Getting antsy

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JackOfAllTrades

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Re: Getting antsy

Postby JackOfAllTrades » Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:48 pm

WheninLaw wrote:
JackOfAllTrades wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Cold calling former clerks is completely the norm. No clerk I know would ever think twice about it and most would let their judge know that an interviewee was reaching out. :shrug:


Seriously, this is something that no one from our career office ever told me. I told them I had an interview and they never mentioned doing this. Glad I know now, I guess.


My career office (Chicago) wouldn't have told me to do this either. Just take initiative.


I guess, to me "take initiative" borders on the inappropriate. Is there some analog to this? If I got an interview with DOJ Honors, does that mean I should start searching LinkedIn for anyone working in that component and emailing them? It's weird and not intuitive.

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emkay625

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Re: Getting antsy

Postby emkay625 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:51 pm

JackOfAllTrades wrote:
WheninLaw wrote:
JackOfAllTrades wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Cold calling former clerks is completely the norm. No clerk I know would ever think twice about it and most would let their judge know that an interviewee was reaching out. :shrug:


Seriously, this is something that no one from our career office ever told me. I told them I had an interview and they never mentioned doing this. Glad I know now, I guess.


My career office (Chicago) wouldn't have told me to do this either. Just take initiative.


I guess, to me "take initiative" borders on the inappropriate. Is there some analog to this? If I got an interview with DOJ Honors, does that mean I should start searching LinkedIn for anyone working in that component and emailing them? It's weird and not intuitive.


No.

It's a well-known part of the clerkship application process. (I found that out from reading a TLS guide, iirc.) I don't know of any other job that it is a thing for.

Quichelorraine

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Re: Getting antsy

Postby Quichelorraine » Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:55 pm

JackOfAllTrades wrote:
I guess, to me "take initiative" borders on the inappropriate. Is there some analog to this? If I got an interview with DOJ Honors, does that mean I should start searching LinkedIn for anyone working in that component and emailing them? It's weird and not intuitive.


Yeah, this particular advice is probably closer to the border, especially if the former clerks are far removed in time from law school. There's an element of risk, too, although unlikely of the pissy-lawyer-calls-judge-and-tells-her-not-to-hire-you variety, and more likely of the pissy-lawyer-acts-like-pissy-lawyer-when-you-DARE-email-him type. But a recent grad, whose clerkship wasn't too long ago? That's worth a quick, one or two line email, especially if your CSO isn't giving you much in the way of guidance.

(Again, there's an element of caprice here. Take parlay calls. Many CSOs advise students that parlay calls--essentially, calling other judges and letting them know you're in town when you have an interview with a neighboring judge--are just part of the game. This everyone-does-it message hasn't quite permeated the judiciary; there are some judges out there who'll chop your hands off if you call chambers to let them know you just happened to be in the neighborhood. You have no way of telling the fair from the ferocious.)

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sublime

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Re: Getting antsy

Postby sublime » Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:56 pm

..

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landshoes

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Re: Getting antsy

Postby landshoes » Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:06 pm

You seem to be uncomfortable with the fact that some people are smarter than other people, and that some people are actually extremely, freakishly smart. However, this is very much the case. Just like some people are freakishly tall.

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052220152

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Re: Getting antsy

Postby 052220152 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:17 pm

sublime wrote:
Jim Jones wrote:Hey fuck you OP


Try to relax a bit when on the on-topics, man.


It wasn't a tense fuck you

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Getting antsy

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:24 pm

JackOfAllTrades wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:People are responding to your anger and self-righteousness. You make people want to disagree with you regardless of what you're saying.


yea that seems right. People seem to be overlooking the things I'm saying because I'm not saying them politely.

That's not what I said. Self-righteous and not polite are not the same thing.

I honestly don't know what you're talking about, RE: "diversity." I never mentioned anything about that as far as I remember. But since you brought it up, we could have another thread about Art III judges are immune from Title VII discrimination suits. The judge where I externed last summer had a picture of all his former clerks on the wall, almost 20 yrs worth. One black person. Rest white.


This is where you talked about having a more diverse legal profession: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=260373&p=9158934&hilit=Diverse#p9158934

It would be great to have more diversity in clerking. It would be great to have more diversity in law firm partners, and judges, and law professors. It comes off as disingenuous when your concern about these things comes about because you find out you're going to have a harder time getting a particular job than you thought.

I honestly did not know what a "clerkship" was when I started law school, and I seriously doubt the majority of law students do. It never ceases to amaze me the number of practicing attorneys I talk to who think an "internship" is a clerkship.

And even if I had known what a clerkship was and how screwed up the process is, I don't see how that should preclude me from pointing out that it's screwed up. If we take your position, the only people who could complain a broken system are the people who have no incentive to complain about it.

Lots of applicants know what clerkships are, and factor that into their choice of schools. You can look at the choosing threads and see people talk about them all the time. People research this stuff before going to law school. So people roll their eyes a little when someone pops up and says "the system is rigged because it should be easier for me to get this job!"

Re: the taking initiative thing - if you had an honors interview, no, you wouldn't cold-email someone you found on LinkedIn about it. But if anyone you know knows someone working in that component, you can ask them to put you in contact if their friend is willing.

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rpupkin

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Re: Getting antsy

Postby rpupkin » Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:36 pm

JackOfAllTrades wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:People are responding to your anger and self-righteousness. You make people want to disagree with you regardless of what you're saying.


yea that seems right. People seem to be overlooking the things I'm saying because I'm not saying them politely.

Indeed. Never back down, JackOfAllTrades! Fight the Power!!

"Impoliteness in defense of clerkships for T50 law students is no vice." --Barry Goldwater

JackOfAllTrades

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Re: Getting antsy

Postby JackOfAllTrades » Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:28 am

rpupkin wrote:
JackOfAllTrades wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:People are responding to your anger and self-righteousness. You make people want to disagree with you regardless of what you're saying.


yea that seems right. People seem to be overlooking the things I'm saying because I'm not saying them politely.

Indeed. Never back down, JackOfAllTrades! Fight the Power!!

"Impoliteness in defense of clerkships for T50 law students is no vice." --Barry Goldwater


Barry Goldwater would have LOVED this thread. Especially the part where everyone said that a horribly broken system should not be changed because something something freedom.

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Quichelorraine

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Re: Getting antsy

Postby Quichelorraine » Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:54 am

Barry Goldwater would have LOVED this thread. Especially the part where everyone said that a horribly broken system should not be changed because something something freedom.


Literally nobody is saying that. Although people are pointing out how your particular ideas for change are good, bad, or problematic, depending.

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bruinfan10

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Re: Getting antsy

Postby bruinfan10 » Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:56 pm

JackOfAllTrades wrote:looks like bruinfan deleted his post

I did. But you still make terrible choices. Rolodex of clerks on speed dial--how criminally under-informed are you?? Have you never googled a clerkship application guide? Harvard and Yale post theirs online for free...

Look, the point I was making about not busting my ass to get good grades, which completely went over your head, is that even at T14s, good grades are the MINIMUM for an AIII clerkship. Good candidates, unlike you, figure out how to get good grades and then do a ton of other stuff to distinguish themselves. You're just really, really bad at this.

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