LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

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thirtyandseven
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LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby thirtyandseven » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:38 am

Could well be a dumb question, but thankfully this is teh internetz.

I transferred from a mid-30s school to a T20 (better for location + career interests). Wrote on to LR at the 1L school, but only got secondary journal at the new school due to spending most of the transfer write-on trying to find a place to live in the new city.

Anyway, I am interested in Article III judges. Does the invite from the 1L write-on mitigate my lack of LR at the new school? If yes, should I just put it on the resume and be done with it, or do I put it in the cover letter as well? If no, is there something else I can do to mitigate it?

Thanks for any input!

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Wholigan
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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby Wholigan » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:38 am

I wouldn't put it in the cover letter. An invite to LR that you didn't accept doesn't tell the judge very much. It's not like you actually did anything. The cover letter should tell the judge about things that aren't on your resume. If the judge wants LR membership, nothing is going to be able to mitigate it, but fortunately there are plenty of AIII judges who are cool with secondary membership. Eventually, I think it should drop off your resume also. Some would probably say that time is after you get your 2L job at your new school, but if you are still a 2L and don't have a lot of activity to fill the law school section of your resume yet, it's probably OK to keep there for now.

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:39 pm

thirtyandseven wrote:Anyway, I am interested in Article III judges. Does the invite from the 1L write-on mitigate my lack of LR at the new school? If yes, should I just put it on the resume and be done with it, or do I put it in the cover letter as well? If no, is there something else I can do to mitigate it?

I clerk for a COA judge and I've screened at least a couple hundred clerkship apps. I've seen a few transfers note on their resumes that they were invited to join LR at their 1L law school. Trust me, it does not come off well.

I think it's a bad idea for a couple of reasons. First, it makes it look like you're more concerned with obtaining prestige than you are with actually doing work. Second, it draws attention to the fact that you are not on law review at your new school. Don't do it.

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
thirtyandseven wrote:Anyway, I am interested in Article III judges. Does the invite from the 1L write-on mitigate my lack of LR at the new school? If yes, should I just put it on the resume and be done with it, or do I put it in the cover letter as well? If no, is there something else I can do to mitigate it?

I clerk for a COA judge and I've screened at least a couple hundred clerkship apps. I've seen a few transfers note on their resumes that they were invited to join LR at their 1L law school. Trust me, it does not come off well.

I think it's a bad idea for a couple of reasons. First, it makes it look like you're more concerned with obtaining prestige than you are with actually doing work. Second, it draws attention to the fact that you are not on law review at your new school. Don't do it.


+1. I've been reviewing lots of apps. I am really starting to realize how desperate some things sound -- things that I am sure I have written before or thought of writing (so don't take this as a personal attack, please). This is one of those things. You just come off like you're trying to squeeze water out of stones.

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby thirtyandseven » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:03 pm

Thank you all for very helpful replies. I will leave it off my applications.

EDIT: changed to reflect the third response, also much appreciated.

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby bruinfan10 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
thirtyandseven wrote:Anyway, I am interested in Article III judges. Does the invite from the 1L write-on mitigate my lack of LR at the new school? If yes, should I just put it on the resume and be done with it, or do I put it in the cover letter as well? If no, is there something else I can do to mitigate it?

I clerk for a COA judge and I've screened at least a couple hundred clerkship apps. I've seen a few transfers note on their resumes that they were invited to join LR at their 1L law school. Trust me, it does not come off well.

I think it's a bad idea for a couple of reasons. First, it makes it look like you're more concerned with obtaining prestige than you are with actually doing work. Second, it draws attention to the fact that you are not on law review at your new school. Don't do it.


+1. I've been reviewing lots of apps. I am really starting to realize how desperate some things sound -- things that I am sure I have written before or thought of writing (so don't take this as a personal attack, please). This is one of those things. You just come off like you're trying to squeeze water out of stones.

I won't start reviewing apps for either of my judges until this time next year at earliest, but I think these two clerks are being overly negative - I'd definitely include a quick line under your 1L school that you were invited onto law review.

The two clerks above likely come from schools where you just grade onto law review, which is common, and understandably would see the invite as adding no information beyond what's included on your transcripts. But there are lots of schools with a LR write-on component, and clerks with that knowledge might look favorably on you including it as a quick resume line. I definitely wouldn't mention it in your cover letter though.

