harvard Class of 2017

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2017)

State your section!

Section 1
6
8%
Section 2
12
16%
Section 3
8
11%
Section 4
7
10%
Section 5
19
26%
Section 6
8
11%
Section 7
13
18%
 
Total votes: 73

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nothingtosee
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby nothingtosee » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:28 pm

Thought I had housing. Things changed.

If anyone's looking to live with a guy, shoot me a pm. Willing to live anywhere that's <$1000 per month.

:)

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Pneumonia
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby Pneumonia » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:04 pm

It has been a slow day at work so I thought I would answer a question that I asked previously in this thread, for “any law-related book recommendations?” Before continuing I should mention that the various threads on “0L summer prep” had me pretty firmly convinced from the outset that so called “substantive” prep is at best useless and at worst harmful, so I didn’t go that route.

Nonetheless I wanted to be doing something with my brain this summer, so the approach I took was to read books that I thought might help get me into the law-school frame of mind. From what I’ve been told there is a certain culture shock that accompanies the first month/semester/year of 1L that is distinct from the equally unavoidable information shock. So using that distinction as a frame of reference you could say that my aim was to read things that would help me prepare some for integrating into the mindset of law and law school. I read a few general books and a few books that were specific to Harvard:

General

Law School Confidential- I quit reading this about halfway through. It has a section on LSAT prep in which the authors recommend Princeton Review as an option superior to self-study so I was skeptical of the rest of the advice. There is some good information though, but I had picked up almost all of it from TLS. Recommended for anyone who doesn’t know what things like Law Review, case-briefing, and clerkships are.

The Bramble Bush (Llewellyn)- Amazon and the Boomer Lawyers I know were alike in that both relentlessly recommended this book. It is a series of lectures given by Karl Llewellyn at Columbia in the 1930’s, and although it purports to be an exhortation to new students it ends up being primarily an introduction to and defense of Legal Realism. It was a still a good read and Llewellyn’s language is pretty bright. He has some good practical observations about integration into law school and about the case system, but some of them are outdated and all of them are at least a little bit buried; the book is definitely more interesting than it is practical. Recommended for would-be legal academics.

Thinking Like a Lawyer (Schauer)- I found this book to be highly engaging. Despite the title this book is not an exercise in analytical methods or logic or anything like that. It is an introduction to various legal concepts and the philosophy behind them. These include things like precedent, rules, facts, standards, and the burden of proof. Schauer says in the preface that one of his goals is to present in one place concepts that are in the background of all legal classes but in the foreground of none. His analysis of the issues is both simple and sophisticated, and he cites lots of sources including, frequently, himself. Recommended for those interested in legal reasoning.

The Legal Analyst (Farnsworth)- A title more representative of this book’s contents would be “Intro to Law and Economics: the right decision isn’t always the best one.” Farnsworth (now the dean at UT) is clear that he is a fan of the law and economics school, but is also right to point out that economic analysis of the law should also be considered by those who don’t believe it is determinative. Those who are familiar with game theory and behavioral economics could skip straight to the chapters on Jurisprudence and Proof, but for those of us who aren’t the various hypotheticals posed in the other chapters are perhaps worth reading. He doesn’t present issues as simple as the difference between correlation/causation, but the concepts are equally worth understanding: margins, efficiency, incentives, prisoner’s dilemmas, agency, public goods, slippery slopes, along with various kinds of biases. Recommended for those interested in law and economics.

LearnLeo- not a book but still engaging and hopefully useful. Some of the introductory stuff is pretty elementary, but overall I think the site is a good tool and it is on that I’ll probably use (it’s free). https://learnleo.com/


Books that are specific to Harvard Law School:

The High Citadel: The Influence of Harvard Law School (Seligman)- This was written close to 50 years ago and is interesting because it makes many of the same critiques of law school that are heard today. Seligman’s thesis is twofold: law school is getting worse, and Harvard is leading the way. The first part of the title refers to the what he sees as the increasing ivory-towerization of law schools and of Harvard in particular. He points to the increase in theory and the corresponding decrease in practical training as a major example, and further argues that the main reason Harvard funnels so many people into corporate jobs is that they aren’t qualified for anything else. The second part of the title is meant to indicate that Harvard, as the nation’s leading law school, is influencing other schools in the same direction and that this is a bad thing.,

Some of Seligman’s points are ill-grounded and occasionally ridiculous, but it is an interesting read if for no other reason that some of its criticism’s are still being repeated today.

