Cornell Class of 2017

(housing, friendships, future exams, all things 2017)
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Lavitz
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Lavitz » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:36 pm

tyrant_flycatcher wrote:1. If a firm under Required Hiring Criteria lists one GPA but under Callback Trend lists a lower GPA, which GPA should we pay attention to?

Callback trend. Disregard the required hiring criteria nonsense.

tyrant_flycatcher wrote:2. If a firm with multiple locations only wants you to bid once and then inform your interviewer of your preferred location, but Symplicity varies number of interview slots by location, why would you ever initially bid on the location with the lower number of interview slots? Reverse psychology?

I'm assuming you're referring to firms like Latham that has two separate screeners conducting interviews for, say, Chicago/Houston/DC and Boston/NYC. In that case, you'd still have to bid on the screener interviewing for the city you're interested in and then specify which of those cities you prefer. You can't tell the Boston/NYC person you're interested in LA. But if there are firms that are like one screener for NYC and one for DC and it says bid on one and let them know, then that's dumb and I can't explain it. But I can't see what you see right now, so idk.

tyrant_flycatcher wrote:3. What's the best way to determine approx. High/Low/Avg. GPA for firms that do not have callback trends? Similarly, if a firm lists GPAs for one location but not another, should we assume that GPAs are generally the same across locations?

Take a stab based on how prestigious firm/office is. I can tell you that last year the average for Ropes & Gray in NYC was 3.63 and in Boston was 3.73.

Like Jones Day (other) and Cleary DC? Yeah, probably around the same.

tyrant_flycatcher wrote:4. I did not advance in Langfan. Should I still list Moot Court on my resume? It seems like TCR is yes, but I don't want to spend time talking to my interviewer about a competition I did OK but not great in. I'd rather the interviewer focus on other, more interesting parts of my resume. Thoughts?

If the other parts are more interesting to your interviewer, then they would ask about them instead. Maybe it happens that your interviewer likes talking about moot court. Sure, if you think you'd bomb a conversation about the distinction between government and private speech, then I guess you could exclude it to avoid talking about it. But I really don't see the harm in adding something cool that you did.

I think I've heard of one instance when someone was like "why'd you bother putting this on here if you didn't advance?" But I've also heard others got to talk about it positively. Nobody asked me about it even though I advanced, but I brought it up in my "litigation or transactional" responses.

tyrant_flycatcher wrote:5. It seems like the general feeling here is that our grades are slightly inflated compared to other classes, given that the cutoff for top 30% is an eye-opening 3.64. Should we downshift accordingly or proceed as is?

I mean, it's not like employers will notice. Maybe don't get too optimistic.

runinthefront wrote:
Toubro wrote:Someone who has more than 100 posts should make this year's AJF thread. I'd do it but I can't use images, and it's not right without that ominous pic of MTH.


Not it.

You're going to make me do it for you, aren't you?

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runinthefront
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby runinthefront » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:49 pm

Dude, you have to do it.

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runthetrap1990
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby runthetrap1990 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:57 pm

runinthefront wrote:Dude, you have to do it.


it's the only way

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tyrant_flycatcher
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby tyrant_flycatcher » Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:37 am

runthetrap1990 wrote:
runinthefront wrote:Dude, you have to do it.


it's the only way


Seriously. And thank you for your comments above.

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Lavitz
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Lavitz » Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:13 pm


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Yea All Right
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Yea All Right » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:22 am

It appears that tuition increased by "only" $590, about a 1% increase. Better than the 4% increase I was expecting based on Lawschool22's spreadsheet.

Of course it would be nice if Cornell wasn't at the top of the law school tuition list.

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runthetrap1990
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby runthetrap1990 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:41 am

Yea All Right wrote:It appears that tuition increased by "only" $590, about a 1% increase. Better than the 4% increase I was expecting based on Lawschool22's spreadsheet.

Of course it would be nice if Cornell wasn't at the top of the law school tuition list.


Making it rain with dem student loans at Moonies next year.

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Yea All Right
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Yea All Right » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:24 am

runthetrap1990 wrote:Making it rain with dem student loans at Moonies next year.


Student Loan Monies at Moonies

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King Cayuga
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby King Cayuga » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:38 am

Cornell clearly didn't want to cross to $60K tuition threshold(it's all you, Columbia!). Of course, they did edge across the $80K cost of attendance line. Maybe CLSA can organize a bar tab to celebrate!

PushaC
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby PushaC » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:40 am

Hi everyone. First time poster.

I was just going through pre-registration stuff, and it looks like Blume's crim pro and Colb's evidence are scheduled for the same time. A couple thoughts:

(1) I had my heart set on taking both classes. Is there any way to get schedules changed around? Talking to the registrar? Talking to the professor? I'm spitballing here.

