Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

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Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:55 pm

I offer advice about the clerkship process to mentees at my T14 law school. A number of classmates and professors have warned me to steer female students, in particular, away from Judge Kozinski. They have told me that while he can be cruel to all of his clerks, he sexually harasses his female clerks, for example, pressuring them to wear revealing outfits and making comments of a sexual nature about their appearances. I have additionally been warned that Judge Kozinski is explicitly homophobic, and so I am urging my LGBT mentees not to apply to him either. (To be clear, these strike me as behaviors that, if true, should deter all of my mentees from applying to clerk for Judge Kozinski, but I understand that these types of behaviors have a more direct effect on some individuals).

Given that the Judge-clerk relationship puts the clerk in such close quarters with a very powerful authority figure, are there other judges who I should be warning my mentees, particularly my female or LGBT mentees, to stay away from because of their reputations for harassing law clerks?

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rpupkin
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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby rpupkin » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:10 pm

This strikes me as an excellent use of TLS. Let's all use the anonymous posting feature to spread vicious third-hand rumors about federal judges. What fun!

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Ronan
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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby Ronan » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:24 pm

I heard Judge Gorsuch thinks women abuse maternity leave at big law firms. Something to keep in mind...

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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby RaceJudicata » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I offer advice about the clerkship process to mentees at my T14 law school. A number of classmates and professors have warned me to steer female students, in particular, away from Judge Kozinski. They have told me that while he can be cruel to all of his clerks, he sexually harasses his female clerks, for example, pressuring them to wear revealing outfits and making comments of a sexual nature about their appearances. I have additionally been warned that Judge Kozinski is explicitly homophobic, and so I am urging my LGBT mentees not to apply to him either. (To be clear, these strike me as behaviors that, if true, should deter all of my mentees from applying to clerk for Judge Kozinski, but I understand that these types of behaviors have a more direct effect on some individuals).

Given that the Judge-clerk relationship puts the clerk in such close quarters with a very powerful authority figure, are there other judges who I should be warning my mentees, particularly my female or LGBT mentees, to stay away from because of their reputations for harassing law clerks?


Jesus. Brave, brave anon.

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bearsfan23
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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby bearsfan23 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:56 pm

rpupkin wrote:This strikes me as an excellent use of TLS. Let's all use the anonymous posting feature to spread vicious third-hand rumors about federal judges. What fun!


So people can only discuss judges and how they treat clerks non-anon? Is that your point here?

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rpupkin
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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby rpupkin » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:03 pm

bearsfan23 wrote:
rpupkin wrote:This strikes me as an excellent use of TLS. Let's all use the anonymous posting feature to spread vicious third-hand rumors about federal judges. What fun!


So people can only discuss judges and how they treat clerks non-anon? Is that your point here?

Look, if a poster wants to share a personal story about an experience with a judge, then I think the use of the anonymous feature would be appropriate (though, if the story were a damaging one, I would hope that the mods would make some effort to assess whether the poster was actually in a position to have had the experience).

But I think a damaging third-hand rumor in the passive voice--like "I have been warned that Judge Kozinski is explicitly homophobic"--is a different kettle of fish. It probably shouldn't be posted at all. And if it is to be posted, I don't see the need for anonymity.
Last edited by rpupkin on Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:07 pm

(As if most applicants even have to worry about getting hired by Kozinski...)

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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby Hikikomorist » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:08 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:(As if most applicants even have to worry about getting hired by Kozinski...)

Interesting.

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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:12 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:(As if most applicants even have to worry about getting hired by Kozinski...)

Interesting.

:?: I was being flip, but I just meant he's an extremely selective judge. It's kind of like saying, "I've heard that Justice Alito is terrible to work for" (totally made up example, he's probably lovely) - theoretically useful information (leaving aside the anon/third-hand issue) but most people aren't getting SCOTUS clerkships so it's not really a risk.

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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby Hikikomorist » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:21 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:(As if most applicants even have to worry about getting hired by Kozinski...)

Interesting.

:?: I was being flip, but I just meant he's an extremely selective judge. It's kind of like saying, "I've heard that Justice Alito is terrible to work for" (totally made up example, he's probably lovely) - theoretically useful information but most people aren't getting SCOTUS clerkships so it's not really a risk.

It was the choice to be dismissive that I thought was interesting.

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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby mjb447 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:28 pm

You'd offer serious clerkship advice based on TLS hearsay? Your lucky mentees.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:28 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:(As if most applicants even have to worry about getting hired by Kozinski...)

Interesting.

