classes relevance for future clerkship

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umichman

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classes relevance for future clerkship

Postby umichman » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:04 am

If I want to get a clerkship down the line in a not so competitive spot, will the classes i take make a big impact? or is it more based on my work experience in 2-3 years?

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: classes relevance for future clerkship

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:37 am

It will depend on the judge. Some judges look for specific courses (like evidence, fed courts), but many - I would suggest most, but there's no way to measure - won't. I would say that if you're looking after a couple of years working, that's going to matter more than your specific courses.

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BVest

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Re: classes relevance for future clerkship

Postby BVest » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:03 am

I will say that if your work doesn't produce a good writing sample you can use, you might consider something that will (clinic, advanced brief writing, etc.; some schools also offer advanced writing courses for clerkships where you practice writing bench memos and opinions).
Last edited by BVest on Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: classes relevance for future clerkship

Postby Nebby » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:22 am

Evidence
Fed courts
Conflicts
Admin
Crim Pro

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: classes relevance for future clerkship

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:58 am

Nebby wrote:Evidence
Fed courts
Conflicts
Admin
Crim Pro

Dude, that's not answering the question.

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Re: classes relevance for future clerkship

Postby Nebby » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:02 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Nebby wrote:Evidence
Fed courts
Conflicts
Admin
Crim Pro

Dude, that's not answering the question.

Are you sure? :wink:

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: classes relevance for future clerkship

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:05 pm

Nebby wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Nebby wrote:Evidence
Fed courts
Conflicts
Admin
Crim Pro

Dude, that's not answering the question.

Are you sure? :wink:

He didn't ask which classes are relevant to clerking, just whether the classes he takes will matter or whether working will matter more. So not sure how listing classes answers that.

Nebby

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Re: classes relevance for future clerkship

Postby Nebby » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:06 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Nebby wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Nebby wrote:Evidence
Fed courts
Conflicts
Admin
Crim Pro

Dude, that's not answering the question.

Are you sure? :wink:

He didn't ask which classes are relevant to clerking, just whether the classes he takes will matter or whether working will matter more. So not sure how listing classes answers that.

Okay fine I read the thread title and thought it was a poorly worded question

umichman

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Re: classes relevance for future clerkship

Postby umichman » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:38 pm

Nebby wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Nebby wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Nebby wrote:Evidence
Fed courts
Conflicts
Admin
Crim Pro

Dude, that's not answering the question.

Are you sure? :wink:

He didn't ask which classes are relevant to clerking, just whether the classes he takes will matter or whether working will matter more. So not sure how listing classes answers that.

Okay fine I read the thread title and thought it was a poorly worded question


I'll be in a practice where i will do a substantial amount of brief writing. In reality i want to have a chill third year adn the evidence class is Friday at 8:30am so I am hoping people will say that it will not have long term harm.

umichman

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Re: classes relevance for future clerkship

Postby umichman » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:39 pm

Nebby wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Nebby wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Nebby wrote:Evidence
Fed courts
Conflicts
Admin
Crim Pro

Dude, that's not answering the question.

Are you sure? :wink:

He didn't ask which classes are relevant to clerking, just whether the classes he takes will matter or whether working will matter more. So not sure how listing classes answers that.

Okay fine I read the thread title and thought it was a poorly worded question


I agree, poorly worded question. I appreciate the feedback so far though.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: classes relevance for future clerkship

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:48 pm

To be honest I think evidence was probably the single most helpful class I took in law school (although mine was 8:00 am on Fridays my 3L fall and not gonna lie, missed a few of those). But I'm in a practice area totally outside what I intended to do while I was in law school, so didn't take most of the core classes in that field, so it's survivable (though I kinda wish I'd taken them).

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BVest

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Re: classes relevance for future clerkship

Postby BVest » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:14 pm

umichman wrote:I'll be in a practice where i will do a substantial amount of brief writing. In reality i want to have a chill third year adn the evidence class is Friday at 8:30am so I am hoping people will say that it will not have long term harm.


In that case I don't think there's anything that you'll have to have for most judges if you're applying for a clerkship after 2-3 years out. There may be a judge here or there where classes are used to screen, but even they'll recognize that experience >>> class, if the experience is relevant. Evidence would be useful, but I'm not sure how useful if you haven't had it for several years.

My problem was that my summers (by the time of applying for clerkships, anyway) had produced nothing super useful as a sample either due to not being litigation focused or due to being judicial with a 100% no-use policy. For post-clerkship apps, I had briefing I prepared for my clinic.
Last edited by BVest on Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

bk1

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Re: classes relevance for future clerkship

Postby bk1 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:24 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:It will depend on the judge. Some judges look for specific courses (like evidence, fed courts), but many - I would suggest most, but there's no way to measure - won't. I would say that if you're looking after a couple of years working, that's going to matter more than your specific courses.

I agree with this. Some judges are pedantic about having certain classes and I suspect for those judges it wouldn't necessarily matter that someone is a few years out.
Nebby wrote:Okay fine I read the thread title and thought it was a poorly worded question

Speaking of being pedantic, "relevant" and "relevance" are not the same word.

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Re: classes relevance for future clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:22 pm

I got grilled for not taking admin. and fed. courts. Will vary by judge. If you are worried, just read a "nutshell" so you can say you taught it to yourself.

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Re: classes relevance for future clerkship

Postby JAzzY3476 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I got grilled for not taking admin. and fed. courts. Will vary by judge. If you are worried, just read a "nutshell" so you can say you taught it to yourself.


Did you get a clerkship though? What was the percentage of judges that grilled you on this compared to the amount of interviews you got?

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mjb447

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Re: classes relevance for future clerkship

Postby mjb447 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:22 pm

I applied as an alum two or three years out with fed courts and evidence but without admin or crim pro and with an extremely "soft" 3L schedule. I don't remember ever being questioned about lacking these or any other courses, or about my cushy schedule, although I may have missed out on interviews because of it (who knows?). Also, I think my work experience was an unusually good proxy for clerk work, so your mileage may vary.

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Re: classes relevance for future clerkship

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:00 pm

Over 18 months of applying as an alum and through 10 interviews, I was never asked once about my course schedule or why I didn't take a bunch of "required" clerkship courses ( I did advanced coursework in con law and evidence and that was about it). Like others here, I don't know how many interviews that cost me with judges who put transcripts under their microscope. I'd venture to say at the interview stage it's 75% or more about idiosyncratic "fit" with the judge than anything else which is something you have no control over other than being yourself.

If you're an alum with practice and/or state clerkship experience, I do believe with a moderate amount of judges (there are those that are and will remain hyper grade/school conscious no matter how talented you are) that grade/course selection matter less because you have experienced some live fire (you actually briefed matters, theoretically interacted with clients, opposing counsel etc.) Writing samples and experience overall combined with bar passage may compensate for not taking criminal procedure and maybe, in some instances, compensate for lower/unremarkable grades. By being an alum who has practiced or clerked previously - you've proven to a degree that you are capable of doing the work. Law school applicants lack substantive work experience, actual writing samples (with the exception of some clinics), and haven't passed the bar. The judge needs a sample size to figure out whether you can do the job - grades and course selection give them some, if not most, of that. Again, it comes down to the judge's criteria.



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