starting clerkship before bar?? helppp Forum

[DELG]

OP, can you tell us what your general school rank and class rank is? If you are, say top 25% at a T25 or top 1/2 at a T10, getting a clerkship = basically winning the lottery. Damn the bar, pursue this clerkship, tell the judge you could start tomorrow if that's what he wants.

It's like winning the lottery for an unemployed person at any rank, IMO. If OP is top 5% t14 he's still in trouble.

[Holly Golightly]

Also, yes, working will make studying for the bar harder, but it does not by any means mean that OP will fail. I also would say asking for the week before the bar off is fine. I just agree with the poster who said that it's possible asking for extra time off or to work PT may indicate to the judge that you don't really care. And the judge is probably interviewing multiple people for that spot. If it were me, I would go all in.

But again, even though it's bizarre as hell, the OP doesn't seem to really want this or care that much. Saying the bar is more important than a clerkship is fucking insane to me when you don't have anything else lined up. But do what you want...

[Anonymous User]

Know what else is expensive? Not having a fucking job.

OP here.

I understand that for most career aspirations in most states, lacking a job at this point is very scary and usually entails having been rejected by a ton of jobs/striking out at OCI/not turning a SA into a permanent position, etc. However, for my aspirations (State govt) in my state, not having a job at this point was something I always anticipated. In fact, I have only gotten rejected by one job I actually felt qualified to do, thus far. The notion of completely lacking a job is not a huge deal to me right now.

I understand that getting this interview is a really big deal/might be analogous to a lottery, though of course I do not have an offer. I am median at a t30, with some strong "softs" if you will, that probably got me the interview. Plus, the concept of him starting right away and probably needing somebody right away and my not having a job probably helped also.

Overall, I am really glad that I posted on this thread. I guess I was putting the bar exam at too high of a priority, where this is probably my only chance at a fed d court clerkship. I can probably figure out the rest later. If start date comes up, perhaps I will express a preference for a later one...but I will also say something about how if he needs somebody now, then I am more than willing to start immediately. That way, I express a preference, but don't run the risk of blowing the job.

[DELG]

Know what else is expensive? Not having a fucking job.

OP here.

I understand that for most career aspirations in most states, lacking a job at this point is very scary and usually entails having been rejected by a ton of jobs/striking out at OCI/not turning a SA into a permanent position, etc. However, for my aspirations (State govt) in my state, not having a job at this point was something I always anticipated. In fact, I have only gotten rejected by one job I actually felt qualified to do, thus far. The notion of completely lacking a job is not a huge deal to me right now.

I understand that getting this interview is a really big deal/might be analogous to a lottery, though of course I do not have an offer. I am median at a t30, with some strong "softs" if you will, that probably got me the interview. Plus, the concept of him starting right away and probably needing somebody right away and my not having a job probably helped also.

Overall, I am really glad that I posted on this thread. I guess I was putting the bar exam at too high of a priority, where this is probably my only chance at a fed d court clerkship. I can probably figure out the rest later. If start date comes up, perhaps I will express a preference for a later one...but I will also say something about how if he needs somebody now, then I am more than willing to start immediately. That way, I express a preference, but don't run the risk of blowing the job.

I knew someone like you. Who knew they wanted state govt. It took a little under 2 YEARS POST GRAD to get a permanent job.

TWO YEARS

TWO WHOLE YEARS

[DELG]

With better credentials than you. And a great background for what that person was seeking. And that person would have been a lot better off in the search with a fed clerkship.

[JoeFish]

Know what else is expensive? Not having a fucking job.

But

Also, it just doesn't really seem like you want this. Bar and bar trip seem more important to you, based on your posts. And if that's the case, don't do it.

[rpupkin]

If start date comes up, perhaps I will express a preference for a later one...but I will also say something about how if he needs somebody now, then I am more than willing to start immediately. That way, I express a preference, but don't run the risk of blowing the job.

I think that's reasonable. Good luck, OP.

[Citizen Genet]

If start date comes up, perhaps I will express a preference for a later one...but I will also say something about how if he needs somebody now, then I am more than willing to start immediately. That way, I express a preference, but don't run the risk of blowing the job.

I think this is a good plan given that you value the clerking as high as you do. Best of luck OP.

