CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions Forum

(Seek and share information about clerkship applications, clerkship hiring timelines, and post-clerkship employment opportunities)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are sharing sensitive information about clerkship applications and clerkship hiring. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned."
User avatar
rpupkin

Platinum
Posts: 5653
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by rpupkin » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:top 5% non LR poster from before, and applying to competitive districts. is there a reason you chose CD/ND Cal over SDNY/DDC (aside from personal reasons (ties, etc.))? You mentioned having better credentials than typical SDNY/DDC clerks. I was advised to blanket SDNY, DDC before applying to other districts.
You seem to want to think about this stuff in an imaginary prestige vacuum. What do you want to do? Where do you want to practice?

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:42 pm

I wanted to preserve honors eligibility and clerking on DDC and SDNY right after 3L is pretty much impossible, and my circuit clerkship isn't until a later term.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:07 pm

Also CDCA and NDCA are major enough districts that they have national portability.

AdamDeMamp

New
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:41 pm

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by AdamDeMamp » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Also CDCA and NDCA are major enough districts that they have national portability.
Yeah but do they have as much portability? If I'm Joe Blow KHTEF partner, and I see a CDCal/NDCal clerk with SDNY or DDC credentials -- or better than that, even -- who didn't clerk on one of those two districts, I'm gonna be like "why should I hire this jabroni when I can hire someone who clerked on the more prestigious district, even with worse credentials."

user outed for anon abuse. if you're going to troll prestige whoring, go for it, but not anon.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Also CDCA and NDCA are major enough districts that they have national portability.
Yeah but do they have as much portability? If I'm Joe Blow KHTEF partner, and I see a CDCal/NDCal clerk with SDNY or DDC credentials -- or better than that, even -- who didn't clerk on one of those two districts, I'm gonna be like "why should I hire this jabroni when I can hire someone who clerked on the more prestigious district, even with worse credentials."
Could you at least make an effort to be amusing? Right now you're just being tiresome.

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


User avatar
radio1nowhere

Bronze
Posts: 467
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:01 pm

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by radio1nowhere » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:44 am

Anon fight! Anon fight!

User avatar
rpupkin

Platinum
Posts: 5653
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by rpupkin » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:51 am

radio1nowhere wrote:Anon fight! Anon fight!
I've lost track of the anons. There's OP anon, "top 5% non LR poster" anon, SCOTUS-gunner anon, "I want to preserve honors eligibility" anon . . . the list goes on.

Maybe this is like Fight Club: we'll learn at the end of the thread that the bickering anons are all the same poster.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse

Diamond
Posts: 29293
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by A. Nony Mouse » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:40 am

:lol: they are not. I outed the jabroni poster because trolling doesn't get to be anon. SCOTUS gunner may just be oblivious, too early to tell.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:26 pm

I'm bored of working again so happy to take questions again for a little while.

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:20 pm

is it true that certain clerkships on NDCal/CDCal are "less valuable" because of the reputation of the judge- I'm thinking here of Real, Wilson, Anderson? or would you recommend just blanketing both courts and not worrying about that?

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:is it true that certain clerkships on NDCal/CDCal are "less valuable" because of the reputation of the judge- I'm thinking here of Real, Wilson, Anderson? or would you recommend just blanketing both courts and not worrying about that?
Not OP, but I clerked in C.D. Cal. My career co clerk who had come from private practice said that a clerkship with Real was the only federal clerkship he could think of that would definitely be a net negative at his firm and others he worked with.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:is it true that certain clerkships on NDCal/CDCal are "less valuable" because of the reputation of the judge- I'm thinking here of Real, Wilson, Anderson? or would you recommend just blanketing both courts and not worrying about that?
Definitely true for Real. Less true for Anderson, but both seem to have to draw from top 30% at Loyola.

Wasn't aware that Wilson had a negative rep. His clerks tend to have the strongest paper credentials on the court.

User avatar
rpupkin

Platinum
Posts: 5653
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by rpupkin » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Wasn't aware that Wilson had a negative rep. His clerks tend to have the strongest paper credentials on the court.
(Wilson clerk)

Register now!

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

It's still FREE!


Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:20 pm

I was just going off a quick google, but probably that's biased towards only surfacing his highest profile former clerks.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:27 pm

Not OP but a somewhat recent N.D. Cal. clerk happy to answer questions about applications and working at that court.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Not OP but a somewhat recent N.D. Cal. clerk happy to answer questions about applications and working at that court.
Just outside of the top 25% at a T14, LR, lots of prior work experience. Any chance in the N.D. Cal?

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not OP but a somewhat recent N.D. Cal. clerk happy to answer questions about applications and working at that court.
Just outside of the top 25% at a T14, LR, lots of prior work experience. Any chance in the N.D. Cal?
For certain judges yes. My judge would've considered you with those numbers, though you'd be one of 100 or so candidate with those stats and it's a bit of luck whether we as clerks would've liked your resume enough to pull it from the pile. In our chambers, work experience before law school might have gotten you over that hump, or a call from a professor, or something in your interests section that gelled with judge or us clerks. In general, clerks in my judge's chambers were strong HYS/Berkeley students, tippy-top Hastings/Davis students, or top 10 percent T14 students.