(2) Is there any deliberate reason for these two classes to coincide? I wouldn't be surprised if there were several people who would take both classes, given the opportunity. At first blush this seems like an oversight. But maybe someone knows better?

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Lavitz
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Lavitz » Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:16 pm

PushaC wrote:Hi everyone. First time poster.

I was just going through pre-registration stuff, and it looks like Blume's crim pro and Colb's evidence are scheduled for the same time. A couple thoughts:

(1) I had my heart set on taking both classes. Is there any way to get schedules changed around? Talking to the registrar? Talking to the professor? I'm spitballing here.

(2) Is there any deliberate reason for these two classes to coincide? I wouldn't be surprised if there were several people who would take both classes, given the opportunity. At first blush this seems like an oversight. But maybe someone knows better?

Huh? They coincided last year too. You take one now and one in 3L. 2 classes coinciding is not something to complain about.

However, what you should be complaining about is that there are 6 total litigation classes that all coincide at that time: Evidence, CrimPro, Admin, Remedies, White Collar, and Conflicts. Certain individuals are currently looking into who to complain to. Maybe a few can get switched, but it is still likely that Evidence and Crimpro will be at the same time, so just deal with it if they are.

PushaC
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby PushaC » Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:14 pm

Lavitz wrote:
PushaC wrote:Hi everyone. First time poster.

I was just going through pre-registration stuff, and it looks like Blume's crim pro and Colb's evidence are scheduled for the same time. A couple thoughts:

(1) I had my heart set on taking both classes. Is there any way to get schedules changed around? Talking to the registrar? Talking to the professor? I'm spitballing here.

(2) Is there any deliberate reason for these two classes to coincide? I wouldn't be surprised if there were several people who would take both classes, given the opportunity. At first blush this seems like an oversight. But maybe someone knows better?

Huh? They coincided last year too. You take one now and one in 3L. 2 classes coinciding is not something to complain about.

However, what you should be complaining about is that there are 6 total litigation classes that all coincide at that time: Evidence, CrimPro, Admin, Remedies, White Collar, and Conflicts. Certain individuals are currently looking into who to complain to. Maybe a few can get switched, but it is still likely that Evidence and Crimpro will be at the same time, so just deal with it if they are.


Not complaining, just asking. Obviously classes will coincide and that's just tough.

The only reason I care is that I'm hoping to do student practice next summer in a PD's or AG's office. To that end, I want to take adjudications, investigations, evidence and trial ad during the next two semesters. Of course I can take evidence in the spring, but it's my understanding that prior study of evidence is recommended for trial ad. Oh well.

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runthetrap1990
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby runthetrap1990 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:26 pm

Lavitz wrote:
PushaC wrote:Hi everyone. First time poster.

I was just going through pre-registration stuff, and it looks like Blume's crim pro and Colb's evidence are scheduled for the same time. A couple thoughts:

(1) I had my heart set on taking both classes. Is there any way to get schedules changed around? Talking to the registrar? Talking to the professor? I'm spitballing here.

(2) Is there any deliberate reason for these two classes to coincide? I wouldn't be surprised if there were several people who would take both classes, given the opportunity. At first blush this seems like an oversight. But maybe someone knows better?

Huh? They coincided last year too. You take one now and one in 3L. 2 classes coinciding is not something to complain about.

However, what you should be complaining about is that there are 6 total litigation classes that all coincide at that time: Evidence, CrimPro, Admin, Remedies, White Collar, and Conflicts. Certain individuals are currently looking into who to complain to. Maybe a few can get switched, but it is still likely that Evidence and Crimpro will be at the same time, so just deal with it if they are.


Yeah, that really miffed me. What the hell? I wanted to take W.C. and CrimPro. I basically have to pick 1 of the 4 classes. Of those classes, which would be the most recommended?

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Lavitz
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Lavitz » Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:37 pm

PushaC wrote:The only reason I care is that I'm hoping to do student practice next summer in a PD's or AG's office. To that end, I want to take adjudications, investigations, evidence and trial ad during the next two semesters. Of course I can take evidence in the spring, but it's my understanding that prior study of evidence is recommended for trial ad. Oh well.

I'd probably save either adjudications or trial ad for 3L.

runthetrap1990 wrote:Yeah, that really miffed me. What the hell? I wanted to take W.C. and CrimPro. I basically have to pick 1 of the 4 classes. Of those classes, which would be the most recommended?

Assuming you have no problem taking Evidence in the Spring or in 3L? CrimPro is great, but it's gunner central. Haven't taken white collar, and I would take it now but for this stupid schedule. I've heard it's ok. If you did really well in Garvey's CrimLaw class, then I guess that makes sense. I don't think anything's most recommended though.