The Inception of Modern Professional Education- C.C. Langdell (Kimball)- Langdell was the inventor of the case system, and Dean at Harvard for 30 something years beginning in the 1870’s, and this book is a biography of his life. I basically skimmed the portions about his early life, but was thoroughly engaged with the bulk of it which is about his time at Harvard. It is a fascinating look into the law school and its students, and I actually found it to be unexpectedly motivational and inspiring as an incoming student.

Kimball is currently working on the 200-year history of Harvard Law School, due out in 2017 around the time that we will graduate. If his new work is half as engaging as this one it will still be easily worth reading.

The Law at Harvard: A History of Ideas and Men (Sutherland)- This book was published in 1967 on the 150th anniversary of the law school and it is a history of the school up until that point. It begins in the early 1800’s and follows the school through the lens of the various deanships: Story, Langdell, Pound, Griswold and the others. If nothing else this book will make you aware of who all of the various buildings on campus are named for. It also shares some excerpts from student diaries and campus publications that are 100+ years old and again I was amazed at how similar many of them sounded to things that you read or hear today.

Sutherland taught at Harvard for several decades and his descriptions are fascinating; I thoroughly enjoyed this book and the context that it provides.

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TheMostDangerousLG
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby TheMostDangerousLG » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:25 pm

Pneumonia wrote:It has been a slow day at work so I thought I would answer a question that I asked previously in this thread, for “any law-related book recommendations?” Before continuing I should mention that the various threads on “0L summer prep” had me pretty firmly convinced from the outset that so called “substantive” prep is at best useless and at worst harmful, so I didn’t go that route.

Nonetheless I wanted to be doing something with my brain this summer, so the approach I took was to read books that I thought might help get me into the law-school frame of mind. From what I’ve been told there is a certain culture shock that accompanies the first month/semester/year of 1L that is distinct from the equally unavoidable information shock. So using that distinction as a frame of reference you could say that my aim was to read things that would help me prepare some for integrating into the mindset of law and law school. I read a few general books and a few books that were specific to Harvard:

General

Law School Confidential- I quit reading this about halfway through. It has a section on LSAT prep in which the authors recommend Princeton Review as an option superior to self-study so I was skeptical of the rest of the advice. There is some good information though, but I had picked up almost all of it from TLS. Recommended for anyone who doesn’t know what things like Law Review, case-briefing, and clerkships are.

The Bramble Bush (Llewellyn)- Amazon and the Boomer Lawyers I know were alike in that both relentlessly recommended this book. It is a series of lectures given by Karl Llewellyn at Columbia in the 1930’s, and although it purports to be an exhortation to new students it ends up being primarily an introduction to and defense of Legal Realism. It was a still a good read and Llewellyn’s language is pretty bright. He has some good practical observations about integration into law school and about the case system, but some of them are outdated and all of them are at least a little bit buried; the book is definitely more interesting than it is practical. Recommended for would-be legal academics.

Thinking Like a Lawyer (Schauer)- I found this book to be highly engaging. Despite the title this book is not an exercise in analytical methods or logic or anything like that. It is an introduction to various legal concepts and the philosophy behind them. These include things like precedent, rules, facts, standards, and the burden of proof. Schauer says in the preface that one of his goals is to present in one place concepts that are in the background of all legal classes but in the foreground of none. His analysis of the issues is both simple and sophisticated, and he cites lots of sources including, frequently, himself. Recommended for those interested in legal reasoning.