As to the clerk who mentioned the resume line would "indicate you're more interested in prestige than work" or whatever, respectfully I think that's just the craziness that comes with having to differentiate between a thousand insanely qualified applicants. That's like me looking at people who highlight their travel and study abroad experiences heavily and thinking, I couldn't afford that study-abroad at Oxford, these people must be awfully entitled/spoiled. You can't plan for people's psychoanalytic idiosyncrasies, so I would personally recommend you take that analysis with a grain of salt.

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:10 am

My school's LR was write-on (entirely write-on), and I still don't think I'd include the original invite. I know people tend to think of getting on LR as the accomplishment, but in theory the point of having LR on your resume is to show that you actually did the work of LR. To the extent it shows anything about you (which is highly debatable), sure, it shows you had great grades (which, I agree, your transcript will show) and/or write well, but it also shows that you can grind through a lot of tedious work in which you have no personal interest, presumably on-time, and suggests that you possess a strong attention to detail. If you weren't actually on the LR, you can't claim these latter things.

(I realize that in practice it's the signaling/prestige of LR that probably matters most, and I know the credited wisdom around here is to do as little work on LR as possible, but I still think that to the extent judges care about LR, they do care at least somewhat that you've done the work of LR - or at least, that you will have by the time you start clerking for them. And an invite doesn't help with this.)

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby bruinfan10 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:20 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:My school's LR was write-on (entirely write-on), and I still don't think I'd include the original invite. I know people tend to think of getting on LR as the accomplishment, but in theory the point of having LR on your resume is to show that you actually did the work of LR. To the extent it shows anything about you (which is highly debatable), sure, it shows you had great grades (which, I agree, your transcript will show) and/or write well, but it also shows that you can grind through a lot of tedious work in which you have no personal interest, presumably on-time, and suggests that you possess a strong attention to detail. If you weren't actually on the LR, you can't claim these latter things.

(I realize that in practice it's the signaling/prestige of LR that probably matters most, and I know the credited wisdom around here is to do as little work on LR as possible, but I still think that to the extent judges care about LR, they do care at least somewhat that you've done the work of LR - or at least, that you will have by the time you start clerking for them. And an invite doesn't help with this.)

As usual, I think Nony makes a strong point. No one would argue adding four words ("Invited to Law Review") under your 1L school in the education section of your resume would be as useful as a position on your transfer school's LR (or even secondary journal), but to say as our Freudian clerk friend did earlier that it indicates you're more into prestige than work overstates the point. I think it's worth a short mention, because what's the downside? But like Nony said, it's not gonna make up for missing LR at the new school.

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:19 pm

bruinfan10 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:My school's LR was write-on (entirely write-on), and I still don't think I'd include the original invite. I know people tend to think of getting on LR as the accomplishment, but in theory the point of having LR on your resume is to show that you actually did the work of LR. To the extent it shows anything about you (which is highly debatable), sure, it shows you had great grades (which, I agree, your transcript will show) and/or write well, but it also shows that you can grind through a lot of tedious work in which you have no personal interest, presumably on-time, and suggests that you possess a strong attention to detail. If you weren't actually on the LR, you can't claim these latter things.

(I realize that in practice it's the signaling/prestige of LR that probably matters most, and I know the credited wisdom around here is to do as little work on LR as possible, but I still think that to the extent judges care about LR, they do care at least somewhat that you've done the work of LR - or at least, that you will have by the time you start clerking for them. And an invite doesn't help with this.)

As usual, I think Nony makes a strong point. No one would argue adding four words ("Invited to Law Review") under your 1L school in the education section of your resume would be as useful as a position on your transfer school's LR (or even secondary journal), but to say as our Freudian clerk friend did earlier that it indicates you're more into prestige than work overstates the point. I think it's worth a short mention, because what's the downside? But like Nony said, it's not gonna make up for missing LR at the new school.


Second anon from above. I agree with A Nony and bruinfan. I think that not including it makes your application more professional. That being said, if you include it, I personally won't ding you for it. (I know snooty clerks who would, but I think they're the exception.) It just gives me a mental image that you're trying to compensate. On the edges, I think that matters. But it won't be something that kills an application.

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:19 pm

bruinfan10 wrote:As to the clerk who mentioned the resume line would "indicate you're more interested in prestige than work" or whatever, respectfully I think that's just the craziness that comes with having to differentiate between a thousand insanely qualified applicants. That's like me looking at people who highlight their travel and study abroad experiences heavily and thinking, I couldn't afford that study-abroad at Oxford, these people must be awfully entitled/spoiled. You can't plan for people's psychoanalytic idiosyncrasies, so I would personally recommend you take that analysis with a grain of salt.