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runthetrap1990
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby runthetrap1990 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:07 pm

Lavitz wrote:CrimPro is great, but it's gunner central. .


could you clarify what you mean? does that mean its an overly intense class? I've heard a lot of great things about it and have interest in the DP clinic, but I really enjoyed CrimLaw too so I was interested in Garvey as well for that reason.

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Lavitz
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Lavitz » Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:39 pm

runthetrap1990 wrote:could you clarify what you mean?

I mean that it was generally understood last semester that the class was full of top students, and so competition for A's was fierce. Remember that now that everyone can choose their classes, the top students can self-select into certain classes and skew the curve. This usually happens in classes good for clerking, like FedCourts, Admin, CrimPro, etc. But CrimPro with Blume is a great class if you don't care about grade-protecting. And it will be more enjoyable than White Collar.

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Yea All Right
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Yea All Right » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:36 pm

TLS says to start mass-mailing in early July, but our journal results won't be out yet. Should we wait until then to see if we do make a journal and can put it on our resume?

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Lavitz
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Lavitz » Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:07 pm

Yea All Right wrote:TLS says to start mass-mailing in early July, but our journal results won't be out yet. Should we wait until then to see if we do make a journal and can put it on our resume?

Sure.

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runthetrap1990
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby runthetrap1990 » Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:22 pm

Yea All Right wrote:TLS says to start mass-mailing in early July, but our journal results won't be out yet. Should we wait until then to see if we do make a journal and can put it on our resume?


I've drafted a cover letter and i'm just waiting on results before I send it out. Assuming the July 17th-ish estimate is accurate, that would still be mid-July and within the timeline that TLS seems to recommend. We should be good.

Wol
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Wol » Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:12 pm

Reading course descriptions, I've noticed a lot of classes recommend the Business Concepts class. I did not take the business class this past Spring. For those who did, was it worth it? Was it the sort of information I could easily learn on my own, or would you recommend I take the class this fall?

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runinthefront
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby runinthefront » Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:39 am

Wol wrote:Reading course descriptions, I've noticed a lot of classes recommend the Business Concepts class. I did not take the business class this past Spring. For those who did, was it worth it? Was it the sort of information I could easily learn on my own, or would you recommend I take the class this fall?


I literally did not retain anything from that class and I don't know anyone who did.

That's not an exaggeration. You'll be fine.

roastbeefy
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby roastbeefy » Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:08 pm

Thoughts on making a class like Biz orgs or sec regs later pass fail? Would firms care/does it look bad if it isn't taken for a grade?

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Lavitz
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby Lavitz » Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:42 am

roastbeefy wrote:Thoughts on making a class like Biz orgs or sec regs later pass fail? Would firms care/does it look bad if it isn't taken for a grade?

Firms will never care.

JaysonNix1aDay
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby JaysonNix1aDay » Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:53 am

I'm curious to get the opinions of others in the class, at what point do you think that a difference in GPA is either: A) A useful indicator of a difference in current skill, ability or intelligence (or potential for those, the goal for a firm is after all to hire people who will be good lawyers in 5 years, not good law students now), or B) Robust statistical measures if the tests were given repeatedly, ie what's the signal to noise ratio on exam grades?

As we all try to figure out what GPA ranges mean, I'm curious what people feel like the error bars around our GPA's look like. For me, I can't imagine anything less than a .1 difference is really either going to hold up under repeated testing or indicative or a real difference in skill. For example a person with a 3.5 could be a true talent 3.6 who got unlucky/had a bad day, or a true talent 3.4 who got lucky/had a good day, or anywhere in between.

Thoughts?

roastbeefy
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Re: Cornell Class of 2017

Postby roastbeefy » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:09 am

Lavitz wrote:
roastbeefy wrote:Thoughts on making a class like Biz orgs or sec regs later pass fail? Would firms care/does it look bad if it isn't taken for a grade?

Firms will never care.


Thanks!

JaysonNix1aDay wrote:I'm curious to get the opinions of others in the class, at what point do you think that a difference in GPA is either: A) A useful indicator of a difference in current skill, ability or intelligence (or potential for those, the goal for a firm is after all to hire people who will be good lawyers in 5 years, not good law students now), or B) Robust statistical measures if the tests were given repeatedly, ie what's the signal to noise ratio on exam grades?

As we all try to figure out what GPA ranges mean, I'm curious what people feel like the error bars around our GPA's look like. For me, I can't imagine anything less than a .1 difference is really either going to hold up under repeated testing or indicative or a real difference in skill. For example a person with a 3.5 could be a true talent 3.6 who got unlucky/had a bad day, or a true talent 3.4 who got lucky/had a good day, or anywhere in between.

Thoughts?


Initial thought is "wut?"

Second thought is it helps compare people, but like you said, there are a bunch of other various factors that go into what skills people have. Some people may be good at test taking, some may be bad.




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