The Legal Analyst (Farnsworth)- A title more representative of this book’s contents would be “Intro to Law and Economics: the right decision isn’t always the best one.” Farnsworth (now the dean at UT) is clear that he is a fan of the law and economics school, but is also right to point out that economic analysis of the law should also be considered by those who don’t believe it is determinative. Those who are familiar with game theory and behavioral economics could skip straight to the chapters on Jurisprudence and Proof, but for those of us who aren’t the various hypotheticals posed in the other chapters are perhaps worth reading. He doesn’t present issues as simple as the difference between correlation/causation, but the concepts are equally worth understanding: margins, efficiency, incentives, prisoner’s dilemmas, agency, public goods, slippery slopes, along with various kinds of biases. Recommended for those interested in law and economics.

LearnLeo- not a book but still engaging and hopefully useful. Some of the introductory stuff is pretty elementary, but overall I think the site is a good tool and it is on that I’ll probably use (it’s free). https://learnleo.com/


Books that are specific to Harvard Law School:

The High Citadel: The Influence of Harvard Law School (Seligman)- This was written close to 50 years ago and is interesting because it makes many of the same critiques of law school that are heard today. Seligman’s thesis is twofold: law school is getting worse, and Harvard is leading the way. The first part of the title refers to the what he sees as the increasing ivory-towerization of law schools and of Harvard in particular. He points to the increase in theory and the corresponding decrease in practical training as a major example, and further argues that the main reason Harvard funnels so many people into corporate jobs is that they aren’t qualified for anything else. The second part of the title is meant to indicate that Harvard, as the nation’s leading law school, is influencing other schools in the same direction and that this is a bad thing.,

Some of Seligman’s points are ill-grounded and occasionally ridiculous, but it is an interesting read if for no other reason that some of its criticism’s are still being repeated today.

The Inception of Modern Professional Education- C.C. Langdell (Kimball)- Langdell was the inventor of the case system, and Dean at Harvard for 30 something years beginning in the 1870’s, and this book is a biography of his life. I basically skimmed the portions about his early life, but was thoroughly engaged with the bulk of it which is about his time at Harvard. It is a fascinating look into the law school and its students, and I actually found it to be unexpectedly motivational and inspiring as an incoming student.

Kimball is currently working on the 200-year history of Harvard Law School, due out in 2017 around the time that we will graduate. If his new work is half as engaging as this one it will still be easily worth reading.

The Law at Harvard: A History of Ideas and Men (Sutherland)- This book was published in 1967 on the 150th anniversary of the law school and it is a history of the school up until that point. It begins in the early 1800’s and follows the school through the lens of the various deanships: Story, Langdell, Pound, Griswold and the others. If nothing else this book will make you aware of who all of the various buildings on campus are named for. It also shares some excerpts from student diaries and campus publications that are 100+ years old and again I was amazed at how similar many of them sounded to things that you read or hear today.

Sutherland taught at Harvard for several decades and his descriptions are fascinating; I thoroughly enjoyed this book and the context that it provides.


Holy crap, what a coincidence! My 0L prep was almost exactly the same, only I read none of those books and have just eaten cheese puffs and watched HBO Go all day for the last two weeks.

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wealtheow
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby wealtheow » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:04 pm

i have never wanted to take a picture less in my life

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Nonconsecutive
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby Nonconsecutive » Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:23 pm

For some reason TLS is loading really slowly on my old iPod touch. At the bookstore your section number corresponds to the letter right? So section 2 is B, 3 C, 4 D, etc. correct? I know someone mentioned this before but posts are showing up blank for me atm. :)

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codyoneill
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby codyoneill » Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:46 pm

Nonconsecutive wrote:For some reason TLS is loading really slowly on my old iPod touch. At the bookstore your section number corresponds to the letter right? So section 2 is B, 3 C, 4 D, etc. correct? I know someone mentioned this before but posts are showing up blank for me atm. :)


I think that is correct.

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Jatt
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby Jatt » Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:43 pm

FYI, the Coop updated the website so you can now select your course by professor (with the section number in parentheses). I ordered by books on Amazon yesterday based on the assumption that A = Section 1, B = Section 2, etc. Luckily, all of my books were the same when I checked again today so I don't need to go through the hassle of returning wrong books and ordering new ones.