I think you should be a little less caviler about urging clerkship applicants to disregard the advice of current clerks. When I was in your shoes a year ago (i.e., a 3L who hadn't started clerking), I would not have advised someone to leave the "I was accepted to a law review" line off of the resume. But after seeing how the apps are screened, you get a sense for what kinds of things undermine the strength of an application. (Another tip: don't list SA offers from law firms that you did not accept.)

Yeah, I'm not going to autoding you just because you listed an offer to join a law review at your 1L school, but it's going to make your application seem a little less weighty. When you've got clerks and JAs spending just a minute or so per application, those quick impressions can make the difference between your app getting forwarded to the judge and your app going into the reject pile.

For what it's worth, my school's law review was entirely write-on.

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:48 pm

.

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby bruinfan10 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:09 pm

I wrote a long response, but I think two current clerks and A. Nony Mouse coming down on the other side of this issue might mean I'm doing more harm than good. Take my original comments for what they were -- I think you'll find that some people reviewing applications don't see it as a negative, and it might help ever-so-slightly to make up for the significant negative of not getting onto the transfer school's LR.

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby Backpacker » Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:34 pm

Wow, well I have no idea what to do now. Career services literally just told me to put the former school's LR acceptance on my resume, as well as to indicate that I was extended an offer to return to my 1L firm despite turning it down. And then I saw this thread.

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby bruinfan10 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:46 pm

Backpacker wrote:Wow, well I have no idea what to do now. Career services literally just told me to put the former school's LR acceptance on my resume, as well as to indicate that I was extended an offer to return to my 1L firm despite turning it down. And then I saw this thread.

I had a lot of people tell me to leave "Offer Extended" on my resume and I got D.Ct & CoA (feeder)...I think there's a wide variety of opinions and it varies by judge (or reviewing clerk). But the two clerks opposed to putting a LR invite on your resume both said it wouldn't be a dealbreaker. I personally think the more you can do to make up for not being on your transfer school's LR, the better.

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby thirtyandseven » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:53 pm

Again, thank you to everyone for the thoughtful responses. I appreciate reading a different perspective, and I think everyone in the same position as me will benefit from getting both sides of the argument here.

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:04 am

bruinfan10 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
thirtyandseven wrote:Anyway, I am interested in Article III judges. Does the invite from the 1L write-on mitigate my lack of LR at the new school? If yes, should I just put it on the resume and be done with it, or do I put it in the cover letter as well? If no, is there something else I can do to mitigate it?

I clerk for a COA judge and I've screened at least a couple hundred clerkship apps. I've seen a few transfers note on their resumes that they were invited to join LR at their 1L law school. Trust me, it does not come off well.

I think it's a bad idea for a couple of reasons. First, it makes it look like you're more concerned with obtaining prestige than you are with actually doing work. Second, it draws attention to the fact that you are not on law review at your new school. Don't do it.


+1. I've been reviewing lots of apps. I am really starting to realize how desperate some things sound -- things that I am sure I have written before or thought of writing (so don't take this as a personal attack, please). This is one of those things. You just come off like you're trying to squeeze water out of stones.

I won't start reviewing apps for either of my judges until this time next year at earliest, but I think these two clerks are being overly negative - I'd definitely include a quick line under your 1L school that you were invited onto law review.

The two clerks above likely come from schools where you just grade onto law review, which is common, and understandably would see the invite as adding no information beyond what's included on your transcripts. But there are lots of schools with a LR write-on component, and clerks with that knowledge might look favorably on you including it as a quick resume line. I definitely wouldn't mention it in your cover letter though.

As to the clerk who mentioned the resume line would "indicate you're more interested in prestige than work" or whatever, respectfully I think that's just the craziness that comes with having to differentiate between a thousand insanely qualified applicants. That's like me looking at people who highlight their travel and study abroad experiences heavily and thinking, I couldn't afford that study-abroad at Oxford, these people must be awfully entitled/spoiled. You can't plan for people's psychoanalytic idiosyncrasies, so I would personally recommend you take that analysis with a grain of salt.


Current clerk here who recently hired my replacement from ~300 applications. I agree with this.

