condescending fellow clerks

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mjb447
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Re: condescending fellow clerks

Postby mjb447 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:15 am

Nebby wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Nebby wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Nebby wrote:I think I've come to the conclusion that if anyone actually wants a clerkship experience that will make them a better litigator, they should clerk for a mag. They see all the real action.

But rarely trials.

True! Because trials are so common in most people's practice :mrgreen:

For some of us they are.

I said most people!

Helpful to see at least a few trials since so many of the standards revolve around trial (especially "what could a jury reasonably do?" or "what would be admissible or lead to admissible evidence?"). You don't have to see a ton, but then clerkships are generally only a year long.

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runinthefront
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Re: condescending fellow clerks

Postby runinthefront » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:31 am

Nebby wrote:What does a d clerk get that they can't if they just went and watched trials?

paid

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: condescending fellow clerks

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:48 am

Nebby wrote:What does a d clerk get that they can't if they just went and watched trials?

Access to all the pretrial litigation and the reasoning behind the judge's decisions about what stays in and what stays out and how the trial will be structured and all kinds of shit you don't see as a spectator in the courtroom. Info on how the sausage gets made - judges have a different perspective from either of the parties and invariably shift the focus around a little bit - you see that from the inside and learn why they do that, rather than just react as one of the parties.

It's not like you can't be a great litigator without clerking, but if you are a litigator, clerking is always going to teach you something.

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grand inquisitor
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Re: condescending fellow clerks

Postby grand inquisitor » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:16 am

if you are really lucky you get the judge instant messaging you criticism of the attorneys live during trials

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radio1nowhere
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Re: condescending fellow clerks

Postby radio1nowhere » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:37 am

Now that we've established that HYS sux and mag > d. ct, it's time to move on to discussing how getting worse grades means you're a better student

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Nebby
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Re: condescending fellow clerks

Postby Nebby » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:39 am

radio1nowhere wrote:Now that we've established that HYS sux and mag > d. ct, it's time to move on to discussing how getting worse grades means you're a better student

Lol

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Mr. Blackacre
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Re: condescending fellow clerks

Postby Mr. Blackacre » Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:15 pm

radio1nowhere wrote:Now that we've established that HYS sux and mag > d. ct, it's time to move on to discussing how getting worse grades means you're a better student


Found the Harvard grad.

Oh wait, you actually go to Harvard? Of course you do. I think we can close this thread now, it's all downhill from here.

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radio1nowhere
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Re: condescending fellow clerks

Postby radio1nowhere » Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:54 pm

Mr. Blackacre wrote:
radio1nowhere wrote:Now that we've established that HYS sux and mag > d. ct, it's time to move on to discussing how getting worse grades means you're a better student


Found the Harvard grad.

Oh wait, you actually go to Harvard? Of course you do. I think we can close this thread now, it's all downhill from here.

Just joking around my dude :mrgreen:

Anonymous User
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Re: condescending fellow clerks

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:29 pm

mag clerk here.. I spend a lot of time doing stuff any reasonably intelligent high school grad could be trained to do in a couple of weeks. It probably is more practically applicable training for a typical litigator, but I think DJ clerks spend more time doing serious research and analysis. Most of our motions end up resolved by asking ourselves "is this discovery request reasonable under the circumstances? yeah, I guess it is".

Oh, and CLS grads are the most insufferable in my experience.

lolwat
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Re: condescending fellow clerks

Postby lolwat » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:42 pm

Access to all the pretrial litigation and the reasoning behind the judge's decisions about what stays in and what stays out and how the trial will be structured and all kinds of shit you don't see as a spectator in the courtroom. Info on how the sausage gets made - judges have a different perspective from either of the parties and invariably shift the focus around a little bit - you see that from the inside and learn why they do that, rather than just react as one of the parties.


Yeah we had sort of a "what'd the attorneys' do well and horribly" session for trials.
Also we were allowed to be part of sidebars when the issues pertained to something we worked on. That was cool -- attorneys would argue, then go sit down, then we'd discuss with the judge what he should do, and then he'd make a decision.

mag clerk here.. I spend a lot of time doing stuff any reasonably intelligent high school grad could be trained to do in a couple of weeks. It probably is more practically applicable training for a typical litigator, but I think DJ clerks spend more time doing serious research and analysis. Most of our motions end up resolved by asking ourselves "is this discovery request reasonable under the circumstances? yeah, I guess it is".


I think that's the problem with being on the side of resolving discovery disputes. For the most part, on the litigator side, I tend to see discovery liberally granted unless the requests are clearly overreaching or there is something else at play, e.g., privilege or privacy problems. Every once in a blue moon there will be some interesting issue to brief, but the vast majority of the time it's just one side overreaching or the other side stonewalling because the clients don't want to give shit up or the attorneys just want to play hardball.

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Re: condescending fellow clerks

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:24 pm

grand inquisitor wrote:if you are really lucky you get the judge instant messaging you criticism of the attorneys live during trials


This is seriously the best part of being in trial. My judge has a wicked sense of humor and is not shy about sending me really snarky comments; I've nearly LOL'd more than once and had to turn it into a cough. :lol:

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grand inquisitor
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Re: condescending fellow clerks

Postby grand inquisitor » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:17 am

my personal goal during my year was to make judge laugh out loud while on the bench. i finally succeeded during a suppression hearing, strangely enough.

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mjb447
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Re: condescending fellow clerks

Postby mjb447 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:41 am

[Results not typical. Your results may vary.]

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Re: condescending fellow clerks

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:51 pm

OP here.

I haven't logged in for a bit and woahhhh. One thing I can confirm are that the clerks went to HLS. So you all are right. One thing though is that they seem to have calmed down now. Maybe a bit of feather puffing?!

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mjb447
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Re: condescending fellow clerks

Postby mjb447 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here.

I haven't logged in for a bit and woahhhh. One thing I can confirm are that the clerks went to HLS. So you all are right. One thing though is that they seem to have calmed down now. Maybe a bit of feather puffing?!

Possibly. If you all just started, there can be a lot of posturing at the beginning and people trying to reassure themselves that they belong and will do well.

Whatever it is, I'm glad things seem to be going better.

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lavarman84
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Re: condescending fellow clerks

Postby lavarman84 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:27 pm

mjb447 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here.

I haven't logged in for a bit and woahhhh. One thing I can confirm are that the clerks went to HLS. So you all are right. One thing though is that they seem to have calmed down now. Maybe a bit of feather puffing?!

Possibly. If you all just started, there can be a lot of posturing at the beginning and people trying to reassure themselves that they belong and will do well.

Whatever it is, I'm glad things seem to be going better.


Yep. I saw the same thing when I just starting. I guess those people wanted to prove that they belonged.

lolwat
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Re: condescending fellow clerks

Postby lolwat » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:30 pm

lavarman84 wrote:
mjb447 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here.

I haven't logged in for a bit and woahhhh. One thing I can confirm are that the clerks went to HLS. So you all are right. One thing though is that they seem to have calmed down now. Maybe a bit of feather puffing?!

Possibly. If you all just started, there can be a lot of posturing at the beginning and people trying to reassure themselves that they belong and will do well.

Whatever it is, I'm glad things seem to be going better.


Yep. I saw the same thing when I just starting. I guess those people wanted to prove that they belonged.


Ha. Well, glad things are calm now. Hope you're enjoying the clerkship.

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Re: condescending fellow clerks

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:54 pm

I also noticed this summer that some people from (presumably) competitive, dickish schools started out expecting everyone else to be competitive and dickish. But by the second week they just chilled out when they realized everyone was normal and they didn't have to be defensive assholes.




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