Oh, and for those of you living in the dorms, you can ship your books directly there to your mailing address. I called the mail center yesterday to ask, since the website says they start accepting shipments only 10 days before August 25th's move-in day. The dude was super chill and said its close enough and they'll receive them from now on. Hooray for not having to lug heavy books from Texas to Cambridge!

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codyoneill
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby codyoneill » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:15 pm

yomisterd wrote:Section pics during orientation: fancy dress up or NAH


^^^ This question got lost in the shuffle.

What is the consensus for orientation clothing and section photos?

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HorseThief
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby HorseThief » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:16 pm

codyoneill wrote:
yomisterd wrote:Section pics during orientation: fancy dress up or NAH


^^^ This question got lost in the shuffle.

What is the consensus for orientation clothing and section photos?


I'll probably only break out the tshirt on the field day thing, but I certainly won't have a tie on for the rest of the week.

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OMAR_COMIN_YO
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby OMAR_COMIN_YO » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:17 pm

codyoneill wrote:
yomisterd wrote:Section pics during orientation: fancy dress up or NAH


^^^ This question got lost in the shuffle.

What is the consensus for orientation clothing and section photos?


Full tux and bowtie. That way we'll know who you are. :wink:
Last edited by OMAR_COMIN_YO on Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Pneumonia
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby Pneumonia » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:22 pm

HorseThief wrote: I'll probably only break out the tshirt on the field day thing, but I certainly won't have a tie on for the rest of the week.


Yeah this. Nothin wrong with looking nice, but a tie or suit is probably overkill

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby TripTrip » Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:00 pm

Oh goodness. If any 1Ls wear a suit we will ridicule you forever.

On second thought, forget I said that. Wear your 3 piece.

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malleus discentium
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby malleus discentium » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:35 pm

Jatt wrote:FYI, the Coop updated the website so you can now select your course by professor (with the section number in parentheses). I ordered by books on Amazon yesterday based on the assumption that A = Section 1, B = Section 2, etc. Luckily, all of my books were the same when I checked again today so I don't need to go through the hassle of returning wrong books and ordering new ones.

Oh, and for those of you living in the dorms, you can ship your books directly there to your mailing address. I called the mail center yesterday to ask, since the website says they start accepting shipments only 10 days before August 25th's move-in day. The dude was super chill and said its close enough and they'll receive them from now on. Hooray for not having to lug heavy books from Texas to Cambridge!

Packages have to be at least 15 lbs for them to take to your room, which is dumb.

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TripTrip
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby TripTrip » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:40 pm

malleus discentium wrote:
Jatt wrote:FYI, the Coop updated the website so you can now select your course by professor (with the section number in parentheses). I ordered by books on Amazon yesterday based on the assumption that A = Section 1, B = Section 2, etc. Luckily, all of my books were the same when I checked again today so I don't need to go through the hassle of returning wrong books and ordering new ones.

Oh, and for those of you living in the dorms, you can ship your books directly there to your mailing address. I called the mail center yesterday to ask, since the website says they start accepting shipments only 10 days before August 25th's move-in day. The dude was super chill and said its close enough and they'll receive them from now on. Hooray for not having to lug heavy books from Texas to Cambridge!

Packages have to be at least 15 lbs for them to take to your room, which is dumb.

The package weight rule is a misnomer. If they're already bringing a bunch of other stuff to your room, they'll probably grab those too to help clear out the mailroom.

happymonkey
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby happymonkey » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:33 pm

Are people buying or renting books for the most part? I was thinking of buying used if I can find them with minimal writing/highlighting.

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codyoneill
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby codyoneill » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:49 pm

happymonkey wrote:Are people buying or renting books for the most part? I was thinking of buying used if I can find them with minimal writing/highlighting.


I'm renting on Amazon. Just seems like the easiest option. I'm planning to use LearnLeo for all my case reading / highlighting, so I'll just have the textbooks for class and the supplemental sections.

