2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:33 pm

Jones Day's DC office has just started interviewing clerks.

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Current AIII clerk applying for position at biglaw and similar ilk firms in large markets. My question is this, how many years of credit should I push for at a lock-step firm coming out of the clerkship in fall 2017?

I have a "non-traditional" resume in that I graduated in 2012, worked for a boutique lit shop in a secondary market for 1.5 years, hung my own shingle/consulted for a year, and worked for a 40 lawyer firm for another 1.5 years before clerking. It is likely that most of the big firms will have never even heard of my previous firms, but we did work with and against some of them. My lit experience is solid: managed my cases, discovery, many depositions, arguing motions, directing/crossing witnesses in bench trials, prep for jury trials, etc.

I am assuming that my year of self-employment will not be considered. I am assuming I will get credit for my year of clerking. That leaves me between a second year and a fourth year. Anyone have insight on the grey area?

Thanks in advance


I would be surprised if biglaw would be interested given your intervening solo practice and midlaw practice. But if you get an offer, I wouldn't expect more than a year or two of seniority.

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:46 pm

I would be surprised if biglaw would be interested given your intervening solo practice and midlaw practice. But if you get an offer, I wouldn't expect more than a year or two of seniority.[/quote]

Care to elaborate on either point?

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby los blancos » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Current AIII clerk applying for position at biglaw and similar ilk firms in large markets. My question is this, how many years of credit should I push for at a lock-step firm coming out of the clerkship in fall 2017?

I have a "non-traditional" resume in that I graduated in 2012, worked for a boutique lit shop in a secondary market for 1.5 years, hung my own shingle/consulted for a year, and worked for a 40 lawyer firm for another 1.5 years before clerking. It is likely that most of the big firms will have never even heard of my previous firms, but we did work with and against some of them. My lit experience is solid: managed my cases, discovery, many depositions, arguing motions, directing/crossing witnesses in bench trials, prep for jury trials, etc.

I am assuming that my year of self-employment will not be considered. I am assuming I will get credit for my year of clerking. That leaves me between a second year and a fourth year. Anyone have insight on the grey area?

Thanks in advance


I would be surprised if biglaw would be interested given your intervening solo practice and midlaw practice. But if you get an offer, I wouldn't expect more than a year or two of seniority.


This seems kind of dumb.

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby Moonraker » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How long can one expect firms to hold offers during this process?


Completely varies by firm.

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:19 am

Haven't heard a word from Kirkland, Latham, Sidley or McDermott in Chi since submitting a month or so ago.

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:Haven't heard a word from Kirkland, Latham, Sidley or McDermott in Chi since submitting a month or so ago.


Same. Have screeners with two other comparable firms, though.

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Haven't heard a word from Kirkland, Latham, Sidley or McDermott in Chi since submitting a month or so ago.


Same. Have screeners with two other comparable firms, though.


Mayer and Winston?

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby RaceJudicata » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Haven't heard a word from Kirkland, Latham, Sidley or McDermott in Chi since submitting a month or so ago.


Same. Have screeners with two other comparable firms, though.


Mayer and Winston?


Good use of anon.

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:I would be surprised if biglaw would be interested given your intervening solo practice and midlaw practice. But if you get an offer, I wouldn't expect more than a year or two of seniority.
Care to elaborate on either point?


I'm not the previous annon, but I thought I'd add to his thoughts. I'm an Art III clerk, and my co-clerk is a class of 2012 grad. She's had various experience before her clerkship and she is finding it almost impossible to get any biglaw interviews. Firms in the major markets do not seem to have openings for the mid/senior level positions that they'd be looking to fill with a post-clerkship candidate. Those senior positions are more for poaching from other biglaw firms and usually say things to the effect of they want you to have a few years of experience in the same practice area at a competitor firm of the same size.

My co-clerk has started approaching firms by offering to come in as a first year, in hopes that it helps her chances. She's been a bit more successful since she started this approach, and is at least having conversations and interviews. Some firms find it weird though and only go by graduation year - so those firms are automatic no's.

Bottom line is, firms plan for clerkship candidates who are one to two years out of law school. After that, it gets a bit difficult. If you manage to get yourself an interview, don't complicate it trying to negotiate. Take it, run with it, and be happy.

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:53 pm

More quiet today. Had really hoped that we'd start to see more movement at the end of February.

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:More quiet today. Had really hoped that we'd start to see more movement at the end of February.

Don't know when to assume despair at this point. I want to apply to more firms, but I am assuming they're all full or not hiring at this point.

It's probably time to start thinking about reasonable next steps if no firms bite. The obvious solution is for all of us to band together and make our own rockstar firm, ;)

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby clerk1251 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:More quiet today. Had really hoped that we'd start to see more movement at the end of February.

