Credentials for 2/9/DC

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Credentials for 2/9/DC

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:26 pm

I'm a naive 2L at HYS :oops: , wondering about the qualifications one needs for CA 2,9, and DC, as I don't want to overreach in asking professors for letters of recommendation. If I had to guess class rank I'd say edge of top 33%, and law review. Two questions: 1) Am I a competitive clerkship applicant for the 2nd, 9th, and DC circuits? and 2) If not, what are the credentials (i.e., grades) one needs to be a competitive applicant on these circuits? Please help and thanks!

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Mullens
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Re: Credentials for 2/9/DC

Postby Mullens » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a naive 2L at HYS :oops: , wondering about the qualifications one needs for CA 2,9, and DC, as I don't want to overreach in asking professors for letters of recommendation. If I had to guess class rank I'd say edge of top 33%, and law review. Two questions: 1) Am I a competitive clerkship applicant for the 2nd, 9th, and DC circuits? and 2) If not, what are the credentials (i.e., grades) one needs to be a competitive applicant on these circuits? Please help and thanks!


Ask your school's clerkship office. They have more data and a much better idea than random anecdotes on TLS.

hlsperson1111
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Re: Credentials for 2/9/DC

Postby hlsperson1111 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a naive 2L at HYS :oops: , wondering about the qualifications one needs for CA 2,9, and DC, as I don't want to overreach in asking professors for letters of recommendation. If I had to guess class rank I'd say edge of top 33%, and law review. Two questions: 1) Am I a competitive clerkship applicant for the 2nd, 9th, and DC circuits? and 2) If not, what are the credentials (i.e., grades) one needs to be a competitive applicant on these circuits? Please help and thanks!


My wild speculation is that you are competitive for non-feeders on 2/9 but not a lock by any means. I don't think you should worry about "overreaching" - it doesn't take your professors any more effort to write you a recommendation for 2/9/DC than it does for any other clerkship.

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Re: Credentials for 2/9/DC

Postby KissMyAxe » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:18 am

Mullens wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm a naive 2L at HYS :oops: , wondering about the qualifications one needs for CA 2,9, and DC, as I don't want to overreach in asking professors for letters of recommendation. If I had to guess class rank I'd say edge of top 33%, and law review. Two questions: 1) Am I a competitive clerkship applicant for the 2nd, 9th, and DC circuits? and 2) If not, what are the credentials (i.e., grades) one needs to be a competitive applicant on these circuits? Please help and thanks!


Ask your school's clerkship office. They have more data and a much better idea than random anecdotes on TLS.


I typically do not recommend asking the clerkship office. I have friends scattered throughout the T14, and it seems they're all about the same as pre-law advisors in sheer incompetency. Perhaps if you're just getting data, but clerkship hiring is so idiosyncratic that I don't think it would be very helpful for many judges. Instead, if you have professors you think will be strong recommenders, tell them your interests and ask if there's anyone you might be a good fit for. They'll likely suggest some judges they know personally whom you'd be competitive for. That's also the way to get a judge that might be a better fit than if you just massmail off of OSCAR. I guarantee you many of your classmates have been doing this for months now, so I do recommend doing it sooner, rather than later.

PM me if you're interested in hearing more.

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Re: Credentials for 2/9/DC

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:35 am

Without some pretty compelling hook (and maybe even with a hook), you would not have been competitive for my non-feeder 9th Cir judge.

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Re: Credentials for 2/9/DC

Postby jrf12886 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:59 am

HLS's clerkship office actually is pretty good. They specifically address this question on their website under "Factors to Consider." (requires a HLS login). I can only speak for 2d Cir, and I think it will be difficult to get an interview with your grades, but not impossible if you have an interesting background/work experience. If you get closer to top 20-15%, you will have a much better chance of getting through an initial grade screening.

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Re: Credentials for 2/9/DC

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:53 pm

Those grades probably wouldn't cut it even for my Ninth Circuit District Court judge, absent truly exceptional letters of rec.

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nothingtosee
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Re: Credentials for 2/9/DC

Postby nothingtosee » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:21 pm

idk about YS but hlr is def a strong enough credential for some non NYC second circuit judges

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Re: Credentials for 2/9/DC

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Those grades probably wouldn't cut it even for my Ninth Circuit District Court judge, absent truly exceptional letters of rec.


I'm in no position to say what your judge does, but I clerked for a district judge in California and those credentials would have been more than sufficient to get over the grade/school cutoff.

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Re: Credentials for 2/9/DC

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Those grades probably wouldn't cut it even for my Ninth Circuit District Court judge, absent truly exceptional letters of rec.


Contrary to this, based on my experience with non-feeders on CA2 and CA9, if you're at HLS those credentials will at least put you in the ballpark. The key is networking. Especially if you're on law review, use contacts with older/graduated editors to get a sense of things. Also OCS is actually very good, not at all "incompetent" as another person suggested.