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CyanIdes Of March
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby CyanIdes Of March » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:14 pm

happymonkey wrote:Are people buying or renting books for the most part? I was thinking of buying used if I can find them with minimal writing/highlighting.


Bought the majority of them online today (for around $550). I figure I can sell them next year for half the price and save a bit that I would have spent on renting.

Hopefully they are as easy to sell as they were to buy.

politics89
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby politics89 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:21 pm

codyoneill wrote:
happymonkey wrote:Are people buying or renting books for the most part? I was thinking of buying used if I can find them with minimal writing/highlighting.


I'm renting on Amazon. Just seems like the easiest option. I'm planning to use LearnLeo for all my case reading / highlighting, so I'll just have the textbooks for class and the supplemental sections.


How do we get the cases on there? I don't really quite get the site yet.

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codyoneill
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby codyoneill » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:37 pm

politics89 wrote:
codyoneill wrote:
happymonkey wrote:Are people buying or renting books for the most part? I was thinking of buying used if I can find them with minimal writing/highlighting.


I'm renting on Amazon. Just seems like the easiest option. I'm planning to use LearnLeo for all my case reading / highlighting, so I'll just have the textbooks for class and the supplemental sections.


How do we get the cases on there? I don't really quite get the site yet.


Yeah, I don't think it's going to work until the semester starts.

Basically you pick what classes you're taking, and the website auto-populates those cases for that class for you. My guess is they don't have all information for what cases are going to be studied in which class until the professors' syllabi come out so that's why it is a little empty now.

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Pneumonia
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby Pneumonia » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:48 pm

codyoneill wrote: Yeah, I don't think it's going to work until the semester starts.

Basically you pick what classes you're taking, and the website auto-populates those cases for that class for you. My guess is they don't have all information for what cases are going to be studied in which class until the professors' syllabi come out so that's why it is a little empty now.


Yeah it is dependent on the syllabi being released, so once someone from your section sends in a syllabus for your class LearnLeo custom creates a case list that everyone in the section can then access.

politics89
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby politics89 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:59 pm

Pneumonia wrote:
codyoneill wrote: Yeah, I don't think it's going to work until the semester starts.

Basically you pick what classes you're taking, and the website auto-populates those cases for that class for you. My guess is they don't have all information for what cases are going to be studied in which class until the professors' syllabi come out so that's why it is a little empty now.


Yeah it is dependent on the syllabi being released, so once someone from your section sends in a syllabus for your class LearnLeo custom creates a case list that everyone in the section can then access.


Wait so it provides the cases for free? What's the point of case books then?

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codyoneill
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby codyoneill » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:04 pm

politics89 wrote:
Pneumonia wrote:
codyoneill wrote: Yeah, I don't think it's going to work until the semester starts.

Basically you pick what classes you're taking, and the website auto-populates those cases for that class for you. My guess is they don't have all information for what cases are going to be studied in which class until the professors' syllabi come out so that's why it is a little empty now.


Yeah it is dependent on the syllabi being released, so once someone from your section sends in a syllabus for your class LearnLeo custom creates a case list that everyone in the section can then access.


Wait so it provides the cases for free? What's the point of case books then?


Supplemental materials, commentary, essays. I imagine.

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Pneumonia
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby Pneumonia » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:18 pm

Yeah the casebooks themselves are proprietary insofar as the cases are edited and the commentary (if any) that is included is original to the book's author, but the individual judicial opinions are public domain..

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Pneumonia
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby Pneumonia » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:28 pm

Here is question: how do Harvard students pronounce "COOP," i.e. the place that you can purchase textbooks at? I have now heard two different people pronounce it like the "coop" in "chicken coop." I've always said "co-op." Am I just hanging around dummies or am I missing something?

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wealtheow
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Re: Harvard Class of 2017

Postby wealtheow » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:33 pm

Pneumonia wrote:Here is question: how do Harvard students pronounce "COOP," i.e. the place that you can purchase textbooks at? I have now heard two different people pronounce it like the "coop" in "chicken coop." I've always said "co-op." Am I just hanging around dummies or am I missing something?


It's definitely coop like chicken coop.




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