Don't know when to assume despair at this point. I want to apply to more firms, but I am assuming they're all full or not hiring at this point.

It's probably time to start thinking about reasonable next steps if no firms bite. The obvious solution is for all of us to band together and make our own rockstar firm, ;)


This is a brilliant idea! I'm game.

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:00 pm

clerk1251 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:More quiet today. Had really hoped that we'd start to see more movement at the end of February.

Don't know when to assume despair at this point. I want to apply to more firms, but I am assuming they're all full or not hiring at this point.

It's probably time to start thinking about reasonable next steps if no firms bite. The obvious solution is for all of us to band together and make our own rockstar firm, ;)


This is a brilliant idea! I'm game.


The name of the firm will be the three coolest sounding last names in the bunch.

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
clerk1251 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:More quiet today. Had really hoped that we'd start to see more movement at the end of February.

Don't know when to assume despair at this point. I want to apply to more firms, but I am assuming they're all full or not hiring at this point.

It's probably time to start thinking about reasonable next steps if no firms bite. The obvious solution is for all of us to band together and make our own rockstar firm, ;)


This is a brilliant idea! I'm game.


The name of the firm will be the three coolest sounding last names in the bunch.

Will we work remotely? Or pick a super cool location?

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby clerk1251 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
clerk1251 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:More quiet today. Had really hoped that we'd start to see more movement at the end of February.

Don't know when to assume despair at this point. I want to apply to more firms, but I am assuming they're all full or not hiring at this point.

It's probably time to start thinking about reasonable next steps if no firms bite. The obvious solution is for all of us to band together and make our own rockstar firm, ;)


This is a brilliant idea! I'm game.


The name of the firm will be the three coolest sounding last names in the bunch.

Will we work remotely? Or pick a super cool location?


Offices all over the country! Give some off these boutiques a run for their money!

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I would be surprised if biglaw would be interested given your intervening solo practice and midlaw practice. But if you get an offer, I wouldn't expect more than a year or two of seniority.
Care to elaborate on either point?


I'm not the previous annon, but I thought I'd add to his thoughts. I'm an Art III clerk, and my co-clerk is a class of 2012 grad. She's had various experience before her clerkship and she is finding it almost impossible to get any biglaw interviews. Firms in the major markets do not seem to have openings for the mid/senior level positions that they'd be looking to fill with a post-clerkship candidate. Those senior positions are more for poaching from other biglaw firms and usually say things to the effect of they want you to have a few years of experience in the same practice area at a competitor firm of the same size.

My co-clerk has started approaching firms by offering to come in as a first year, in hopes that it helps her chances. She's been a bit more successful since she started this approach, and is at least having conversations and interviews. Some firms find it weird though and only go by graduation year - so those firms are automatic no's.

Bottom line is, firms plan for clerkship candidates who are one to two years out of law school. After that, it gets a bit difficult. If you manage to get yourself an interview, don't complicate it trying to negotiate. Take it, run with it, and be happy.


Can you share any details (non-identifiable) about your co-clerk? Law school & rank, pre-clerkship experience, current clerkship (beyond Art. III), etc.?

To offer an anecdote on the other side, I know someone who was hired by a major-market, respected biglaw firm post-clerkship, more than 5 years out of law school, and with no prior firm experience, biglaw or otherwise.

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Don't know when to assume despair at this point. I want to apply to more firms, but I am assuming they're all full or not hiring at this point.

Don't assume anything. Keep applying. Don't reject yourself, let them reject you. You have no idea what their timelines are or when/if their needs will change.

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I would be surprised if biglaw would be interested given your intervening solo practice and midlaw practice. But if you get an offer, I wouldn't expect more than a year or two of seniority.
Care to elaborate on either point?


I'm not the previous annon, but I thought I'd add to his thoughts. I'm an Art III clerk, and my co-clerk is a class of 2012 grad. She's had various experience before her clerkship and she is finding it almost impossible to get any biglaw interviews. Firms in the major markets do not seem to have openings for the mid/senior level positions that they'd be looking to fill with a post-clerkship candidate. Those senior positions are more for poaching from other biglaw firms and usually say things to the effect of they want you to have a few years of experience in the same practice area at a competitor firm of the same size.

My co-clerk has started approaching firms by offering to come in as a first year, in hopes that it helps her chances. She's been a bit more successful since she started this approach, and is at least having conversations and interviews. Some firms find it weird though and only go by graduation year - so those firms are automatic no's.

Bottom line is, firms plan for clerkship candidates who are one to two years out of law school. After that, it gets a bit difficult. If you manage to get yourself an interview, don't complicate it trying to negotiate. Take it, run with it, and be happy.


