Cornell Class of 2017

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2017)
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tyrant_flycatcher
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby tyrant_flycatcher » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:57 pm

JaysonNix1aDay wrote:I'm curious to get the opinions of others in the class, at what point do you think that a difference in GPA is either: A) A useful indicator of a difference in current skill, ability or intelligence (or potential for those, the goal for a firm is after all to hire people who will be good lawyers in 5 years, not good law students now), or B) Robust statistical measures if the tests were given repeatedly, ie what's the signal to noise ratio on exam grades?

As we all try to figure out what GPA ranges mean, I'm curious what people feel like the error bars around our GPA's look like. For me, I can't imagine anything less than a .1 difference is really either going to hold up under repeated testing or indicative or a real difference in skill. For example a person with a 3.5 could be a true talent 3.6 who got unlucky/had a bad day, or a true talent 3.4 who got lucky/had a good day, or anywhere in between.

Thoughts?


Well, whatever you do, I wouldn't try to convince your interviewer that your "true talent" GPA is higher than the GPA you have. I don't think I would be surprised to learn who is at the top of the class. But beyond that IDK.

clsclscls
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby clsclscls » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:30 pm

who do you get to fill out a dean's certification for transfer apps (out of Cornell)?

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Lavitz
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Lavitz » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:15 pm

clsclscls wrote:who do you get to fill out a dean's certification for transfer apps (out of Cornell)?

Maybe the registrar?

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runinthefront
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby runinthefront » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:46 pm

clsclscls wrote:who do you get to fill out a dean's certification for transfer apps (out of Cornell)?


Take it to Call the Registar; they know what to do.

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runinthefront
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby runinthefront » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:01 pm

JaysonNix1aDay wrote:I'm curious to get the opinions of others in the class, at what point do you think that a difference in GPA is either: A) A useful indicator of a difference in current skill, ability or intelligence (or potential for those, the goal for a firm is after all to hire people who will be good lawyers in 5 years, not good law students now), or B) Robust statistical measures if the tests were given repeatedly, ie what's the signal to noise ratio on exam grades?

As we all try to figure out what GPA ranges mean, I'm curious what people feel like the error bars around our GPA's look like. For me, I can't imagine anything less than a .1 difference is really either going to hold up under repeated testing or indicative or a real difference in skill. For example a person with a 3.5 could be a true talent 3.6 who got unlucky/had a bad day, or a true talent 3.4 who got lucky/had a good day, or anywhere in between.

Thoughts?

In my opinion:

GPA is a great indicator of typing speed, reading speed (with "grasp of the English language" attached to this) and memory skills.

GPA is an okay indicator of critical thinking skills.

GPA is a rather poor indicator of raw intelligence, though. Slow typers and some foreigners get pwned by the curve but many are undoubtedly as smart (or smarter) than people with higher GPAs.

redsoxfan1989
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby redsoxfan1989 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:01 pm

runinthefront wrote:
GPA is a great indicator of typing speed.


This is definitely an over exaggerated factor in my experience.

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Ron Howard
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Ron Howard » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:05 pm

runinthefront wrote:
JaysonNix1aDay wrote:I'm curious to get the opinions of others in the class, at what point do you think that a difference in GPA is either: A) A useful indicator of a difference in current skill, ability or intelligence (or potential for those, the goal for a firm is after all to hire people who will be good lawyers in 5 years, not good law students now), or B) Robust statistical measures if the tests were given repeatedly, ie what's the signal to noise ratio on exam grades?

As we all try to figure out what GPA ranges mean, I'm curious what people feel like the error bars around our GPA's look like. For me, I can't imagine anything less than a .1 difference is really either going to hold up under repeated testing or indicative or a real difference in skill. For example a person with a 3.5 could be a true talent 3.6 who got unlucky/had a bad day, or a true talent 3.4 who got lucky/had a good day, or anywhere in between.

Thoughts?

In my opinion:

GPA is a great indicator of typing speed, reading speed (with "grasp of the English language" attached to this) and memory skills.

GPA is an okay indicator of critical thinking skills.

GPA is a rather poor indicator of raw intelligence, though. Slow typers and some foreigners get pwned by the curve but many are undoubtedly as smart (or smarter) than people with higher GPAs.


