Is a two page resume acceptable here?

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Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:07 pm

Graduated from law school past May, currently applying for fed judicial clerkships.

- I had about 6 positions during law school at firms/judicial internships.
- I also have 5 publications in 5 law school journals (a mix of secondary journals and law reviews) around the country prior to graduation. My understanding is judges like students who've published, so I've included them all in my resume.
- When I include all this with my undergrad (which takes up only 2 lines)/law school credentials (3-4 awards, journal etc), I'm now on page 2, and that's by squeezing every piece of white space I can on the first page and messing around with the margins a lot.

Is it okay to submit a 2 page resume for Art III clerkships if I've cut all the fat out of my resume to the best of my abilities?

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rpupkin
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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby rpupkin » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:23 pm

I doubt you need more than one page. (By the way, if your "6 positions during law school at firms/judicial internships" are taking up more than a third of your resume, then something is wrong. I'm sure you can edit that stuff down significantly.)

If feel like you must exceed a page, then put your main resume on one page, and then add an attachment for publications.

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:27 pm

rpupkin wrote:I doubt you need more than one page. (By the way, if your "6 positions during law school at firms/judicial internships" are taking up more than a third of your resume, then something is wrong. I'm sure you can edit that stuff down significantly.)

If feel like you must exceed a page, then put your main resume on one page, and then add an attachment for publications.


OP here: Each position only has a line or two describing what I did, so should I just take one or two out? I'd like to keep the publications on the resume if possible.

I also have a volunteer thing that I've done too. I guess I'm stressing out over what's relevant and what isn't since it all seems like it gives a holistic picture of me as a candidate. if this was a law firm I could definitely keep this all to one page.

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby rpupkin » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
rpupkin wrote:I doubt you need more than one page. (By the way, if your "6 positions during law school at firms/judicial internships" are taking up more than a third of your resume, then something is wrong. I'm sure you can edit that stuff down significantly.)

If feel like you must exceed a page, then put your main resume on one page, and then add an attachment for publications.


OP here: Each position only has a line or two describing what I did, so should I just take one or two out?

Yes. For example, everyone knows what judicial interns do. You don't need a line stating "conducted legal research, drafted orders, drafted memos . . . "

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:33 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
rpupkin wrote:I doubt you need more than one page. (By the way, if your "6 positions during law school at firms/judicial internships" are taking up more than a third of your resume, then something is wrong. I'm sure you can edit that stuff down significantly.)

If feel like you must exceed a page, then put your main resume on one page, and then add an attachment for publications.


OP here: Each position only has a line or two describing what I did, so should I just take one or two out?

Yes. For example, everyone knows what judicial interns do. You don't need a line stating "conducted legal research, drafted orders, drafted memos . . . "



Yeah for sure - Is it not weird just stating the position without putting a space filler line like that? If it were a law firm I'd just put the position, but I feel inclined to put something because it's a clerkship position.

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landshoes
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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby landshoes » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:39 pm

...it’s not a clerkship position. It’s a judicial internship.

If you really insist, make it two pages.

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:41 pm

landshoes wrote:...it’s not a clerkship position. It’s a judicial internship.

If you really insist, make it two pages.



Sorry I meant like the position I'm applying for is a clerkship so I feel like I have to describe everything, but if it isn't necessary for my 1L judicial internship i can just put the position and leave it at that.

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby landshoes » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:42 pm

I’ve never worked in chambers, but I’d assume that, if anything, judges will know more about what judicial interns do than anyone else.

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby rpupkin » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Yeah for sure - Is it not weird just stating the position without putting a space filler line like that? If it were a law firm I'd just put the position, but I feel inclined to put something because it's a clerkship position.

Law firm hiring and clerkship hiring aren't as different as you think. Both involve folks quickly skimming stacks of resumes. Generally, your law school/GPA/rank will be the most important thing, followed by letters of recommendation. You should certainly list your judicial internships and summer-associate stints on your resume, but adding a line about the routine tasks you did for each is not going to increase your chances of being hired as a clerk.

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:50 pm

rpupkin wrote:If feel like you must exceed a page, then put your main resume on one page, and then add an attachment for publications.

Yes, this.

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:50 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Yeah for sure - Is it not weird just stating the position without putting a space filler line like that? If it were a law firm I'd just put the position, but I feel inclined to put something because it's a clerkship position.

Law firm hiring and clerkship hiring aren't as different as you think. Both involve folks quickly skimming stacks of resumes. Generally, your law school/GPA/rank will be the most important thing, followed by letters of recommendation. You should certainly list your judicial internships and summer-associate stints on your resume, but adding a line about the routine tasks you did for each is not going to increase your chances of being hired as a clerk.