:?: I was being flip, but I just meant he's an extremely selective judge. It's kind of like saying, "I've heard that Justice Alito is terrible to work for" (totally made up example, he's probably lovely) - theoretically useful information but most people aren't getting SCOTUS clerkships so it's not really a risk.

It was the choice to be dismissive that I thought was interesting.

Is that a passive-aggressive way of saying I should be concerned about third-hand anon info because it alleges sexism/homophobia?

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nothingtosee
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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby nothingtosee » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I offer advice about the clerkship process to mentees at my T14 law school. A number of classmates and professors have warned me to steer female students, in particular, away from Judge Kozinski. They have told me that while he can be cruel to all of his clerks, he sexually harasses his female clerks, for example, pressuring them to wear revealing outfits and making comments of a sexual nature about their appearances. I have additionally been warned that Judge Kozinski is explicitly homophobic, and so I am urging my LGBT mentees not to apply to him either. (To be clear, these strike me as behaviors that, if true, should deter all of my mentees from applying to clerk for Judge Kozinski, but I understand that these types of behaviors have a more direct effect on some individuals).

Given that the Judge-clerk relationship puts the clerk in such close quarters with a very powerful authority figure, are there other judges who I should be warning my mentees, particularly my female or LGBT mentees, to stay away from because of their reputations for harassing law clerks?


So for one, mentee is a barbarism. Mentor is a character - Telemachus's guide. Like Hector. It's not noun-er. It's not like lessor/lessee.

For two, if your proteges have a chance with Kozinski, they are probably on tls reading this exact post.

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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby Barrred » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:31 pm

inb4: "avoid anyone nominated by a Republican president"

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grand inquisitor
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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby grand inquisitor » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:33 pm

this is gonna be my new go-to. i had the kozinski clerkship in the bag but my homosexuality kept me from accepting.

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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:50 pm

To be fair, OP is correct that Kozinski's chambers are full of horrors (he yells at his clerks all the time; they are required to be there until 1 AM most days even when there isn't work for them to do; he intentionally instills competition amongst them over who he will recommend to SCOTUS; and sexual harassment allegations have been repeated by enough people that I'd think it more than reasonable to be wary). I get that TLS is a tricky spot to go for for this kind of information, but given the culture of silence about judge behavior that exists in most circles (especially for judges less high profile than the Koz), there aren't many other sources besides anonymous internet messaging.

Koz's feeding power seems to be waning a lot incidentally. Probably because there's been enough whispering to cause people with options to look elsewhere.

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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:To be fair, OP is correct that Kozinski's chambers are full of horrors (he yells at his clerks all the time; they are required to be there until 1 AM most days even when there isn't work for them to do; he intentionally instills competition amongst them over who he will recommend to SCOTUS; and sexual harassment allegations have been repeated by enough people that I'd think it more than reasonable to be wary). I get that TLS is a tricky spot to go for for this kind of information, but given the culture of silence about judge behavior that exists in most circles (especially for judges less high profile than the Koz), there aren't many other sources besides anonymous internet messaging.

Koz's feeding power seems to be waning a lot incidentally. Probably because there's been enough whispering to cause people with options to look elsewhere.


no doubt Kozinski's chambers have a bad rap and he's done some weird shit (http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-kozi ... story.html), but the last statement is simply ridiculous. No way to discern a feeder pattern, especially not because of his practices in chambers.

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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby lawlorbust » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:33 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:To be fair, OP is correct that Kozinski's chambers are full of horrors (he yells at his clerks all the time; they are required to be there until 1 AM most days even when there isn't work for them to do; he intentionally instills competition amongst them over who he will recommend to SCOTUS; and sexual harassment allegations have been repeated by enough people that I'd think it more than reasonable to be wary). I get that TLS is a tricky spot to go for for this kind of information, but given the culture of silence about judge behavior that exists in most circles (especially for judges less high profile than the Koz), there aren't many other sources besides anonymous internet messaging.

Koz's feeding power seems to be waning a lot incidentally. Probably because there's been enough whispering to cause people with options to look elsewhere.


no doubt Kozinski's chambers have a bad rap and he's done some weird shit (http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-kozi ... story.html), but the last statement is simply ridiculous. No way to discern a feeder pattern, especially not because of his practices in chambers.


Especially since he's done weird shit SINCE FOREVER.

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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby lavarman84 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:19 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:To be fair, OP is correct that Kozinski's chambers are full of horrors (he yells at his clerks all the time; they are required to be there until 1 AM most days even when there isn't work for them to do; he intentionally instills competition amongst them over who he will recommend to SCOTUS; and sexual harassment allegations have been repeated by enough people that I'd think it more than reasonable to be wary). I get that TLS is a tricky spot to go for for this kind of information, but given the culture of silence about judge behavior that exists in most circles (especially for judges less high profile than the Koz), there aren't many other sources besides anonymous internet messaging.