I go back and forth with the importance of reading speed, so I would like to hear your reasoning for its importance along with the idea of "grasp of the English language". Actually interested

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runinthefront
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby runinthefront » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:27 pm

redsoxfan1989 wrote:
runinthefront wrote:
GPA is a great indicator of typing speed.


This is definitely an over exaggerated factor in my experience.


*great indicator of not being a person that types with two fingers* You don't need to type even 60 wpm to get an A/A+, but for Ohlin/Johnson and others, no way someone's getting an A typing like 2,000 words. It's just not happening.

Ron Howard wrote:I go back and forth with the importance of reading speed, so I would like to hear your reasoning for its importance along with the idea of "grasp of the English language". Actually interested

The faster you can read/digest material, the more time you have to brainstorm > outline > write and/or revise > spellcheck (though many professors don't care about this at all) > type more > revise more. This is sorta intuitive.

This is just what I think

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runthetrap1990
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby runthetrap1990 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:16 am

runinthefront wrote: spellcheck (though many professors don't care about this at all) >



can confirm this. or at least so long as you didn't inadvertently write in another language through misspellings and typos.

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Yea All Right
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Yea All Right » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:06 pm

Any updates on when journal results may come out?

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Lavitz
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Lavitz » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:11 pm

Yea All Right wrote:Any updates on when journal results may come out?

Your notes were so bad that we decided nobody's making a journal this year.

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Lavitz
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Lavitz » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:14 pm

But seriously, still on schedule for the 15th, as far as I know.

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runthetrap1990
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby runthetrap1990 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:32 pm

Lavitz wrote:But seriously, still on schedule for the 15th, as far as I know.


This means that ILJ and JPP results would follow the day after, correct? or have all three come out on the same day at any point in the past?

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Lavitz
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Lavitz » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:35 pm

runthetrap1990 wrote:
Lavitz wrote:But seriously, still on schedule for the 15th, as far as I know.


This means that ILJ and JPP results would follow the day after, correct? or have all three come out on the same day at any point in the past?

Likely the day or two days after. Last year, LR calls went out at like 7pm. Also, some people were on a waitlist for a week before finding out that they made LR.

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Yea All Right
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Yea All Right » Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:39 pm

Ok thanks Lavitz! Hoping I make a journal.

ughbugchugplug
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby ughbugchugplug » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:00 pm

Couple of question, hope you don't mind helping me out:

1) Having spoken to some upper classmen, I've been getting the general impression that 12 credits is a reasonable goal for first semester, given that there's a strong chance I'll be on some journal. Does that sound about right? I'm looking at taking something like two exam classes and trying for one of the six credit internships. Do I need more substantive classes/are internships worth the time? Which am I more likely to get out of in a 'lawyer in the best sense' sense?

2) I'm also interested in fed clerking and would like to try to avoid screwing myself out of that. I assume I'm going to want to do Admin, Bus Orgs, Sec reg, evidence, tax, crim pro, fed courts, etc. Should I try to have some done by the time that I'm applying or wait till later?

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Lavitz
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Lavitz » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:41 pm

ughbugchugplug wrote:Couple of question, hope you don't mind helping me out:

1) Having spoken to some upper classmen, I've been getting the general impression that 12 credits is a reasonable goal for first semester, given that there's a strong chance I'll be on some journal. Does that sound about right? I'm looking at taking something like two exam classes and trying for one of the six credit internships. Do I need more substantive classes/are internships worth the time? Which am I more likely to get out of in a 'lawyer in the best sense' sense?

2) I'm also interested in fed clerking and would like to try to avoid screwing myself out of that. I assume I'm going to want to do Admin, Bus Orgs, Sec reg, evidence, tax, crim pro, fed courts, etc. Should I try to have some done by the time that I'm applying or wait till later?

1) I took 12 credits 2L Fall, but remember you need to take an average of 13 credits per semester so you'll need to make it up eventually. One of the 6 credit internships (AG?) + 2 exam classes sounds fine. Ideally, one should be a seminar so you can use the seminar paper as your note, unless you think you can handle two separate papers. Maybe sign up for oral presentation skills or intro to depositions if you want to increase your credit count this semester without committing to too much work. No idea what you want to get out of the internship, and I haven't done one, so not sure if it's worth the time.