Got it, that makes sense. I guess I'll have to live with not having room for a personal interests section that I heard judges sometimes like to see.

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:51 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Yeah for sure - Is it not weird just stating the position without putting a space filler line like that? If it were a law firm I'd just put the position, but I feel inclined to put something because it's a clerkship position.

Law firm hiring and clerkship hiring aren't as different as you think. Both involve folks quickly skimming stacks of resumes. Generally, your law school/GPA/rank will be the most important thing, followed by letters of recommendation. You should certainly list your judicial internships and summer-associate stints on your resume, but adding a line about the routine tasks you did for each is not going to increase your chances of being hired as a clerk.


Got it, that makes sense. I guess I'll have to live with not having room for a personal interests section that I heard judges sometimes like to see.

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby rpupkin » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Yeah for sure - Is it not weird just stating the position without putting a space filler line like that? If it were a law firm I'd just put the position, but I feel inclined to put something because it's a clerkship position.

Law firm hiring and clerkship hiring aren't as different as you think. Both involve folks quickly skimming stacks of resumes. Generally, your law school/GPA/rank will be the most important thing, followed by letters of recommendation. You should certainly list your judicial internships and summer-associate stints on your resume, but adding a line about the routine tasks you did for each is not going to increase your chances of being hired as a clerk.



Got it, that makes sense. I guess I'll have to live with not having room for a personal interests section that I heard judges sometimes like to see.

I wouldn't live with that. Personal interests can be surprisingly important. I of course haven't seen your resume, but I'm quite confident that there's a line or two on there right now that is less important than personal interests.

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:03 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Yeah for sure - Is it not weird just stating the position without putting a space filler line like that? If it were a law firm I'd just put the position, but I feel inclined to put something because it's a clerkship position.

Law firm hiring and clerkship hiring aren't as different as you think. Both involve folks quickly skimming stacks of resumes. Generally, your law school/GPA/rank will be the most important thing, followed by letters of recommendation. You should certainly list your judicial internships and summer-associate stints on your resume, but adding a line about the routine tasks you did for each is not going to increase your chances of being hired as a clerk.



Got it, that makes sense. I guess I'll have to live with not having room for a personal interests section that I heard judges sometimes like to see.

I wouldn't live with that. Personal interests can be surprisingly important. I of course haven't seen your resume, but I'm quite confident that there's a line or two on there right now that is less important than personal interests.


And I will find them and destroy them, Cheers for the feedback.

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby lolwat » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:23 pm

I agree with rpupkin's advice.

You should certainly list your judicial internships and summer-associate stints on your resume, but adding a line about the routine tasks you did for each is not going to increase your chances of being hired as a clerk.


That's probably the biggest cut most people can make.

There are times where a two-page resume could be appropriate, but even then, it tends to be after a few years in practice and more along the lines of a one-page resume with an addendum for publications, representative matters/deals, and stuff like that. I do recognize that you have a bunch of publications and jobs already. I dunno about 6 jobs though; I stopped listing most of my summer/school-year stuffs because they're just not too relevant anymore, but they might still be important to your resume.

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby lavarman84 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:42 pm

landshoes wrote:I’ve never worked in chambers, but I’d assume that, if anything, judges will know more about what judicial interns do than anyone else.


From working in chambers, it seems like most clerks and judges think judicial externships are more for the benefit of the extern than chambers. Basically, I agree with landshoes. You don't need any explanation there unless you did something truly noteworthy or rare.

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby SmokeytheBear » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:02 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
rpupkin wrote:If feel like you must exceed a page, then put your main resume on one page, and then add an attachment for publications.

Yes, this.

Concur.

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby mjb447 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:32 pm

lavarman84 wrote:
landshoes wrote:I’ve never worked in chambers, but I’d assume that, if anything, judges will know more about what judicial interns do than anyone else.


From working in chambers, it seems like most clerks and judges think judicial externships are more for the benefit of the extern than chambers. Basically, I agree with landshoes. You don't need any explanation there unless you did something truly noteworthy or rare.

SmokeytheBear wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
rpupkin wrote:If feel like you must exceed a page, then put your main resume on one page, and then add an attachment for publications.

Yes, this.

Concur.

Piling on a little, but I agree with all of this.

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby HillandHollow » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:10 pm

My clerkship app resume was about 1 and 3/4 pages because I wanted to include all the pro bono/volunteer stuff I did in law school, as well as the five years of work experience I had prior to law school. My resume is explicitly public interesty though, and I wanted to hammer that point home, because I was applying to judges who prefer that. I ended up cutting my law school student orgs (because I honestly didn't DO much with them) in favor of a personal interests line. ALL of the judges I interviewed with asked me about one or more of my personal interests.

