Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

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Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:55 pm

HYS 1L here. I've concluded that for a clerkship to be worth my time, it'll have to be a feeder COA and then possibly SCOTUS afterward. Otherwise, my time is better spent going straight to a firm. This is unless I discover new interests between now and hiring.

I don't have rock-solid credentials that clearly indicate allegiance to one side. First in family to attend law school, so nothing there either.

1. Which side to pick? Politically, I'm more one than the other, but I have no idea what my jurisprudential leanings are.

Considerations:

A. It's easier to stand out among conservatives than liberals. Supply demand etc.
B. That said, my school is tremendously liberal. None of my professors this semester would lend well to an application to a conservative. Next semester, it'll be half people with conservative credentials to the extent that, e.g., a Rehnquist clerkship could indicate a current conservative leaning, half neutral credentials (i.e., default assumption is that they're liberal).
C. Right now, COA feeders and SCOTUS are slightly conservative or else balanced. I guess I'll be applying next year, when it shouldn't change much from this year. But if I don't apply right out of school because I don't think I'm competitive by next year for off-plan judges, the composition could very well be different at the time I apply. Although the 2014 elections have probably slowed the growth of the liberal contingent for the time being--I don't endorse or lament this, just stating a widely held belief.

2. How to demonstrate that ideological leaning? I haven't been deeply involved in either ACS or FedSoc and I've never been the type to end up the president of an organization. Also, I just participate a few times in class, go to office hours with questions somewhat related to the class. Should I be doing more to build facetime with professors?

Assume that I have the "focus on getting good grades, unless you're at YLS" part down.

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ggocat
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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby ggocat » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:17 pm

Wat? I don't even. Relax.
Last edited by ggocat on Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sundontshine
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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby sundontshine » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:20 pm

I want to print out this post and make it my Christmas card.

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fats provolone
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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby fats provolone » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:HYS 1L here. I've concluded that for a clerkship to be worth my time, it'll have to be a feeder COA and then possibly SCOTUS afterward. Otherwise, my time is better spent going straight to a firm. This is unless I discover new interests between now and hiring.

I don't have rock-solid credentials that clearly indicate allegiance to one side. First in family to attend law school, so nothing there either.

1. Which side to pick? Politically, I'm more one than the other, but I have no idea what my jurisprudential leanings are.

Considerations:

A. It's easier to stand out among conservatives than liberals. Supply demand etc.
B. That said, my school is tremendously liberal. None of my professors this semester would lend well to an application to a conservative. Next semester, it'll be half people with conservative credentials to the extent that, e.g., a Rehnquist clerkship could indicate a current conservative leaning, half neutral credentials (i.e., default assumption is that they're liberal).
C. Right now, COA feeders and SCOTUS are slightly conservative or else balanced. I guess I'll be applying next year, when it shouldn't change much from this year. But if I don't apply right out of school because I don't think I'm competitive by next year for off-plan judges, the composition could very well be different at the time I apply. Although the 2014 elections have probably slowed the growth of the liberal contingent for the time being--I don't endorse or lament this, just stating a widely held belief.

2. How to demonstrate that ideological leaning? I haven't been deeply involved in either ACS or FedSoc and I've never been the type to end up the president of an organization. Also, I just participate a few times in class, go to office hours with questions somewhat related to the class. Should I be doing more to build facetime with professors?

Assume that I have the "focus on getting good grades, unless you're at YLS" part down.

conservative is the way to go. dumber competition.

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:56 am

Oh man, where to begin

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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:59 am

You're a liberal

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bjsesq
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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby bjsesq » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:02 am

You raise some good points here. I think that in order to really reflect your inclinations to the side you seek to attract, you have to show passion. That passion starts with killing yourself.

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Icculus
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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby Icculus » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:32 am

1L w/o any grades back is already talking about COA and SCOTUS clerkships and a firm as a back up. Just wow. Never mind the fact that the base for your entire post - choosing a political leaning - is idiotic.

bjsesq wrote:You raise some good points here. I think that in order to really reflect your inclinations to the side you seek to attract, you have to show passion. That passion starts with killing yourself.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby Elston Gunn » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:35 am

you need almost perfect grades at YLS for SCOTUS dood*

*exceptions apply, yes, yes

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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:You're a liberal


Seems likely.

