2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Being a female generally helps a ton. Especially with female judges.

This is weird, given that, as someone suggested above, there seem to be many more male clerks, especially at the COA level. (Caveat: based on my limited experience, anyway. Would love to see some stats on this.)

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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:15 pm

Many more men apply.

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TatteredDignity
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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby TatteredDignity » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:16 pm

It would also be interesting to see how the pool of competitive female clerkship applicants (T14, top 10%, etc.) compares in size with the male pool. And, of that pool, how many of them self-select out. I bet the former is pretty similar in size. I have no idea about the latter.

ETA: Partially scooped by anon. Wonder why this is. Women are less geographically mobile?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:38 pm

Law school faculties are still disproportionately male and people tend to like/help people who are like them?

Though, to be fair, for some reason my year in school, women overwhelmingly opted out of going for LR, and did secondary journals instead (which didn't require the write-on). No idea what was up with that.

And I'd be curious to see if women do get hired at higher rates than men, compared to their representation.

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ndirish2010
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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby ndirish2010 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:58 pm

Out of the five clerks in my building when I was clerking at a district court, I was the only male. And two of the judges were male. Just to add a random anecdote.'

In my law school class, a lot of the women at the top of the class did not want to clerk. Same with the class after me. I don't know why that was, but the men proportionally showed much more interest in clerking.

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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Big Dog » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:51 am

In my law school class, a lot of the women at the top of the class did not want to clerk. Same with the class after me. I don't know why that was, but the men proportionally showed much more interest in clerking.


Does Lit tend to attract more men?

And I'd be curious to see if women do get hired at higher rates than men, compared to their representation.


And higher ranked firms?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:20 am

ndirish2010 wrote:Out of the five clerks in my building when I was clerking at a district court, I was the only male. And two of the judges were male. Just to add a random anecdote.'

In my law school class, a lot of the women at the top of the class did not want to clerk. Same with the class after me. I don't know why that was, but the men proportionally showed much more interest in clerking.

Yeah, I think mostly everyone's going off of anecdotes (me absolutely included), though it's interesting what different people see. I remember being startled by how many of the COA clerks in the circuit I was in were male (I was not a COA clerk, and didn't see a big disparity at the DCt level). But most of the time people's experience (including mine) is limited to at most 1-2 jurisdictions over a fairly short period, so it's hard to know how far to take any of it.

I'm sure there are some judges who hire women over men if all else is equal, but I'm not convinced that generally speaking being a woman helps a lot just because there are fewer of them.

Big Dog wrote:
And I'd be curious to see if women do get hired at higher rates than men, compared to their representation.


And higher ranked firms?

I was only talking about clerkships, to be clear; I don't think anyone's suggested women have an advantage in firm hiring because fewer of them apply. Last I checked there were plenty of women going into biglaw.

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ndirish2010
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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby ndirish2010 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:50 am

My only thought for a slight advantage for women is that perhaps female judges prefer women at a higher rate than male judges prefer men. I would think this is probably true. BUT there are fewer female judges.

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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:56 am

culturally speaking, a lot of women in law school don't pursue opportunities they could pursue due to lack of confidence, pressure to focus on family over career, or lack of mentorship. Structurally it's still more difficult as an ambitious career-minded woman. unfortunately women are socialized in many competitive environments not to put themselves out there for coveted opportunities for a number of reasons.

As a result, law schools and the judiciary have developed networks to help support female candidates for elite positions, so that might appear as women being "favored" when really IMO its more of a mechanism to rectify a historical imbalance and to provide support to women who are interested in those options. For example, at my school there are female professors who very specifically and aggressively recruit top female students and encourage them to apply for clerkships, and then make calls on their behalf.

the attractive female dynamic (to whatever extent it exists) is a totally different thing tho

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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Big Dog » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:33 am

I was only talking about clerkships, to be clear;


Gotcha.


II don't think anyone's suggested women have an advantage in firm hiring because fewer of them apply.


Actually, I was (but it is slight -- firms value all kinds of diversity, as do many judges).

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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:01 am

Big Dog wrote:
I was only talking about clerkships, to be clear;

Gotcha.
II don't think anyone's suggested women have an advantage in firm hiring because fewer of them apply.

Actually, I was (but it is slight -- firms value all kinds of diversity, as do many judges).

Do you have any evidence of that? (Not that any of us have really had any evidence so far, of course.)

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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:41 am

jbagelboy wrote:culturally speaking, a lot of women in law school don't pursue opportunities they could pursue due to lack of confidence, pressure to focus on family over career, or lack of mentorship. Structurally it's still more difficult as an ambitious career-minded woman. unfortunately women are socialized in many competitive environments not to put themselves out there for coveted opportunities for a number of reasons.

