2016-2017 chances - is top 25% good enough? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Applying for 2016-2017 term
T20
Top 25%
LR
c/o 2016
USAO this fall
Potential RA in the spring

Planning to focus on less popular district courts (flyover states, etc.) as well as states which I have ties to. I also plan to apply to the Supreme Court of my state and the state Courts of Appeals. Magistrate judges aren't out of the question either.

I know it's a bit early to be looking at 2016, but realistically, what are my chances? Of course it depends on each individual judge, etc., but I guess my main question is if not being in the top 10% and/or not going to a T14 dashes my chances of getting a District-level clerkship.

Any help/advice is appreciated.

[Anonymous User]

You have LR and some relevant experience. The only weak spot (generally speaking) is your grades. Major districts will probably be out, but the further you go out (especially flyover) in less geographically desirable part of the country, the school/grade requirements will be more lax than the major cities. Maj judges are definitely in the play for you, although I will urge you to do research on the judges as their role differs significantly based on the district they are located. State supreme Court is also a viable option.

So, yes your grades are not as competitive as the average applicant, but it is also not as far off the median either. So apply wide, don't limit yourself. As someone who is now clerking and has interned at two different district courts in two different cities, I can tell you that judges' hiring criteria is highly subjective generally speaking and you will be doing yourself a disservice not to submit application to as many judges as you can. Don't tell yourself no by not applying, let them tell you no. So my advice is to apply widely, even to judges that you think are reaches.

[ResIpsa21]

Did you miss out on biglaw or did you not try?

[Anonymous User]

You also might think about practicing for a couple of years if you get a biglaw job in the upcoming OCI and then applying to alum-only judges. The competition for those is MUCH lower, plus a lot of judges give your firm and experience almost as much weight as grades.

Personally, I had little/no luck as a student (top 20-25% from a CCN) applying in a single major market. I practiced at a V20 for a bit and then applied as an alum. I think I sent off about 30 applications to alum-only judges and got 8 interviews (I went on 4 before getting an offer).

[Anonymous User]

I know someone who has a similar profile (without the USAO or RA) gotten fed. distr. ct. clerkship, but its more on the rare side.

[Anonymous User]

What about top 25% at HYS for a less selective COA or a more selective district? I'm getting some mixed signals from different people.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks for the suggestions and advice. Glad to hear that I *might* have a shot with some of the lesser districts.

To clarify, my local market is in desperate need of both minorities (non-whites, not just URM) and engineering majors (you should totally do patent law bro), and I happen to check off both boxes. I'm in the middle of a 1L SA with a big firm and will likely be working local biglaw next summer as well. I've been networking like a madman, and I think my top three or four firms will at least give me callbacks (one already has). So the job hunt is less of a concern for me.

To ResIpsa - your question suggests that it might be a mistake to clerk if biglaw is already on the table. Do you feel like that's the case? If so, why? Or am I misinterpreting you?

To the anonymous poster suggesting I apply broadly - that was always the plan, but it's nice to get some affirmation. It's easy to skip applying if you expect a "no" response, so your comments are a nice reminder to shotgun it anyway.

To the anonymous poster suggesting I work for a few years first - that seems less attractive to me, since my roots in the area might be stronger by then. I think a year right after school is a good time to go somewhere else. That being said, it sounds like the odds improve a bit at that point. Could you share a bit more about your experience? Did you go to a different region from where you practiced?

Any other opinions/experiences out there? Thanks again for any help/advice.

[Person1111]

What about top 25% at HYS for a less selective COA or a more selective district? I'm getting some mixed signals from different people.

Definitely not out of the running. Your recommendations, the strength of your resume, and luck will play a large role in determining whether you secure something. You will be in much better shape if you can get a professor to go to bat for you, but it's definitely not the end of the world if you cannot.

[Anonymous User]

What about top 25% at HYS for a less selective COA or a more selective district? I'm getting some mixed signals from different people.

Definitely not out of the running. Your recommendations, the strength of your resume, and luck will play a large role in determining whether you secure something. You will be in much better shape if you can get a professor to go to bat for you, but it's definitely not the end of the world if you cannot.

Thanks. I just wonder if it's worth it to go through the effort of applying. For a ten percent chance I don't want to go through the whole process, for something more secure I for sure would. Would even do the shittiest of locations.

[Anonymous User]

What about top 25% at HYS for a less selective COA or a more selective district? I'm getting some mixed signals from different people.

Definitely not out of the running. Your recommendations, the strength of your resume, and luck will play a large role in determining whether you secure something. You will be in much better shape if you can get a professor to go to bat for you, but it's definitely not the end of the world if you cannot.

