Bk clerkship > D.Ct. or COA clerkship?

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FascinatedWanderer
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Re: Bk clerkship > D.Ct. or COA clerkship?

Postby FascinatedWanderer » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:05 pm

Hahahaha. But yes, we have access to a list of who goes to clerk where, and my year we had 0 bankruptcy clerks.

MichelleMichelle
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Re: Bk clerkship > D.Ct. or COA clerkship?

Postby MichelleMichelle » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:19 pm

I regret having started this debate. But I feel compelled to chime in only to add that at my T6 we have had several bankruptcy clerks, most of whom had strong credentials and would have been good candidates for a DC clerkship if they had wanted one.

But ultimately, I think the ground has been covered in this thread-- you should do a bankruptcy clerkship if you would like to go into bankruptcy. If you are hoping to achieve some other goal, it may not help much.

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lavarman84
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Re: Bk clerkship > D.Ct. or COA clerkship?

Postby lavarman84 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:40 pm

rpupkin wrote:
FascinatedWanderer wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
MichelleMichelle wrote:There is a wide gap between that, and saying (as someone else in this thread did) that "many bankruptcy judges aren't well regarded."

I don't have strong feelings on this topic, but I'll bother to note that, whereas AIII judges are nominated and confirmed by the political branches, bankruptcy judges are selected by the COA judges of the Circuit in which the bankruptcy judges sit. So I am a little skeptical of the notion that bankruptcy judges aren't respected by the other federal judges in the region.

Having said that, I don't think that clerking for a bankruptcy judge is the way to go if you're trying to improve your chances at a district court clerkship. It has nothing to do with the quality of the judges; it has to do with the fact that clerking for a speciality court (whether we're talking about bankruptcy court or CIT or tax court or whatever) is generally poor preparation for a clerkship with a court that has more varied subject-matter jurisdiction.

If you want to practice in a niche area like bankruptcy, then go clerk for a bankruptcy judge and start practicing bankruptcy law. If you don't want to do that, then don't clerk for a bankruptcy judge.


I'm not trying to say that they go around openly disrespecting them. Just that I've heard multiple judges make offhand comments like "double check the bankruptcy opinion below, many times they don't get it right."

That's basically how COA judges talk about district court judges. Yet COA judges still hire district-court clerks.


Meanwhile, the D. Ct. judges and clerks complain about the COA judges' lack of clarity when creating a rule, inconsistent rulings, and illogical reversals. I think the judicial branch just enjoys complaining about the other parts. :lol:

donkeyteeth2017
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Re: Bk clerkship > D.Ct. or COA clerkship?

Postby donkeyteeth2017 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:01 pm

lavarman84 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Well you're wrong about my credentials. Careful with those assumptions


If you have the credentials, why do you need the bankruptcy clerkship?


I never said I "needed" a bankruptcy clerkship. Was just curious if any D.Ct. or COA clerks previously clerked in Bk ct.

FascinatedWanderer
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Re: Bk clerkship > D.Ct. or COA clerkship?

Postby FascinatedWanderer » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:52 am

donkeyteeth2017 wrote:Does a bankruptcy clerkship help your chances of subsequently clerking for a District Ct. or COA judge? Has anyone here made this move before?


You understand, of course, why people made this (very reasonable) assumption. In any event, your extreme defensiveness is unwarranted. If you have the creds, go get yourself a District Court clerkship. If you don't then keep posting here about how you have the creds. The choice is yours.

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lavarman84
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Re: Bk clerkship > D.Ct. or COA clerkship?

Postby lavarman84 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:20 am

donkeyteeth2017 wrote:
lavarman84 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Well you're wrong about my credentials. Careful with those assumptions


If you have the credentials, why do you need the bankruptcy clerkship?


I never said I "needed" a bankruptcy clerkship. Was just curious if any D.Ct. or COA clerks previously clerked in Bk ct.


I'm sure some have, but if you already have the credentials and don't want to practice bankruptcy law, you might as well do something more useful if you can't get a clerkship right out of law school.

donkeyteeth2017
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Re: Bk clerkship > D.Ct. or COA clerkship?

Postby donkeyteeth2017 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:29 pm

FascinatedWanderer wrote:
donkeyteeth2017 wrote:Does a bankruptcy clerkship help your chances of subsequently clerking for a District Ct. or COA judge? Has anyone here made this move before?


You understand, of course, why people made this (very reasonable) assumption. In any event, your extreme defensiveness is unwarranted. If you have the creds, go get yourself a District Court clerkship. If you don't then keep posting here about how you have the creds. The choice is yours.


Yes, I understand because the nature of many people on TLS is to condescend. Many people with the creds for a Dct clerkship still don't get one

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rpupkin
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Re: Bk clerkship > D.Ct. or COA clerkship?

Postby rpupkin » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:46 pm

donkeyteeth2017 wrote:
FascinatedWanderer wrote:
donkeyteeth2017 wrote:Does a bankruptcy clerkship help your chances of subsequently clerking for a District Ct. or COA judge? Has anyone here made this move before?


You understand, of course, why people made this (very reasonable) assumption. In any event, your extreme defensiveness is unwarranted. If you have the creds, go get yourself a District Court clerkship. If you don't then keep posting here about how you have the creds. The choice is yours.