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Emma.
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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby Emma. » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:46 am

Seems like your biggest problem isn't going to be picking a "jurisprudential side," it's going to be not having the "don't be a complete jackass" part down.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:21 pm

This has gotta be a flame.

No judge (or even firm) will want someone with such a transparent lack of convictions. You sound vapid as fuck in this thread, and that will probably come across in other settings as well unless you take some serious time to consider your values.

For one, stop thinking about life as a set of derivative experiences measured only in their signaling value to you.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby Elston Gunn » Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:24 pm

jbagelboy wrote:This has gotta be a flame.

No judge (or even firm) will want someone with such a transparent lack of convictions. You sound vapid as fuck in this thread, and that will probably come across in other settings as well unless you take some serious time to consider your values.

For one, stop thinking about life as a set of derivative experiences measured only in their signaling value to you.

Nah there are plenty of judges who love people with no convictions other than that they would really like a fancy clerkship.

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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:16 pm

Part of me wonders if it's even worth it. Like ok, let's all be crazy and assume this 1L actually has a shot at SCOTUS. Is it really better to gun all three years of law school chasing prestige instead of just 1L --> $160k --> :D though? Gunning for SCOTUS costs you an extra two years of your life. That's a lot of time you could have been listening to music, falling in love, making more friends, traveling, exercising, trying every new restaurant or drink you could think of, etc instead of doing bullshit journal work and dying in the library. Maybe life's for living.

-- 3L going CoA who wonders if they should have done things differently.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Part of me wonders if it's even worth it. Like ok, let's all be crazy and assume this 1L actually has a shot at SCOTUS. Is it really better to gun all three years of law school chasing prestige instead of just 1L --> $160k --> :D though? Gunning for SCOTUS costs you an extra two years of your life. That's a lot of time you could have been listening to music, falling in love, making more friends, traveling, exercising, trying every new restaurant or drink you could think of, etc instead of doing bullshit journal work and dying in the library. Maybe life's for living.

-- 3L going CoA who wonders if they should have done things differently.

Do you think you're actually going to do more of those happy things working biglaw than clerking on COA/SCOTUS? What keeps you from doing those things while you're clerking?

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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:20 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Part of me wonders if it's even worth it. Like ok, let's all be crazy and assume this 1L actually has a shot at SCOTUS. Is it really better to gun all three years of law school chasing prestige instead of just 1L --> $160k --> :D though? Gunning for SCOTUS costs you an extra two years of your life. That's a lot of time you could have been listening to music, falling in love, making more friends, traveling, exercising, trying every new restaurant or drink you could think of, etc instead of doing bullshit journal work and dying in the library. Maybe life's for living.

-- 3L going CoA who wonders if they should have done things differently.

Do you think you're actually going to do more of those happy things working biglaw than clerking on COA/SCOTUS? What keeps you from doing those things while you're clerking?


The difference is that I could have done more of those happy things during law school had I chosen just biglaw over chasing clerkships. After school then yes, we're all going to be busy (though SCOTUS clerks and some other clerks may be busier). But there is a sizable cost while still in school that only clerkship gunners get hit with. There can also be pretty big after-school costs too (moving for a year, if your Judge isn't in your city, etc.). Did I make the right choices? I think so. But some days it's a closer question than a lot of people realize.

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for my CoA clerkship. But there is a certain (unhealthy?) level of maniacal self-denial that helps one with this process. I could have done more things and taken more punishment that might have brightened my (dim) shot at SCOTUS. Others took those bullets, and some of them may get the golden apple over me. Some of them are just more disciplined or less in need of sleep or smarter than me (I truly think these sorts of superhumans make up a large portion of the 39), but others . . . the harsh truth might just be that having zero life outside the law and a tolerance for loneliness is an advantage at the law's highest levels. There is no such thing as a free SCOTUS clerkship, just as there is no costless path to Biglaw partner or whatever other material achievement one could want in the law.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:34 pm

Lol if this is real I feel sorry for you

It would be extremely idiotic to determine your political beliefs on the basis of COA and SCOTUS judges

CBXfail
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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby CBXfail » Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:24 pm

.
Last edited by CBXfail on Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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baal hadad
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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby baal hadad » Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:HYS 1L here. I've concluded that for a clerkship to be worth my time, it'll have to be a feeder COA and then possibly SCOTUS afterward. Otherwise, my time is better spent going straight to a firm. This is unless I discover new interests between now and hiring.