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Re: Credentials for 2/9/DC

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:38 pm

At Y top 1/3 + LR would put you in the running for all but feeders on the 2nd/9th, and perhaps even feeders depending on your political party / URM (assuming that would be 3Hs/1P). I imagine that Stanford would be similar, with the 2nd slightly easier than the 9th. At YLS DC circuit would likely be tough with those statistics, depending on the class in which you got a P in.

No idea about HLS.

Caveat to all of this is that you would need a relatively well-connected prof to push for you, but if you have that you should ask them. It's their job.

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Re: Credentials for 2/9/DC

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:At Y top 1/3 + LR would put you in the running for all but feeders on the 2nd/9th, and perhaps even feeders depending on your political party / URM (assuming that would be 3Hs/1P). I imagine that Stanford would be similar, with the 2nd slightly easier than the 9th. At YLS DC circuit would likely be tough with those statistics, depending on the class in which you got a P in.

No idea about HLS.

Caveat to all of this is that you would need a relatively well-connected prof to push for you, but if you have that you should ask them. It's their job.


That might put you in the running for *some* non-feeders on the 2/9. But again, top 1/3 + LR at Yale would not have made the cut off for interviews at my non-feeder Ninth Circuit judge without some pretty incredible hook. (Like, for example, if J.D. Vance applied with those stats, he'd get an interview.) If you have Akhil Amar calling to say that you're the best student he's had in a couple of years, sure, that might change things. But reasonably strong recs from relatively well-connected professors wouldn't be enough.

Incidentally, we kept pretty careful track of this when I was clerking, and the proportion of Hs and Ps necessary to be in the top 1/3 at Y differs pretty substantially from H, which differs pretty substantially from S. These things change a bit over time, but at least several years ago, 75% Hs (with no individual class honors) would have put you right around the top 10% of S and would have been probably top 25% of Harvard. (Top 1/3 at Y sounds about right with those grades, although with Yale, given the way grades are dolled out, we almost always looked at *where* students were getting their Hs. 75% Hs in all small seminars could indicate a basically median student who did a great job choosing his or her courses.)

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Re: Credentials for 2/9/DC

Postby HamlinMcgill » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:10 pm

At SLS, career services told us 60%-65% Hs puts you in a decent position for the most competitive circuits. I'd guess that would be about top 25% of the class, but I'm not sure.

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Re: Credentials for 2/9/DC

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:At Y top 1/3 + LR would put you in the running for all but feeders on the 2nd/9th, and perhaps even feeders depending on your political party / URM (assuming that would be 3Hs/1P). I imagine that Stanford would be similar, with the 2nd slightly easier than the 9th. At YLS DC circuit would likely be tough with those statistics, depending on the class in which you got a P in.

No idea about HLS.

Caveat to all of this is that you would need a relatively well-connected prof to push for you, but if you have that you should ask them. It's their job.


Y grad currently clerking for a feeder. This is credited.

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Re: Credentials for 2/9/DC

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:At Y top 1/3 + LR would put you in the running for all but feeders on the 2nd/9th, and perhaps even feeders depending on your political party / URM (assuming that would be 3Hs/1P). I imagine that Stanford would be similar, with the 2nd slightly easier than the 9th. At YLS DC circuit would likely be tough with those statistics, depending on the class in which you got a P in.

No idea about HLS.

Caveat to all of this is that you would need a relatively well-connected prof to push for you, but if you have that you should ask them. It's their job.


Y grad currently clerking for a feeder. This is credited.


Different Y grad who clerked on CA9. Agreed.

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Re: Credentials for 2/9/DC

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:39 am

Any sense of which judges on the DC Circuit are the least grade concious?

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Re: Credentials for 2/9/DC

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:Any sense of which judges on the DC Circuit are the least grade concious?


Of the active judges, Wilkins and Henderson.

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Re: Credentials for 2/9/DC

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:32 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any sense of which judges on the DC Circuit are the least grade concious?


Of the active judges, Wilkins and Henderson.


Any sense of where Rogers falls on the spectrum?

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Re: Credentials for 2/9/DC

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:29 pm

My 2d cir judge would look at you (top 1/3 with HLR). On the lower side of the gpa range but not out of consideration, esp if you have other qualities we look for & someone makes a personal overture

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Re: Credentials for 2/9/DC

Postby hlsperson1111 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any sense of which judges on the DC Circuit are the least grade concious?


Of the active judges, Wilkins and Henderson.


Any sense of where Rogers falls on the spectrum?


I know multiple people who clerked for her from HLS who did not graduate magna cum laude. But probably still quite grade conscious.

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Re: Credentials for 2/9/DC

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:31 pm

Rogers is also less picky. At my CCN she hires people who are outside top 5% after 1L (but probably still in top 10%).




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