[DELG]

I just gotta go on record saying I don't think OP should ask to defer a year. At all.

[Anonymous User]

With better credentials than you. And a great background for what that person was seeking. And that person would have been a lot better off in the search with a fed clerkship.

OP here

You have no idea if she has better credentials for state govt work than I do because you don't know my relevant credentials. All you know is my school (best in the area) and my class rank, which is...fine. At least in my state (for the work I want to do), school and rank matter far less than a ton of other stuff, all of which I have and all of which I've worked for four years to attain (network of people who will go to bat for you at any time being #1). For that reason, I've basically gotten what sounded like at least one soft offer at one of my top-choice places assuming bar passage. Granted I know that it's not a "firm" offer, but they also can't give offers before bar results as a policy. I have very legitimate reason to not be worried about getting a state govt job within some months of taking the bar at most. I am sorry about your friend's situation, but I have decent reason to believe that it differs from mine.

All of that being said, the more I think about it, the more I want this clerkship. I just think the potential prestige and door-opening-ness of the whole thing did not hit me when I originally started this thread. Many of you pointed this out haha. Since I've started this thread, I've managed to get a 90% refund on the trip, and changed my entire outlook on the bar exam vs. clerkship, thanks to the collective wisdom of TLS (again, guys, I really appreciate it). Additionally, I am doing pretty well on the MBE Q's and I've been bar studying a month. One of the prior posters was right-I also can't be SURE that I will fail if I start work in a couple weeks. I'm still signed up for the bar. I'll give it my all and if I fail, I'll deal with it in time.

So yeah--I think I have a plan. I'll go all in for interview prep. I have to say that I still think I am a long shot for it, but I won't forgive myself if I do not go all out.

Thanks again guys.

[MarkRenton]

Probably not.

I mean, if you don't want the clerkship now then sure, ask during the interview if the judge would consider hiring you for next year. Otherwise, no.

Also, it just doesn't really seem like you want this. Bar and bar trip seem more important to you, based on your posts. And if that's the case, don't do it.

the bar exam is more important. of course, i want to become a practicing attorney. the bar trip is not important--i've already cancelled the flights (it was within 24 hours so this was possible). i can always book them again if I don't get the offer.

I mean don't we all want to become practicing attorneys? i want to pass the bar. if i don't pass the bar in july, do i really have a better chance at passing it in feb? the following july? I just don't think that I am out of line in saying that.

You fundamentally don't get it. Passing the bar does NOT make you a practicing lawyer. Getting paid by an employer to practice the law, that makes you a lawyer. Himming and hawwing over the bar versus a fed clerkship when you don't have an actual job is... just...

[Anonymous User]

Probably not.

I mean, if you don't want the clerkship now then sure, ask during the interview if the judge would consider hiring you for next year. Otherwise, no.

Also, it just doesn't really seem like you want this. Bar and bar trip seem more important to you, based on your posts. And if that's the case, don't do it.

the bar exam is more important. of course, i want to become a practicing attorney. the bar trip is not important--i've already cancelled the flights (it was within 24 hours so this was possible). i can always book them again if I don't get the offer.

I mean don't we all want to become practicing attorneys? i want to pass the bar. if i don't pass the bar in july, do i really have a better chance at passing it in feb? the following july? I just don't think that I am out of line in saying that.

You fundamentally don't get it. Passing the bar does NOT make you a practicing lawyer. Getting paid by an employer to practice the law, that makes you a lawyer. Himming and hawwing over the bar versus a fed clerkship when you don't have an actual job is... just...

OP here. You are right. I didn't get it. I get it now, thanks to you guys. Eff the bar. I'm going all out for the clerkship.

[Total Litigator]

Probably not.

I mean, if you don't want the clerkship now then sure, ask during the interview if the judge would consider hiring you for next year. Otherwise, no.

Also, it just doesn't really seem like you want this. Bar and bar trip seem more important to you, based on your posts. And if that's the case, don't do it.

the bar exam is more important. of course, i want to become a practicing attorney. the bar trip is not important--i've already cancelled the flights (it was within 24 hours so this was possible). i can always book them again if I don't get the offer.

I mean don't we all want to become practicing attorneys? i want to pass the bar. if i don't pass the bar in july, do i really have a better chance at passing it in feb? the following july? I just don't think that I am out of line in saying that.