My school had an almost entirely grade-blind write-on competition, so showing you that you wrote-on to LR is, IMO, a worthwhile and noteworthy achievement from 1L year. I would not view it as petty. (But I also wouldn't view any respectable achievement on someone's resume as petty.)

And w/r/t looking at LR as an achievement for the actual work, come on. Everyone--judges included--knows that getting onto LR is a competition for everyone else who doesn't grade-on (at least at every school I've heard of). It's a somewhat reasonable indicator that someone has the qualities that make a good clerk: strong writing, editing, and Bluebooking skills. And it's an indicator that someone is better at these things than presumably upwards of 90% of his/her class is (or at least was at the end of 1L).

In a field that is prestige-obsessed, I don't know of anyone who would hold it against you for humblebragging on your resume. I would expect it, actually.

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:45 am

Anonymous User wrote:And w/r/t looking at LR as an achievement for the actual work, come on. Everyone--judges included--knows that getting onto LR is a competition for everyone else who doesn't grade-on (at least at every school I've heard of). It's a somewhat reasonable indicator that someone has the qualities that make a good clerk: strong writing, editing, and Bluebooking skills. And it's an indicator that someone is better at these things than presumably upwards of 90% of his/her class is (or at least was at the end of 1L).

Of course, but it's also a proxy for capacity to do a lot of boring work on another person's shit. "Accomplishment" was a poor word choice on my part, but I do seriously believe that one reason why employers (including judges) favor LR is as a proxy for precisely that ability. I don't mean to overstate this in the context of how it shows up on OP's resume (since they will have a journal), it's just something else to consider. (It does come across a little bit like listing a job you were offered but turned down.)

And it's funny how you can look at two resumes that are overall fairly similar and get a really strong impression from one (but not the other) that its author is trying incredibly hard to upsell everything as much as they can. I know we all do this, and should do this, but there's something about when the effort shows - it just leaves an impression.

All that said - I certainly wouldn't ding someone for putting the 1L LR offer on their resume. I have to admit I've never seen it done, but I probably just haven't seen enough transfer resumes.

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:08 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:And w/r/t looking at LR as an achievement for the actual work, come on. Everyone--judges included--knows that getting onto LR is a competition for everyone else who doesn't grade-on (at least at every school I've heard of). It's a somewhat reasonable indicator that someone has the qualities that make a good clerk: strong writing, editing, and Bluebooking skills. And it's an indicator that someone is better at these things than presumably upwards of 90% of his/her class is (or at least was at the end of 1L).

Of course, but it's also a proxy for capacity to do a lot of boring work on another person's shit. "Accomplishment" was a poor word choice on my part, but I do seriously believe that one reason why employers (including judges) favor LR is as a proxy for precisely that ability. I don't mean to overstate this in the context of how it shows up on OP's resume (since they will have a journal), it's just something else to consider. (It does come across a little bit like listing a job you were offered but turned down.)

And it's funny how you can look at two resumes that are overall fairly similar and get a really strong impression from one (but not the other) that its author is trying incredibly hard to upsell everything as much as they can. I know we all do this, and should do this, but there's something about when the effort shows - it just leaves an impression.

All that said - I certainly wouldn't ding someone for putting the 1L LR offer on their resume. I have to admit I've never seen it done, but I probably just haven't seen enough transfer resumes.


I agree with all of this. I was an EIC, know the Bluebook better than anyone I know (this is embarrassing--I'm not trying to brag), and spent a ludicrous amount of time editing nonsense. I still don't put much stock into the actual value of LR/journals. This is primarily because I don't know of anyone who thinks Bluebooking really matters. Every single judge I've talked to says they just want cites that can help them find the cited source. I assure you plenty of judges do not know the Bluebook well at all. And LR/journal is not a good proxy for having a good eye or attention to detail, IMO.

Most importantly, I know of very, very few people who took LR/journal seriously. So I question how much work anyone actually put into their LR/journals.

But I do agree that resumes can scream overcompensation. One thing that comes to mind is people who list things like Golden Key and Who's Who nominations. I think people literally pay for these things and it just looks incredibly tacky. Stating that you go onto LR at your 1L school is an accomplishment that's worth noting on your resume, IMO.

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:50 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:(It does come across a little bit like listing a job you were offered but turned down.)

