2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

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ph14
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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby ph14 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:25 pm

bruinfan10 wrote:lol at professors or csos giving you up to date advice (unless a prof is walking your app over to chambers for you, obviously).

The thing about some current clerks and some 3Ls is that they might have sent out 150+ applications over a couple cycles, spoken to almost that many former clerks as part of the application process, interviewed around a dozen times with CoA and D.Ct judges. I'd say those people are pretty damn near the best source you're going to find on general clerkship hiring.

I'm not sure if someone in this thread is being ignorant and saying otherwise, but I thought I'd throw that out there. Also, I just want to say that Nony's advice went a long way toward getting me hired by a feeder, so there's that, if you're interested in finding credible advice.


I agree. Several TLS posters have given me some good advice that was incredibly helpful as I was going through the clerkship process as well (though some of them no longer post on this site as far as i'm aware (we miss you G.T.L. Rev.)).

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:53 pm

bruinfan10 wrote:lol at professors or csos giving you up to date advice (unless a prof is walking your app over to chambers for you, obviously).

The thing about some current clerks and some 3Ls is that they might have sent out 150+ applications over a couple cycles, spoken to almost that many former clerks as part of the application process, interviewed around a dozen times with CoA and D.Ct judges. I'd say those people are pretty damn near the best source you're going to find on general clerkship hiring.

I'm not sure if someone in this thread is being ignorant and saying otherwise, but I thought I'd throw that out there. Also, I just want to say that Nony's advice went a long way toward getting me hired by a feeder, so there's that, if you're interested in finding credible advice.

This seriously makes me extremely happy. So so glad anything I said was helpful. (I too learned at the feet of the master, G.T.L.Rev.)

The scary thing is how quickly the process can change. I feel like clerkship hiring changed a lot just in the time I was in law school (particularly thinking of the shift to alumni hiring), and now that the plan is dead, I'm sure it will continue to change.

TT anon, I don't know much about the 2nd Circuit (though I'd agree they seem prestige-whore-ish), but if there are any judges who are alumni of your school it might be worth applying to them. Also, though your CSO may not generally be helpful, they should be able to tell you where alumni of your school have clerked, so you can see if any if your school's alums have ended up somewhere in the 2nd Circuit (and consequently if there are judges willing to hire from your school).

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:33 pm

At this point in the cycle, how long is the typical (if there even is such thing) wait to hear about interviews? I sent a round of applications out last week and have heard from only one judge. I'm not despairing - I know it's still on the earlyish end - but I'm trying to figure out when I should send out another round, whether I should change my writing sample, whether to select a different combination of recommendations (I asked four professors), things like that.

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:04 pm

I just submitted an app in OSCAR with a huge fuck up. I spelled the judge's name wrong (I know, I know). If I withdraw the app, will I be able to upload a new cover letter and resubmit?

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I just submitted an app in OSCAR with a huge fuck up. I spelled the judge's name wrong (I know, I know). If I withdraw the app, will I be able to upload a new cover letter and resubmit?


Unfortunately not, unless there's some way of hacking the system. The only possible solution I can think of is if the judge has listed multiple positions for the same term. In that case, you could try withdrawing from one and submit for another. But you probably would have thought of that solution if it were an option. Were you particularly interested in this judge?

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:At this point in the cycle, how long is the typical (if there even is such thing) wait to hear about interviews? I sent a round of applications out last week and have heard from only one judge. I'm not despairing - I know it's still on the earlyish end - but I'm trying to figure out when I should send out another round, whether I should change my writing sample, whether to select a different combination of recommendations (I asked four professors), things like that.

I don't think there's any way to answer this unless you have some way to find out when the specific judge is hiring/how they handle their applications. Both judges I clerked for contacted me pretty much right away, but they both happen to look at apps as they come in. I'm sure some judges put every application in a big pile until a certain date/they get a critical mass, and then look at them all at once.

I don't know that you need to change your writing sample or LORs but I'm not sure there's a point in mailing in rounds any more. I know people have preferences/hierarchies in the judges they apply to, but I think you kinda have to apply everywhere you're willing to go and to make peace with the idea that you have no control over who hires you first (if any). The logistics are just so unclear that even spectacular candidates are stuck this way. (IMHO.)

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:58 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:At this point in the cycle, how long is the typical (if there even is such thing) wait to hear about interviews? I sent a round of applications out last week and have heard from only one judge. I'm not despairing - I know it's still on the earlyish end - but I'm trying to figure out when I should send out another round, whether I should change my writing sample, whether to select a different combination of recommendations (I asked four professors), things like that.