Koz's feeding power seems to be waning a lot incidentally. Probably because there's been enough whispering to cause people with options to look elsewhere.


no doubt Kozinski's chambers have a bad rap and he's done some weird shit (http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-kozi ... story.html), but the last statement is simply ridiculous. No way to discern a feeder pattern, especially not because of his practices in chambers.


How can a guy who seems like such a zany weird fella (like a class clown in a way) be such a jerk to his clerks? It just doesn't feel like it fits with that personality. I've read the horror stories, so I'm not doubting y'all. It's just so weird.

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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:25 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:To be fair, OP is correct that Kozinski's chambers are full of horrors (he yells at his clerks all the time; they are required to be there until 1 AM most days even when there isn't work for them to do; he intentionally instills competition amongst them over who he will recommend to SCOTUS; and sexual harassment allegations have been repeated by enough people that I'd think it more than reasonable to be wary). I get that TLS is a tricky spot to go for for this kind of information, but given the culture of silence about judge behavior that exists in most circles (especially for judges less high profile than the Koz), there aren't many other sources besides anonymous internet messaging.

Koz's feeding power seems to be waning a lot incidentally. Probably because there's been enough whispering to cause people with options to look elsewhere.


no doubt Kozinski's chambers have a bad rap and he's done some weird shit (http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-kozi ... story.html), but the last statement is simply ridiculous. No way to discern a feeder pattern, especially not because of his practices in chambers.


I'm the previous anon.

There is a way to discern a feeder pattern. Kozinski placed just one clerk in October Term 2016 and zero in October Term 2017. He used to send 1-2 or more per year. He has good years on occasion (I think 2 in 2014?) but his pull is definitely down from the glory days.

You're right that my last statement is maybe a touch speculative, but it's not ridiculous. Of course being such a dick that highly-qualified potential clerks turn you down will, when you have to push second-string people to the Court later on, hurt your numbers. At *least* on the margin.

Also @ other poster: it takes awhile for information about a judge like this to percolate out. As he continues to burn more people from more schools, and as people, having heard others talk, become more willing to talk themselves, of course word of his bad behavior is more common now than it was before. Forever ago or even 5 years ago is not a good comparison.

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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:31 pm

I knew about Kozinski's horrible reputation in 2010 when I was in law school. He's been hiring clerks for way longer than that. It's not a recent revelation at all.

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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby HillandHollow » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:32 pm

lawman84 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:To be fair, OP is correct that Kozinski's chambers are full of horrors (he yells at his clerks all the time; they are required to be there until 1 AM most days even when there isn't work for them to do; he intentionally instills competition amongst them over who he will recommend to SCOTUS; and sexual harassment allegations have been repeated by enough people that I'd think it more than reasonable to be wary). I get that TLS is a tricky spot to go for for this kind of information, but given the culture of silence about judge behavior that exists in most circles (especially for judges less high profile than the Koz), there aren't many other sources besides anonymous internet messaging.

Koz's feeding power seems to be waning a lot incidentally. Probably because there's been enough whispering to cause people with options to look elsewhere.


no doubt Kozinski's chambers have a bad rap and he's done some weird shit (http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-kozi ... story.html), but the last statement is simply ridiculous. No way to discern a feeder pattern, especially not because of his practices in chambers.


How can a guy who seems like such a zany weird fella (like a class clown in a way) be such a jerk to his clerks? It just doesn't feel like it fits with that personality. I've read the horror stories, so I'm not doubting y'all. It's just so weird.


Not a comment about Kozinski, but generally: unchecked/stroked ego can do some shitty things to people.

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rpupkin
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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby rpupkin » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:42 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I knew about Kozinski's horrible reputation in 2010 when I was in law school. He's been hiring clerks for way longer than that. It's not a recent revelation at all.

Same here. And to be clear, that reputation took the form of "guy who made you work long hours and who was unreasonably demanding," not "blatant homophobe" or "guy who makes his female clerks wear skimpy outfits."

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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:57 pm

I had a professor who wanted to send my materials to Kozinski, but I declined because I had heard that the clerkship there was an unnecessarily rough experience. However, like the last couple people said, that was much more about the hours and competition, and because it sounds like Kozinski can just be a jerk to his clerks, than about anything else.

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Re: Judges who female or LGBT law clerks should avoid

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:03 pm

He's also got some interesting taste in videos and some odd ideas about where to store those videos.




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