Say you're hoping to transition from a V5 to a boutique after an SDNY clerkship. Say a clerk asked you during your SDNY interview (like basically every clerk asked me in my 7+ interviews over two cycles) where you would want to work after the clerkship ended. Say you mention wanting to work at the boutique, not your summer firm, where most people would be planning on returning. Would the interviewing clerk wonder (possibly out loud, if they lack tact, although at least then you could explain it away) whether your V5 no-offered you (this is even more likely if the lit boutique is regional, like many of them are...do you know how selective Altshuler Berzon is, for example? Have you heard of them?)

I'm just saying there are concrete reasons you might want to list "Offer Extended" beyond this ethereal concept of "upselling." Just like I think there are concrete reasons a transfer might want to list their LR offer if they didn't make LR at their new school. And it's a little disheartening to think that resume conventions like "Offer Extended" or a LR Invite can negatively impact an application, when there are so many other easy ways to winnow the stack.

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:(It does come across a little bit like listing a job you were offered but turned down.)

Say you're hoping to transition from a V5 to a boutique after an SDNY clerkship. Say a clerk asked you during your SDNY interview (like basically every clerk asked me in my 7+ interviews over two cycles) where you would want to work after the clerkship ended. Say you mention wanting to work at the boutique, not your summer firm, where most people would be planning on returning. Would the interviewing clerk wonder (possibly out loud, if they lack tact, although at least then you could explain it away) whether your V5 no-offered you (this is even more likely if the lit boutique is regional, like many of them are...do you know how selective Altshuler Berzon is, for example? Have you heard of them?)

I'm just saying there are concrete reasons you might want to list "Offer Extended" beyond this ethereal concept of "upselling." Just like I think there are concrete reasons a transfer might want to list their LR offer if they didn't make LR at their new school. And it's a little disheartening to think that resume conventions like "Offer Extended" or a LR Invite can negatively impact an application, when there are so many other easy ways to winnow the stack.

I think we're talking at cross-purposes, so I should be clearer: when I said "listing a job you were offered but turned down," I was not referring to indicating that you got a full-time offer from your summer firm. For one thing, there was an earlier post in this thread, now deleted, which I read as saying that people were listing the firms where they received offers to summer during 2L, including firms they turned down, not as saying that people were listing permanent offers (because it's deleted I can't tell if I read it wrong, which may well have happened, though I was thinking this in part because a lot of clerkship interviewing, these days, takes place before full-time offers are extended). For another, a lot of people interviewing for clerkships accept their firms' offers to return after the clerkship, or leave them open for the purposes of clerking, so when I see a reference to offers being turned down, I think of "chose to go elsewhere for 2L summer" (it's probably a sad comment on the state of the legal job market that someone turning down their full-time biglaw offer doesn't even really occur to me). So I realize I didn't make this at all clear, but in my comment above I wasn't talking about saying "offer extended" next to the firm where you actually went your 2L summer.

Plus, it's easy to say "don't do this one thing" or "always do this one thing," but resumes are more holistic than that, so I'm quite sure "offer extended" could come across one way on one resume and come across another way on another. So I don't mean to suggest there's any kind of mechanistic approach to this, where if you don't follow the True Way you're doing it wrong.

But I'll stand by my comment that some resumes say "upsell" in an almost indefinable way, but one you can detect when you're skimming a bunch of them at once. It doesn't mean I'd ding someone for that, but it does leave an impression. And something else I probably should have specified: when I say "upsell," I'm talking about resumes where the authors are trying to massage slightly ordinary accomplishments into something they're not, rather than being able to let their accomplishments stand on their own. As I said, obviously we're all trying to make ourselves look as great as we can, and we all should be doing that. It's just that sometimes there's only so far you can stretch things. (I used this analogy in another thread, but when I taught, sometimes I'd have students come in over and over again to get feedback on drafts of a paper, and they'd work really hard at improving, and in the end, they'd be disappointed because no matter how much work they put in and how much they polished that paper, it was still a B paper, because in that particular context and that particular subject, they just had B-grade ideas.)

And finally (sorry, long, I know), you have to remember that I am a very plebeian (ex-)clerk and that's doubtless reflected in my experience with clerkship applications. If you're at a V5 and aiming for Altshuler Berzon, I can't imagine any of these caveats apply to you. Because yes, I have heard of them, and yes, I do know how selective they are, and in an alternate universe where I had anything like the requisite qualifications, they'd be my dream job, too. So I'll just wish you the best of luck getting there.