2) This is just my opinion, but imo tax and even sec reg are completely unnecessary. Main classes judges like to see are fed courts, evidence and admin. Of course some judges differ depending on their docket. I know one district court judge that wanted clerks to take employment law because 25% of his cases involved employment claims. Another district judge thought every lawyer should take an accounting class. And a circuit judge didn't care at all as long as you took Fed Courts. Definitely take one of Evidence / Admin / CrimPro this semester because the registrar scheduled them all at the same time, and so who knows whether they'll pull the same dumb schedule in the future. Probably CrimPro since that's the only one that you can't take in the Spring with a different prof if the registrar keeps screwing up. You don't need all your classes to be clerkship-oriented, but probably avoid things like lawyers in the movies.

ughbugchugplug
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby ughbugchugplug » Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:43 pm

Lavitz wrote:1) I took 12 credits 2L Fall, but remember you need to take an average of 13 credits per semester so you'll need to make it up eventually. One of the 6 credit internships (AG?) + 2 exam classes sounds fine. Ideally, one should be a seminar so you can use the seminar paper as your note, unless you think you can handle two separate papers. Maybe sign up for oral presentation skills or intro to depositions if you want to increase your credit count this semester without committing to too much work. No idea what you want to get out of the internship, and I haven't done one, so not sure if it's worth the time.

2) This is just my opinion, but imo tax and even sec reg are completely unnecessary. Main classes judges like to see are fed courts, evidence and admin. Of course some judges differ depending on their docket. I know one district court judge that wanted clerks to take employment law because 25% of his cases involved employment claims. Another district judge thought every lawyer should take an accounting class. And a circuit judge didn't care at all as long as you took Fed Courts. Definitely take one of Evidence / Admin / CrimPro this semester because the registrar scheduled them all at the same time, and so who knows whether they'll pull the same dumb schedule in the future. Probably CrimPro since that's the only one that you can't take in the Spring with a different prof if the registrar keeps screwing up. You don't need all your classes to be clerkship-oriented, but probably avoid things like lawyers in the movies.


Cool, thanks. I'm planning on AG. I don't know how competitive it is to get into, so things might change. I wish I'd budgeted time to apply for the USAO in April but that's much easier to say when 1L is a distant memory. Honestly, my minimal exposure to real lawyer things this summer has made me bit by the practice bug, and I want to do something that isn't just outlining and reading cases this next year. Glad to hear Tax is not necessary ^_^

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Lavitz
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Lavitz » Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:55 pm

ughbugchugplug wrote:Cool, thanks. I'm planning on AG. I don't know how competitive it is to get into, so things might change. I wish I'd budgeted time to apply for the USAO in April but that's much easier to say when 1L is a distant memory.

Not sure about AG, but USAO was very competitive. I didn't even get an interview. AG's likely less competitive.

clsclscls
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby clsclscls » Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:57 pm

for AG or USAO we need to have a car?

Cersei1992
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Cersei1992 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:48 pm

LR calls have begun.

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runthetrap1990
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby runthetrap1990 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:31 am

I have a general curiosity question. With regard to research assistant positions, how does one generally apply for one? Is it a case where professor reaches out, or do you solely rely on Scoops to fill you in on the open spots? Would reaching out to express interest be a credited move?

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Lavitz
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Lavitz » Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:39 am

runthetrap1990 wrote:Would reaching out to express interest be a credited move?

Yes.

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Yea All Right
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Yea All Right » Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:52 pm

I've heard that it's good for people on journals to take a writing seminar so they can use that paper as their Note. If you want to do this, do you have to take the writing seminar during fall semester or would spring semester be ok? I'm not even clear about how many Notes people on journals have to write, is it one per semester or one per year?

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Lavitz
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Lavitz » Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:09 pm

Yea All Right wrote:I've heard that it's good for people on journals to take a writing seminar so they can use that paper as their Note. If you want to do this, do you have to take the writing seminar during fall semester or would spring semester be ok? I'm not even clear about how many Notes people on journals have to write, is it one per semester or one per year?

You're required to write one note for your journal, and it will be due around the beginning of the Spring semester, so the the seminar has to be in Fall.




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