You fundamentally don't get it. Passing the bar does NOT make you a practicing lawyer. Getting paid by an employer to practice the law, that makes you a lawyer. Himming and hawwing over the bar versus a fed clerkship when you don't have an actual job is... just...

OP here. You are right. I didn't get it. I get it now, thanks to you guys. Eff the bar. I'm going all out for the clerkship.

Nice, this is smart.

There are about 750 district court judges and 180 COA judges, so clerking Art. III is prestigious shit. And plenty of top 5%'s at T14's do strike out.

Best of luck, sounds like the state job will be there for you later anyways.

Also, I think bar exam is slightly overrated. I studied 6 hours a day, 5-6 days a week for two months, but blew it out of the water. If you study as much as you can, you should have a good shot of passing anyway.

[Anonymous User]

I respect your decision, but IMO this is a no brainer. Clerkship first, then worry about the bar later. You can always take the bar, but you wont always have the clerkship opp. Also, clerkship would only open more doors for you, state or fed. Lastly, most government jobs would hire you without passing the bar as long as you pass the bar within a certain period of time after you started. Just my two cents, you know your circumstances better than us so whatever you decide, wish you all the best!

[Anonymous User]

sooooo that was silly. his clerk misled me on the phone...though i am sure she just didn't know the story. if i were to start with him, it would be immediately after the bar. that being said, i'm sure he appreciated my expressed willingness to start as soon as he needed me. had the interview today. it felt good, but we will see. thanks all!

[Anonymous User]

I recently started a clerkship where they needed people ASAP. That was explicitly made known from the beginning, and it really affected the hiring process. By that I mean my co-clerk and I probably would have had no shot otherwise.

I cannot emphasize how much I love clerking. This is truly a once in a lifetime chance. If I were you, I would do it with no questions asked. I lost a lot of money due to breaking my lease and moving far on a whim, but it was certainly worth it.

But if you really have to hesitate about it, it's totally fine to ask about start dates.

[Holly Golightly]

sooooo that was silly. his clerk misled me on the phone...though i am sure she just didn't know the story. if i were to start with him, it would be immediately after the bar. that being said, i'm sure he appreciated my expressed willingness to start as soon as he needed me. had the interview today. it felt good, but we will see. thanks all!

Glad it went well and that you would get to start after the bar. I hope you get it

[Ohiobumpkin]

The idea that you're considering turning down a federal clerkship without a job lined up because you want to take a licensing test you won't even need for at least a year is amazing to me.

It's perfectly reasonable to ask the judge post-offer if you can push your start date off until August (it's not rare for new judges to get by with only 1 clerk or whatever for a month or two), but be prepared for him/her to say no.

[objctnyrhnr]

got the job. obviously took it. thanks to all for the advice.

[Holly Golightly]

Congrats, I'm glad it worked out

[Anonymous User]

I recently started a clerkship where they needed people ASAP. That was explicitly made known from the beginning, and it really affected the hiring process. By that I mean my co-clerk and I probably would have had no shot otherwise.

I cannot emphasize how much I love clerking. This is truly a once in a lifetime chance. If I were you, I would do it with no questions asked. I lost a lot of money due to breaking my lease and moving far on a whim, but it was certainly worth it.

But if you really have to hesitate about it, it's totally fine to ask about start dates.

How do such clerkships become available? Old clerk leaves or something unfortunate like that? How do you even find out about them?

Ps... this is pokemon. Did not mean anon.

[A. Nony Mouse]

For federal clerkships, check the US courts page? (As opposed to OSCAR.) I've seen short-notice and short-term clerkships posted there, usually when someone decides to leave. I suspect also that judges let their networks know to spread the word, and might post a job through his/her alma mater or the local schools, too.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Also, congrats, OP!!! So glad it worked out for you.

[Holly Golightly]

I also know of a couple of judges who decided late to hire an extra clerk because their dockets ended up being busier than anticipated.

[objctnyrhnr]

thanks everybody and thanks so much for the advice. it seems like I will be able to study for the bar without interruption (but not go on the trip) after all. all of the thoughts were much appreciated.

on an unrelated note, I realized that I started as an anon with this thread, but I have not been consistent with that in my responses haha oops