Yes, I understand because the nature of many people on TLS is to condescend.

It's also the nature of many people--on TLS and elsewhere--to make assumptions when someone poses a vague, abstract, hypothetical question. If that behavior rubs you the wrong way, an easy fix is to provide more relevant facts so that folks can offer meaningful responses. Good luck.

FascinatedWanderer
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Re: Bk clerkship > D.Ct. or COA clerkship?

Postby FascinatedWanderer » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:08 pm

donkeyteeth2017 wrote:
FascinatedWanderer wrote:
donkeyteeth2017 wrote:Does a bankruptcy clerkship help your chances of subsequently clerking for a District Ct. or COA judge? Has anyone here made this move before?


You understand, of course, why people made this (very reasonable) assumption. In any event, your extreme defensiveness is unwarranted. If you have the creds, go get yourself a District Court clerkship. If you don't then keep posting here about how you have the creds. The choice is yours.


Yes, I understand because the nature of many people on TLS is to condescend. Many people with the creds for a Dct clerkship still don't get one


This is also just tautologically false. By definition, only those with the credentials for a District Court clerkship get one.

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Ohiobumpkin
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Re: Bk clerkship > D.Ct. or COA clerkship?

Postby Ohiobumpkin » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:47 pm

Jesus, just apply and see what happens.

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Re: Bk clerkship > D.Ct. or COA clerkship?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:16 am

FascinatedWanderer wrote:
This is also just tautologically false. By definition, only those with the credentials for a District Court clerkship get one.


Only those with the credentials get a clerkship, but not all those with the credentials get a clerkship. Also, “tautologically false” is just not a thing.

FascinatedWanderer
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Re: Bk clerkship > D.Ct. or COA clerkship?

Postby FascinatedWanderer » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:
FascinatedWanderer wrote:
This is also just tautologically false. By definition, only those with the credentials for a District Court clerkship get one.


Only those with the credentials get a clerkship, but not all those with the credentials get a clerkship. Also, “tautologically false” is just not a thing.


Good catch. My logic was imprecise. Let me rephrase-- if you don't get a district court clerkship, by definition, you don't have the credentials for one.

Now seriously, go hustle and get what you're after. Pretty much everyone on this thread has already been where you want to go, but we didn't get there by getting a Napoleon complex about our credentials on a little backwater of the internet.

Yanky91
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Re: Bk clerkship > D.Ct. or COA clerkship?

Postby Yanky91 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:11 am

This doesn't mean that this happens all the time, but I know four bankruptcy clerks, and one of them did this. One did not have the credentials to do a COA clerkship, but got one (midwest circuit) after her clerkship. The other has amazing creds (coif from top 10 school) but just clerked for the bankruptcy court because he wanted bankruptcy. Like some have said, a bankruptcy clerkship is for people who want to do bankruptcy, but, you might be able to get out of bankruptcy and do another clerkship. There are just too many factors that this depends on to predict an outcome. Bottom line though, a bankruptcy clerkship is great for people who want to break into bankruptcy (worked for three people I know who went to great firms). Also it's not just DE, or SDNY. Northern IL and Central LA are also pretty good districts. Same for Texas people.

donkeyteeth2017
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Re: Bk clerkship > D.Ct. or COA clerkship?

Postby donkeyteeth2017 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:07 am

FascinatedWanderer wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
FascinatedWanderer wrote:
This is also just tautologically false. By definition, only those with the credentials for a District Court clerkship get one.


Only those with the credentials get a clerkship, but not all those with the credentials get a clerkship. Also, “tautologically false” is just not a thing.


Good catch. My logic was imprecise. Let me rephrase-- if you don't get a district court clerkship, by definition, you don't have the credentials for one.

Now seriously, go hustle and get what you're after. Pretty much everyone on this thread has already been where you want to go, but we didn't get there by getting a Napoleon complex about our credentials on a little backwater of the internet.


People don't get clerkships for all sorts of reasons, not just because they don't have the creds lol. I'm not gonna post my current position or my creds bc don't want to post info that will reveal who I am.

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radio1nowhere
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Re: Bk clerkship > D.Ct. or COA clerkship?

Postby radio1nowhere » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:12 pm

Luv threads where people ask questions and then jump to criticize answers they don't like

donkeyteeth2017
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Re: Bk clerkship > D.Ct. or COA clerkship?

Postby donkeyteeth2017 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:19 pm

Yanky91 wrote:This doesn't mean that this happens all the time, but I know four bankruptcy clerks, and one of them did this. One did not have the credentials to do a COA clerkship, but got one (midwest circuit) after her clerkship. The other has amazing creds (coif from top 10 school) but just clerked for the bankruptcy court because he wanted bankruptcy. Like some have said, a bankruptcy clerkship is for people who want to do bankruptcy, but, you might be able to get out of bankruptcy and do another clerkship. There are just too many factors that this depends on to predict an outcome. Bottom line though, a bankruptcy clerkship is great for people who want to break into bankruptcy (worked for three people I know who went to great firms). Also it's not just DE, or SDNY. Northern IL and Central LA are also pretty good districts. Same for Texas people.


Thanks for the detailed response




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