Anyway, shorter is better. I am trying to cut mine down to one page now for subsequent apps.

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby lolwat » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:55 pm

HillandHollow wrote:My clerkship app resume was about 1 and 3/4 pages because I wanted to include all the pro bono/volunteer stuff I did in law school, as well as the five years of work experience I had prior to law school. My resume is explicitly public interesty though, and I wanted to hammer that point home, because I was applying to judges who prefer that. I ended up cutting my law school student orgs (because I honestly didn't DO much with them) in favor of a personal interests line. ALL of the judges I interviewed with asked me about one or more of my personal interests.

Anyway, shorter is better. I am trying to cut mine down to one page now for subsequent apps.


Yeah, there are occasional reasons such as yours to have a 2-page resume. It's very rare though.

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby ggocat » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:00 pm

I don't think you need to describe what you did during law school jobs. That will save a lot of space. I'm 5-10 years out of law school with 6 law school jobs and 3 pre-law school jobs on a one-page resume.

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby burner » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:08 am

For what it's worth, I thought the rule of thumb was you should only have a two page resume for 1)significant work experience and/or 2) military. If you have 4 years military and you were deployed, you have to spend time explaining to civilians what you did, thus taking more space. I fit both criteria, and had four internships during law school, and have an interests section and mine is still two pages. My two cents

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby rpupkin » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:21 am

burner wrote:For what it's worth, I thought the rule of thumb was you should only have a two page resume for 1)significant work experience and/or 2) military. If you have 4 years military and you were deployed, you have to spend time explaining to civilians what you did, thus taking more space. I fit both criteria, and had four internships during law school, and have an interests section and mine is still two pages. My two cents

I've never heard of the "two pages is ok if you have military experience" rule. I'm not sure why you would need to devote lots of space to "explaining to civilians what you did"—unless, of course, what you did is directly relevant to the legal job you're seeking.

It's true that a 1+ page resume is easier to justify if you have years of significant work experience. I've noticed, however, that K-JD types are more likely than others to submit multi-page resumes. Ironically, applicants in their 30s—those with 5-10 years of significant work experience—are more likely to keep their resumes to a single page. They've learned how to distill/highlight what matters. Also, many of them have reviewed applications and resumes before, and they therefore know that anything beyond page 1 of a resume is unlikely to be read.

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby burner » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:40 am

rpupkin wrote:
burner wrote:For what it's worth, I thought the rule of thumb was you should only have a two page resume for 1)significant work experience and/or 2) military. If you have 4 years military and you were deployed, you have to spend time explaining to civilians what you did, thus taking more space. I fit both criteria, and had four internships during law school, and have an interests section and mine is still two pages. My two cents

I've never heard of the "two pages is ok if you have military experience" rule. I'm not sure why you would need to devote lots of space to "explaining to civilians what you did"—unless, of course, what you did is directly relevant to the legal job you're seeking.

It's true that a 1+ page resume is easier to justify if you have years of significant work experience. I've noticed, however, that K-JD types are more likely than others to submit multi-page resumes. Ironically, applicants in their 30s—those with 5-10 years of significant work experience—are more likely to keep their resumes to a single page. They've learned how to distill/highlight what matters. Also, many of them have reviewed applications and resumes before, and they therefore know that anything beyond page 1 of a resume is unlikely to be read.


I don't know if you're a Vet, but in my experience, there's some terms and acronyms that gets lost in translation with non-Veterans. If you're a Veteran and you're applying to a job, especially government (or even firms) I don't know why you'd leave or gloss over your military service, even if it isn't "relevant to the legal job you're seeking." Personally, evaluating my resume now with post law school WE, I'll likely pare it down to the major deployments and keep it a quarter of a page, but when I was in law school or just graduated I felt I had to explain why I was in three to five places in four years working different jobs 3-4 pay grades above my head. I agree to distill what matters but I think you have to mention points of your history that will resonate with the employer.

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Re: Is a two page resume acceptable here?

Postby rpupkin » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:52 am

burner wrote:I don't know if you're a Vet

I am not a Vet. But I've reviewed applications/resumes from Vets—both as a judicial clerk in chambers and as an associate at a law firm—and I haven't noticed that their resumes provide the sort of detail you're talking about.

I think being a Vet is generally a boost, and I certainly wouldn't suggest that Vets leave military experience off of their resumes. But the notion that Vets need (or are expected) to provide significant detail about their various experiences seems off to me.
Last edited by rpupkin on Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:58 am, edited 2 times in total.




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