Can you share any details (non-identifiable) about your co-clerk? Law school & rank, pre-clerkship experience, current clerkship (beyond Art. III), etc.?

To offer an anecdote on the other side, I know someone who was hired by a major-market, respected biglaw firm post-clerkship, more than 5 years out of law school, and with no prior firm experience, biglaw or otherwise.


My point was not that it is impossible, only that it is a lot harder, and certainly atypical. As you can see from this whole thread, it is hard enough for people even coming straight out of school, or with a year or two at biglaw and looking to go to a different biglaw firm post-clerkship. Your focus should be on landing an interview and getting an offer, not on how to negotiate what class year you will be.

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I have an offer from a firm in a tiny, but very desirable market. Can I use this as leverage to get firms I've already interviewed with in a major market to expedite their decision about my application? Or will the big market firms not care that I have an offer in an unrelated market?


Might speed things along, but it's unlikely to give you a lot of leverage w/r/t getting an offer. Couldn't hurt.

Sped things along right into a rejection. I am super disappointed, and definitely not repeating the same tactic for the other firms I interviewed with in the major market. :oops:

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I have an offer from a firm in a tiny, but very desirable market. Can I use this as leverage to get firms I've already interviewed with in a major market to expedite their decision about my application? Or will the big market firms not care that I have an offer in an unrelated market?


Might speed things along, but it's unlikely to give you a lot of leverage w/r/t getting an offer. Couldn't hurt.

Sped things along right into a rejection. I am super disappointed, and definitely not repeating the same tactic for the other firms I interviewed with in the major market. :oops:


Oof. Sorry to hear that.

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:43 pm

I interviewed with a firm three weeks ago, and was told that they would be making decisions after the 17th. Would it be annoying if I emailed the recruiter asking for a status update? I have an offer elsewhere, but I'd rather be at this firm. I also don't want to rush them into a decision if it will cut against me.

I'm thinking a generic status update request with no mention of the offer until I know where I stand. Thoughts?

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby clerk1251 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I interviewed with a firm three weeks ago, and was told that they would be making decisions after the 17th. Would it be annoying if I emailed the recruiter asking for a status update? I have an offer elsewhere, but I'd rather be at this firm. I also don't want to rush them into a decision if it will cut against me.

I'm thinking a generic status update request with no mention of the offer until I know where I stand. Thoughts?


I think it is totally appropriate to email them, just following up, inquiring as to an updated timeline for when they anticipate making their decision. I think mentioning your offer would also be perfectly fine in order to get an affirmative decision one way or another. I can't imagine that mentioning your offer will make them change their mind of however they felt previously. Congrats on the offer, and good luck!

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:14 pm

clerk1251 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I interviewed with a firm three weeks ago, and was told that they would be making decisions after the 17th. Would it be annoying if I emailed the recruiter asking for a status update? I have an offer elsewhere, but I'd rather be at this firm. I also don't want to rush them into a decision if it will cut against me.

I'm thinking a generic status update request with no mention of the offer until I know where I stand. Thoughts?


I think it is totally appropriate to email them, just following up, inquiring as to an updated timeline for when they anticipate making their decision. I think mentioning your offer would also be perfectly fine in order to get an affirmative decision one way or another. I can't imagine that mentioning your offer will make them change their mind of however they felt previously. Congrats on the offer, and good luck!

Thank you! I feel so awkward with these emails. Such short, stilted sentences. Hard to be a person sometimes, you know?

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Re: 2016-17 Post-Clerkship Hiring Thread

Postby mjb447 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:15 pm

clerk1251 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I interviewed with a firm three weeks ago, and was told that they would be making decisions after the 17th. Would it be annoying if I emailed the recruiter asking for a status update? I have an offer elsewhere, but I'd rather be at this firm. I also don't want to rush them into a decision if it will cut against me.

I'm thinking a generic status update request with no mention of the offer until I know where I stand. Thoughts?


I think it is totally appropriate to email them, just following up, inquiring as to an updated timeline for when they anticipate making their decision. I think mentioning your offer would also be perfectly fine in order to get an affirmative decision one way or another. I can't imagine that mentioning your offer will make them change their mind of however they felt previously. Congrats on the offer, and good luck!

Yeah, I'd probably mention the offer. If nothing else, it explains why you're asking for an update: waiting until the 22nd or later isn't really a long unexplained delay if they told you they're making decisions "after the 17th," but it's a different matter if you're sitting on an offer. (And I agree that mentioning the offer isn't going to affect them one way or another: worse case is that they either reject you sooner instead of waiting a little while or they tell you that you're not going to hear back for a while.)



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