I don't think there's any way to answer this unless you have some way to find out when the specific judge is hiring/how they handle their applications. Both judges I clerked for contacted me pretty much right away, but they both happen to look at apps as they come in. I'm sure some judges put every application in a big pile until a certain date/they get a critical mass, and then look at them all at once.

I don't know that you need to change your writing sample or LORs but I'm not sure there's a point in mailing in rounds any more. I know people have preferences/hierarchies in the judges they apply to, but I think you kinda have to apply everywhere you're willing to go and to make peace with the idea that you have no control over who hires you first (if any). The logistics are just so unclear that even spectacular candidates are stuck this way. (IMHO.)


OP anon here. It's not a personal preference thing actually. I'd be happy to send out all my applications at once if I weren't so concerned about my writing sample. I'm a 2L and I'm using a brief from 1L year because my internship over the summer was terrible for WS purposes. I at least am confident about my 1L material being polished, so it seemed safer to use that than to send out a total wild card. I know the WS not the most important part of the application but my plan was to to test it out first before sending out everything since I only get one shot at these judges. Of course judges could be uninterested for entirely different reasons but the WS is the thing I'm most worried about.
Honestly swapping one of the recs I don't think would make a big difference, so it's mainly the WS that's been troubling me.

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:02 pm

I apologize if this is a stupid question. But does OSCAR provide the Judge's emails? If so where would I find it.

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby hoos89 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:13 pm

.
Last edited by hoos89 on Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:08 pm

hoos89 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I just submitted an app in OSCAR with a huge fuck up. I spelled the judge's name wrong (I know, I know). If I withdraw the app, will I be able to upload a new cover letter and resubmit?


Does the judge accept paper or e-mail applications? If so you might try withdrawing your app and submitting another one that way.

OSCAR only, and only has one position open on there. Oh well, guess I'll just start applying everywhere.

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP anon here. It's not a personal preference thing actually. I'd be happy to send out all my applications at once if I weren't so concerned about my writing sample. I'm a 2L and I'm using a brief from 1L year because my internship over the summer was terrible for WS purposes. I at least am confident about my 1L material being polished, so it seemed safer to use that than to send out a total wild card. I know the WS not the most important part of the application but my plan was to to test it out first before sending out everything since I only get one shot at these judges. Of course judges could be uninterested for entirely different reasons but the WS is the thing I'm most worried about.
Honestly swapping one of the recs I don't think would make a big difference, so it's mainly the WS that's been troubling me.

Ah, I see. I don't have any great advice - I don't think you're going to get some clear sign that the WS is/isn't a problem. Given the change in the timeline a lot of people are likely to be submitting a 1L sample, it seems to me. I don't know if you have some other potential WS in the timeline - if you know you'll have something else soon-ish, you have to just weigh the costs/benefits of waiting. (If you're thinking of a note, I don't think they're great samples for district court judges anyway, but COA judges seem to like them, so it depends how good it is compared to your 1L sample [my note sucked] and how many COA judges you're applying to, I suppose.)

Anonymous User wrote:I apologize if this is a stupid question. But does OSCAR provide the Judge's emails? If so where would I find it.

Nope, email isn't provided (unless the judge expressly takes applications via email. Most don't). If you're applying to a district court, many of the chambers will have a public email address available (because attorneys have to send things to the court all the time), but COA judges rarely do. And unless it's a judge you know who has specifically told you to apply to them directly, I wouldn't send an application to their personal email.

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:36 pm

What's the deal for dealing with interview etiquette. I mean if a judge calls you for an interview, you do have to decide on the spot whether to accept the interview or not? or can you tell them I'll get back to you tomorrow?

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What's the deal for dealing with interview etiquette. I mean if a judge calls you for an interview, you do have to decide on the spot whether to accept the interview or not? or can you tell them I'll get back to you tomorrow?

Why wouldn't you accept an interview? If something happened since applying (like you accepted an offer) and you're no longer on the market, you'd apologize for not having withdrawn yet and say you're not available. Or if for some reason your opinion about the judge has changed and you don't want to work for them, just say your plans have changed and you need to withdraw your application. But if you are available and still looking for a clerkship, what is there to consider for accepting an interview? (Do you say "can I get back to you about whether I want the interview" to any other employer? But I may just be missing something.)

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What's the deal for dealing with interview etiquette. I mean if a judge calls you for an interview, you do have to decide on the spot whether to accept the interview or not? or can you tell them I'll get back to you tomorrow?