I don't have rock-solid credentials that clearly indicate allegiance to one side. First in family to attend law school, so nothing there either.

1. Which side to pick? Politically, I'm more one than the other, but I have no idea what my jurisprudential leanings are.

Considerations:

A. It's easier to stand out among conservatives than liberals. Supply demand etc.
B. That said, my school is tremendously liberal. None of my professors this semester would lend well to an application to a conservative. Next semester, it'll be half people with conservative credentials to the extent that, e.g., a Rehnquist clerkship could indicate a current conservative leaning, half neutral credentials (i.e., default assumption is that they're liberal).
C. Right now, COA feeders and SCOTUS are slightly conservative or else balanced. I guess I'll be applying next year, when it shouldn't change much from this year. But if I don't apply right out of school because I don't think I'm competitive by next year for off-plan judges, the composition could very well be different at the time I apply. Although the 2014 elections have probably slowed the growth of the liberal contingent for the time being--I don't endorse or lament this, just stating a widely held belief.

2. How to demonstrate that ideological leaning? I haven't been deeply involved in either ACS or FedSoc and I've never been the type to end up the president of an organization. Also, I just participate a few times in class, go to office hours with questions somewhat related to the class. Should I be doing more to build facetime with professors?

Assume that I have the "focus on getting good grades, unless you're at YLS" part down.

do green party

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby Ron Don Volante » Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:06 pm

bjsesq wrote:You raise some good points here. I think that in order to really reflect your inclinations to the side you seek to attract, you have to show passion. That passion starts withkilling yourself.

I agree w/ bjsesq

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:The difference is that I could have done more of those happy things during law school had I chosen just biglaw over chasing clerkships. After school then yes, we're all going to be busy (though SCOTUS clerks and some other clerks may be busier). But there is a sizable cost while still in school that only clerkship gunners get hit with. There can also be pretty big after-school costs too (moving for a year, if your Judge isn't in your city, etc.). Did I make the right choices? I think so. But some days it's a closer question than a lot of people realize.

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited for my CoA clerkship. But there is a certain (unhealthy?) level of maniacal self-denial that helps one with this process. I could have done more things and taken more punishment that might have brightened my (dim) shot at SCOTUS. Others took those bullets, and some of them may get the golden apple over me. Some of them are just more disciplined or less in need of sleep or smarter than me (I truly think these sorts of superhumans make up a large portion of the 39), but others . . . the harsh truth might just be that having zero life outside the law and a tolerance for loneliness is an advantage at the law's highest levels. There is no such thing as a free SCOTUS clerkship, just as there is no costless path to Biglaw partner or whatever other material achievement one could want in the law.

I guess I think that if you feel this way, you're deluding yourself if you think you'd have had a significantly different experience in law school. The kind of people who actually do pass on listening to music, falling in love, making friends, traveling, exercising, trying new restaurants/drinks etc., for the prospect of a clerkship would pass on those things for other reasons if not the clerkship, even if you did go 1L --> $160K.

Or to put it another way: whatever cost isn't because you gunned for a clerkship; it's because you're the kind of person who would gun for a clerkship. You were doomed long ago.

(I'm talking from personal experience as a clerkship gunner here, so it's not meant as a personal jab or anything.)

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fats provolone
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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby fats provolone » Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:47 pm

lol at pretending that you intentionally gave up more fulfilling pursuits in favor of your striver ambitions

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RCSOB657
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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby RCSOB657 » Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:58 pm


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minnbills
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Re: Picking Liberal vs Conservative side as a 1L

Postby minnbills » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:15 pm

God I hate law students




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