Thanks. I just wonder if it's worth it to go through the effort of applying. For a ten percent chance I don't want to go through the whole process, for something more secure I for sure would. Would even do the shittiest of locations.

I think your odds are significantly better than 10%, although maybe it depends more on what school you go to. At least at SLS and YLS, more than 25% of the class is landing clerkships, so by definition you'd be in the running for something.

I had similar grades at SLS and landed a competitive district (although it was the only competitive district interview I got -- i had a couple more flyover district interviews). WIth the district clerkship I've had three COA interviews in more or less flyover-ish places (although two of them were on 2/7/9 circuits). If you don't want to clerk that badly then don't apply, but if you have profs willing to bat for you I don't see why you wouldn't at least get interviews.

[Anonymous User]

What about top 25% at HYS for a less selective COA or a more selective district? I'm getting some mixed signals from different people.

yes, I got both with grades around yours from one of those. it's about professors.
doing something that demonstrates you'll go above and beyond like Law Review and writing a Note help (i did both)

EDIT: actually, I wrote a note-length (not necessarily note quality) paper for each of my recommenders before they recommended me

[ResIpsa21]

To ResIpsa - your question suggests that it might be a mistake to clerk if biglaw is already on the table. Do you feel like that's the case? If so, why? Or am I misinterpreting you?

I asked because you need to consider post-clerkship employment before deciding where it's worth applying. If you have a biglaw offer and you plan to go back to the firm after clerking, you can apply as broadly as you want. You will definitely be in the running for flyover district courts. A firm might hold your offer open for a non-AIII clerkship too, like a magistrate or bankruptcy judge. A firm would probably still give you a clerkship bonus for SSC (although that would be tough for you to get, SSC clerkships are very competitive).

If, on the other hand, you are looking to clerk and then hit the market looking for a job, you should be very careful about where you apply. There are plenty of people clerking for district judges in flyover districts who can't find good work. As many people have constantly repeated on this forum, clerking is not a golden ticket to biglaw or any other paying job. You need to be very careful to consider what job you want after the clerkship and determine exactly how the clerkship will help you get it. This is particularly important if you're considering clerking for a non-SSC state court.

[Anonymous User]

To ResIpsa - your question suggests that it might be a mistake to clerk if biglaw is already on the table. Do you feel like that's the case? If so, why? Or am I misinterpreting you?

I asked because you need to consider post-clerkship employment before deciding where it's worth applying. If you have a biglaw offer and you plan to go back to the firm after clerking, you can apply as broadly as you want. You will definitely be in the running for flyover district courts. A firm might hold your offer open for a non-AIII clerkship too, like a magistrate or bankruptcy judge. A firm would probably still give you a clerkship bonus for SSC (although that would be tough for you to get, SSC clerkships are very competitive).

If, on the other hand, you are looking to clerk and then hit the market looking for a job, you should be very careful about where you apply. There are plenty of people clerking for district judges in flyover districts who can't find good work. As many people have constantly repeated on this forum, clerking is not a golden ticket to biglaw or any other paying job. You need to be very careful to consider what job you want after the clerkship and determine exactly how the clerkship will help you get it. This is particularly important if you're considering clerking for a non-SSC state court.

Ah, now that makes sense. Thanks for the insight. I should have clarified: I'm not trying to use a clerkship as a ticket to biglaw. My goal is to have a firm hold an offer open for me and to go back there after the clerkship. At this point, I'm thinking I will focus my applications on flyover district courts and SSC.

This raises another question though. Let's say I get a biglaw offer and I am also selected for a flyover district clerkship, only the firm turns around and says they won't hold the offer open. Do you think it makes more sense in that case to skip the clerkship and take the guaranteed job? Bear in mind that I have some connections at other firms which could turn into jobs at some point, but let's say there are no guaranteed biglaw offers in this scenario.

[Anonymous User]

How about top 5% at a T20 with a Dist. Ct. internship, 1L big law summer job, RA, and LR? Also c/o 2016 looking at 2016-17. Thanks!

[ResIpsa21]

How about top 5% at a T20 with a Dist. Ct. internship, 1L big law summer job, RA, and LR? Also c/o 2016 looking at 2016-17. Thanks!

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=211479

[Anonymous User]

Yeah I honestly think you should apply everywhere you want to apply and see what happens. I have nothing close to top 25%, but a great resume got me an interview. If you want to clerk for the right reasons, you'll make it happen. If you don't, well, I can't help you there haha.