If it is something you have to travel to, then by all means say you'll look at travel plans and get back to them tomorrow. But for a judge in your area you should probably accept on the spot--you really shouldn't have outstanding apps with a judge you have no interest in working for, so it is kind of bad form to turn down the interview--that said, it's better to turn down an interview than to waste further time going to an interview for a job you wouldn't accept.

FYI, unless you really can't afford the trip, in our chambers at least we'd much prefer people to fly out than interview by phone. It sends a bad signal when people aren't willing to make an effort to come interview in person.

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:44 pm

I recently applied by paper to a bunch of judges. One sent me a letter that I would like some help interpreting (in case this is relevant: given the date of the letter, he could not have received my letters of recommendation when he sent it).

The letter says that if I am planning to be in the area in the near future, I should contact the judge's secretary to set up an appointment for me to "come into chambers and speak with [the judge] regarding a 2015-16 clerkship."

Is this an invitation for an interview or something less formal? Obviously if I had plans to be in the area this would be a non-issue, but I live well over 1000 miles from this city, and I'm not entirely sure how to approach it.

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:24 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What's the deal for dealing with interview etiquette. I mean if a judge calls you for an interview, you do have to decide on the spot whether to accept the interview or not? or can you tell them I'll get back to you tomorrow?

Why wouldn't you accept an interview? If something happened since applying (like you accepted an offer) and you're no longer on the market, you'd apologize for not having withdrawn yet and say you're not available. Or if for some reason your opinion about the judge has changed and you don't want to work for them, just say your plans have changed and you need to withdraw your application. But if you are available and still looking for a clerkship, what is there to consider for accepting an interview? (Do you say "can I get back to you about whether I want the interview" to any other employer? But I may just be missing something.)

.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
hoos89 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I just submitted an app in OSCAR with a huge fuck up. I spelled the judge's name wrong (I know, I know). If I withdraw the app, will I be able to upload a new cover letter and resubmit?


Does the judge accept paper or e-mail applications? If so you might try withdrawing your app and submitting another one that way.

OSCAR only, and only has one position open on there. Oh well, guess I'll just start applying everywhere.

This is why I use the mail merge function, even if it's for a few judges.

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby ph14 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What's the deal for dealing with interview etiquette. I mean if a judge calls you for an interview, you do have to decide on the spot whether to accept the interview or not? or can you tell them I'll get back to you tomorrow?

Why wouldn't you accept an interview? If something happened since applying (like you accepted an offer) and you're no longer on the market, you'd apologize for not having withdrawn yet and say you're not available. Or if for some reason your opinion about the judge has changed and you don't want to work for them, just say your plans have changed and you need to withdraw your application. But if you are available and still looking for a clerkship, what is there to consider for accepting an interview? (Do you say "can I get back to you about whether I want the interview" to any other employer? But I may just be missing something.)


[Omitted]


A clerkship is a job. It's a job where you should be ultra-respectful in applying and interviewing, but it is still a job. You should use your best judgment. Without having any direct experience with this, I think that you would be okay as long as you are tactful and respectful. Start by expressing your gratitude for the interview offer, then explain your situation, and ask if you could let him know by tomorrow. In my dealings with judges, they were all reasonable and good people. They understand that you are shelling out hundreds of dollars to come out just to interview for a position. I don't think you will have an issue, but you should still be prepared to give a yes or no answer if the judge presses you.

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I recently applied by paper to a bunch of judges. One sent me a letter that I would like some help interpreting (in case this is relevant: given the date of the letter, he could not have received my letters of recommendation when he sent it).

The letter says that if I am planning to be in the area in the near future, I should contact the judge's secretary to set up an appointment for me to "come into chambers and speak with [the judge] regarding a 2015-16 clerkship."

Is this an invitation for an interview or something less formal? Obviously if I had plans to be in the area this would be a non-issue, but I live well over 1000 miles from this city, and I'm not entirely sure how to approach it.


Seems like a "soft" interview offer. Given the distance, the judge may not, for whatever reason, want to pressure you into accepting which would force you to buy a plane ticket. Out of curiosity, apprx. when did you apply and when did you hear back?

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I recently applied by paper to a bunch of judges. One sent me a letter that I would like some help interpreting (in case this is relevant: given the date of the letter, he could not have received my letters of recommendation when he sent it).

The letter says that if I am planning to be in the area in the near future, I should contact the judge's secretary to set up an appointment for me to "come into chambers and speak with [the judge] regarding a 2015-16 clerkship."