You'd have better luck with 1-2 years of experience at a firm, even with pre-LS work experience.

Get unlimited access to all forums and topics

Register now!

I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...


Person1111

Bronze
Posts: 496
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:10 pm

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Person1111 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:is it true that certain clerkships on NDCal/CDCal are "less valuable" because of the reputation of the judge- I'm thinking here of Real, Wilson, Anderson? or would you recommend just blanketing both courts and not worrying about that?
I practice in LA. Clerking for Real would be a net negative. Clerking for Anderson would raise some eyebrows, but it would probably still be a net positive and I would mostly just feel bad for the poor clerk. Clerking for an older, curmudgeonly judge like Wilson (or Walter, Carter, etc.) is not even in the same ballpark as clerking for Real or Anderson.
Last edited by Person1111 on Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:58 pm

hlsperson1111 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:is it true that certain clerkships on NDCal/CDCal are "less valuable" because of the reputation of the judge- I'm thinking here of Real, Wilson, Anderson? or would you recommend just blanketing both courts and not worrying about that?
I practice in LA. Clerking for Real would be a net negative. Clerking for Anderson would raise some eyebrows, but it would probably still be a net positive and I would mostly just feel bad for the poor clerk. Clerking for an older, curmudgeonly judge like Wilson (like Walter, Carter, etc.) is not even in the same ballpark as clerking for Real or Anderson.
This is accurate. Many of those older judges (especially the ones specifically mentioned above) are actually very well regarded. The lawyers who think they're bad judges tend to be state court hacks who can't really handle federal court procedures and litigation generally.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:06 am

Former N.D.Cal/C.D.Cal clerk, happy to answer questions too.

Having worked in LA for a few years pre-clerkship, I can confirm that Real is the only judge that will actually hurt your reputation. Even Anderson isn't a negative when it comes to hiring and the other judges, curmudgeonly as they may be, are seen as positives. In fact, clerking for one of the older judges like Walter or Wilson is seen as particularly helpful because it's good to have someone at the firm who understands their idiosyncrasies.

Also, ditto to whoever talked about the Wilson clerks' paper credentials, although they were pretty anti-social my year so didn't get to know them too well. Wilson (like Otero and Bernal usually) seems to stick pretty strongly to his 10% cut-off unlike Lu or Snyder or O'Connell.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:13 pm

Q for ND Cal clerks: Fmr. CA9 clerk now working at SG/KVN/W&C-type firm. HYS with ~Top 1/3 grades. I'm one year into the firm; let's assume I applied months from now, such that I'd be coming to the court w/2+ yrs work experience and CA9. Competitive?

Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.

Register now, it's still FREE!


Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:32 pm

Any sense whether SF Lit. firms/practices have a preference for N.D. clerks from SF chambers vs. San Jose chambers? I can't imagine it would make a huge difference, but I also can't tell from the outside how distinct the San Jose / SF worlds are in terms of hiring.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:38 pm

What grades does one need from YS for CDCal/NDCal?

User avatar
bruinfan10

Silver
Posts: 658
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:25 am

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by bruinfan10 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:58 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Wasn't aware that Wilson had a negative rep. His clerks tend to have the strongest paper credentials on the court.
(Wilson clerk)
nailed it.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: CDCal/NDCal Clerk Taking Questions

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What grades does one need from YS for CDCal/NDCal?
May not be helpful and discount as appropriate: I’m a YLS grad who clerked (recently) on CA9; did interviews with NDCA and CDCA judges before accepting 9th Cir clerkship. Have also had many conversations with clerks involved in hiring for a few of these judges. Please don’t quote the below.

Anecdotally, grade competitiveness will depend a lot on the judge. For the more “prestigious” judges—Chhabria and Koh in particular, and maybe to a lesser extent Fitzgerald and Kronstadt in CDCA—you basically need the same grades as you would for a desirable 9th Cir judge. (Indeed, my sense is that most of those judges’ clerks also clerk for desirable 9th Cir judges.) This is all a bit mixed up now that hiring is happening so early. If you’re applying from YLS after 1L spring, my sense is that 0-1 Ps would make you competitive for all of these prestigious judges. If applying later, I would want to have roughly 2/3 or better Hs.

For the slightly less “prestigious” but still plenty desirable judges (think Seeborg, Tiger, Orrick, Birotte, etc.), my sense is that as long as you’re very roughly in the range of 50% Hs, you’re competitive if not a lock.

For other judges, things will look like they do for less prestigious Circuit/District clerkships generally from YLS: lots of luck, professor/geographic ties matter, work experience might help, but as long as you are making a halfway reasonable effort grades-wise (say, 1/3 Hs or better) you’re a live candidate.

All the “prestige” distinctions above reflect a rough approximation of YLS herd wisdom and shouldn’t be taken too seriously. There are judges listed above I wouldn’t want to clerk for and plenty of judges not listed who would be awesome people to clerk for, great mentors, etc. And generally, take this with a big grain of salt; this reflects my anecdotal experience and conversations with clerks.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


Post Reply Post Anonymous Reply  

Return to “Judicial Clerkships”