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:43 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I think we're talking at cross-purposes, so I should be clearer: when I said "listing a job you were offered but turned down," I was not referring to indicating that you got a full-time offer from your summer firm. For one thing, there was an earlier post in this thread, now deleted, which I read as saying that people were listing the firms where they received offers to summer during 2L, including firms they turned down, not as saying that people were listing permanent offers (because it's deleted I can't tell if I read it wrong, which may well have happened, though I was thinking this in part because a lot of clerkship interviewing, these days, takes place before full-time offers are extended). For another, a lot of people interviewing for clerkships accept their firms' offers to return after the clerkship, or leave them open for the purposes of clerking, so when I see a reference to offers being turned down, I think of "chose to go elsewhere for 2L summer" (it's probably a sad comment on the state of the legal job market that someone turning down their full-time biglaw offer doesn't even really occur to me). So I realize I didn't make this at all clear, but in my comment above I wasn't talking about saying "offer extended" next to the firm where you actually went your 2L summer.

Plus, it's easy to say "don't do this one thing" or "always do this one thing," but resumes are more holistic than that, so I'm quite sure "offer extended" could come across one way on one resume and come across another way on another. So I don't mean to suggest there's any kind of mechanistic approach to this, where if you don't follow the True Way you're doing it wrong.

But I'll stand by my comment that some resumes say "upsell" in an almost indefinable way, but one you can detect when you're skimming a bunch of them at once. It doesn't mean I'd ding someone for that, but it does leave an impression. And something else I probably should have specified: when I say "upsell," I'm talking about resumes where the authors are trying to massage slightly ordinary accomplishments into something they're not, rather than being able to let their accomplishments stand on their own. As I said, obviously we're all trying to make ourselves look as great as we can, and we all should be doing that. It's just that sometimes there's only so far you can stretch things. (I used this analogy in another thread, but when I taught, sometimes I'd have students come in over and over again to get feedback on drafts of a paper, and they'd work really hard at improving, and in the end, they'd be disappointed because no matter how much work they put in and how much they polished that paper, it was still a B paper, because in that particular context and that particular subject, they just had B-grade ideas.)

And finally (sorry, long, I know), you have to remember that I am a very plebeian (ex-)clerk and that's doubtless reflected in my experience with clerkship applications. If you're at a V5 and aiming for Altshuler Berzon, I can't imagine any of these caveats apply to you. Because yes, I have heard of them, and yes, I do know how selective they are, and in an alternate universe where I had anything like the requisite qualifications, they'd be my dream job, too. So I'll just wish you the best of luck getting there.

This post wins the thread. I completely agree that resumes are holistic and there's no "one true way." I think applicants have to determine, based on their credentials, what "upselling ordinary accomplishments" means on the one hand (i.e. a bad choice that might well--and deservedly--get you dinged) and what "showcasing your important selling points/compensating for your application's weaknesses" means on the other hand.

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby BVest » Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:46 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Of course, but it's also a proxy for capacity to do a lot of boring work on another person's shit.


Well, it is to some extent. But with the explosion of the plan, it really doesn't tell you all that much. It says you (presumably) put in the hours working on someone else's material for one semester so far, assuming it's not for a judge who wanted the application last October in which case it only says you've done it for a month.

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:47 pm

BVest wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Of course, but it's also a proxy for capacity to do a lot of boring work on another person's shit.


Well, it is to some extent. But with the explosion of the plan, it really doesn't tell you all that much. It says you (presumably) put in the hours working on someone else's material for one semester so far, assuming it's not for a judge who wanted the application last October in which case it only says you've done it for a month.

Yeah, that's true - my applications were all before the plan death. I do think having LR on there, though, shows that you will have gone through all the boring crap by the time you get to the judge's chambers.

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Re: LR invite at mid-30s school before transfer--worth anything?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:22 pm

To add a third perspective (as a current district court clerk who reviews applications), I can say that it would not make a difference one way or another in our chambers. We do care that candidates were on a journal (it shows that candidates didn't mail it in after 1L, can tolerate occasionally boring work, and have some familiarity with the bluebook), but we don't really put a lot of stock in being on LR as opposed to a serious secondary journal (so not the Journal of Space Law, Journal of Animal Law, etc.). We can get a good picture of candidates' ability from their grades (very important), work experience (somewhat important), and writing samples/recommendations (less important, really can only hurt you), so it's not as if we need to use LR as a proxy for ability. That said, we understand that candidates are trying to sell themselves and don't begrudge that one bit, and we would never hold it against a candidate that he or she put on a resume that she made LR at her 1L school.




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