As a result, law schools and the judiciary have developed networks to help support female candidates for elite positions, so that might appear as women being "favored" when really IMO its more of a mechanism to rectify a historical imbalance and to provide support to women who are interested in those options. For example, at my school there are female professors who very specifically and aggressively recruit top female students and encourage them to apply for clerkships, and then make calls on their behalf.

the attractive female dynamic (to whatever extent it exists) is a totally different thing tho


As a [female] student at the top of my class at a T-14, I wish this was true at my school. I hope for the sake of my fellow female bad-asses that other T-14s are consistently engaged in this practice.

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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:32 pm

As a [female] student at the top of my class at a T-14, I wish this was true at my school. I hope for the sake of my fellow female bad-asses that other T-14s are consistently engaged in this practice.


Ditto.

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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
As a [female] student at the top of my class at a T-14, I wish this was true at my school. I hope for the sake of my fellow female bad-asses that other T-14s are consistently engaged in this practice.


Ditto.


Similar position -- top 10-20 at HYS. There doesn't seem to be a gender boost. I'm extremely skeptical that it's helpful-- in fact I think it may hurt, since subconsciously, people looking for "fit" prioritize people like themselves. Since most judges are men, I'm not sure it helps to be a woman.

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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:19 pm

In my experience there isn't really a "gender boost" in clerk hiring. My judges have a pretty strong preference for a gender balanced clerk class, but because there's no shortage of highly qualified candidates of both genders, there's no need to give anyone one a "boost." It's true that if by chance we'd hired a couple of dudes as our first hires we'd then focus on female applicants, but the converse is equally true -- and either way we wouldn't look at anyone, male or female, who didn't fit our hiring criteria.

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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone received an offer from the EDNY judges interviewing the past month, e.g. bianco and vitaliano?


anyone have anything on this? for '17-18?

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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:52 pm

Does anyone know who is actively reviewing apps on the ninth and second circuits? Who still has spots open? Thanks for any help you guys can give!

hls314159
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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby hls314159 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:50 pm

What are my general chances at a clerkship (perhaps on the 4th, 5th, 6th, or 11th COA)?
* HLS * 6 H's, including 2 DS's * 4 P's * Good Summer Employment * Secondary Journal, no HLR * Board position on large organization

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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby codyoneill » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:56 pm

hls314159 wrote:What are my general chances at a clerkship (perhaps on the 4th, 5th, 6th, or 11th COA)?
* HLS * 6 H's, including 2 DS's * 4 P's * Good Summer Employment * Secondary Journal, no HLR * Board position on large organization


If you haven't looked here yet, there's helpful information and a chart at the bottom of the page that should help answer your question.

For others in the thread, access is limited to Harvard students.

https://hls.harvard.edu/dept/ocs/jd-stu ... -consider/

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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:34 am

Is it worth updating judges if I was notified that I am in the top 2% (previously only had the top 10% cutoff)? Or should I keep my fingers crossed and wait for journal results in another week?

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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:28 pm

Have any NDCA judges made offers this cycle?

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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby pupshaw » Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is it worth updating judges if I was notified that I am in the top 2% (previously only had the top 10% cutoff)? Or should I keep my fingers crossed and wait for journal results in another week?


Wait for journal results so you only send one update.

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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:11 pm

Thoughts on whether a District Court clerkship is in the cards for me?

Rising 2L at Duke, approx. top 1/3rd, LR, good WE and legal writing credentials.

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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:22 pm

Hi guys,

Question about chances for district clerkships and less competitive circuit court clerkships? Mostly aiming at the Midwest, have excellent ties to one state in particular (not Illinois).

K-JD, HLS grad, cum laude. I had a great 3L year, with 2 DS, 1 P, rest were Hs, including Fed Courts. All recommended clerkship courses are Hs or DSes. 1L and 2L grades were closer to median, but a family member had been fighting terminal cancer the whole time. (I was closer to that family member than I am to my father, so it wasn't easy to deal with.) I took blackletter law courses throughout law school. Non upper masthead on a secondary journal.

By the time I clerk I will have two years experience at a Chambers Tier 1 practice group. I will probably have two very enthusiastic professor recommendations. One of the professors has repeatedly offered to write a LOR without me asking.

What would my chances look like for those clerkships? Any way I could enhance my application? If it matters, I am a woman.

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nothingtosee
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Re: 2017-2018 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby nothingtosee » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:52 pm

If I'm asking a prof to call/ email chambers, how do I find the judges phone number/email to give to the prof?




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