Is this an invitation for an interview or something less formal? Obviously if I had plans to be in the area this would be a non-issue, but I live well over 1000 miles from this city, and I'm not entirely sure how to approach it.


Seems like a "soft" interview offer. Given the distance, the judge may not, for whatever reason, want to pressure you into accepting which would force you to buy a plane ticket. Out of curiosity, apprx. when did you apply and when did you hear back?


Any idea if it would be better to just pick a day that I'm "planning" to be there, or just to admit that I don't have plans to be there, but say that I'd like to fly in to interview anyway?

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:38 pm

ph14 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What's the deal for dealing with interview etiquette. I mean if a judge calls you for an interview, you do have to decide on the spot whether to accept the interview or not? or can you tell them I'll get back to you tomorrow?

Why wouldn't you accept an interview? If something happened since applying (like you accepted an offer) and you're no longer on the market, you'd apologize for not having withdrawn yet and say you're not available. Or if for some reason your opinion about the judge has changed and you don't want to work for them, just say your plans have changed and you need to withdraw your application. But if you are available and still looking for a clerkship, what is there to consider for accepting an interview? (Do you say "can I get back to you about whether I want the interview" to any other employer? But I may just be missing something.)


[Omitted]


A clerkship is a job. It's a job where you should be ultra-respectful in applying and interviewing, but it is still a job. You should use your best judgment. Without having any direct experience with this, I think that you would be okay as long as you are tactful and respectful. Start by expressing your gratitude for the interview offer, then explain your situation, and ask if you could let him know by tomorrow. In my dealings with judges, they were all reasonable and good people. They understand that you are shelling out hundreds of dollars to come out just to interview for a position. I don't think you will have an issue, but you should still be prepared to give a yes or no answer if the judge presses you.

Yeah, I agree, and I didn't mean my comment in the sense of "you must kowtow to a judge's every whim!!", which may be how it sounded. I guess I just honestly don't understand what you'd have to decide in accepting an interview. I get not knowing whether you want the position and wondering how to handle that issue and how to get more time after an interview/offer; I just don't know why you'd have to think about an interview. Maybe because I assume if you apply, you want to interview, and that you're not going to get any kind of information just in an interview offer to give you serious pause. (This isn't meant to sound snarky, I'm just particularly dumb tonight and I just honestly don't understand.)

Now, if your concern is that going on that interview with that judge may knock out the chance to interview with other judges you'd prefer to work for who haven't moved yet, unfortunately that's the nature of clerkship hiring. I don't think there's much you can do in that situation. Applicants are at the mercy of judges' schedules and I think it's the very very rare candidate who can afford to turn down one judge because they're confident another judge is going to hire them. But I was also a marginal candidate, so that probably colors my take on this.

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I recently applied by paper to a bunch of judges. One sent me a letter that I would like some help interpreting (in case this is relevant: given the date of the letter, he could not have received my letters of recommendation when he sent it).

The letter says that if I am planning to be in the area in the near future, I should contact the judge's secretary to set up an appointment for me to "come into chambers and speak with [the judge] regarding a 2015-16 clerkship."

Is this an invitation for an interview or something less formal? Obviously if I had plans to be in the area this would be a non-issue, but I live well over 1000 miles from this city, and I'm not entirely sure how to approach it.


Seems like a "soft" interview offer. Given the distance, the judge may not, for whatever reason, want to pressure you into accepting which would force you to buy a plane ticket. Out of curiosity, apprx. when did you apply and when did you hear back?


Any idea if it would be better to just pick a day that I'm "planning" to be there, or just to admit that I don't have plans to be there, but say that I'd like to fly in to interview anyway?


Pick a day (soon) and tell them, go there and rock that interview ==> Score.

Dont do the latter, it just makes u seem desperate

Edit: Its best if you apply NOW to all local judges within that region, then try to hustle more interviews by calling chambers and saying your interview with judge X and would like to meet judge Y while you are in town on this date. So give yourself sometime before the interview to make this happen.

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I recently applied by paper to a bunch of judges. One sent me a letter that I would like some help interpreting (in case this is relevant: given the date of the letter, he could not have received my letters of recommendation when he sent it).

The letter says that if I am planning to be in the area in the near future, I should contact the judge's secretary to set up an appointment for me to "come into chambers and speak with [the judge] regarding a 2015-16 clerkship."

Is this an invitation for an interview or something less formal? Obviously if I had plans to be in the area this would be a non-issue, but I live well over 1000 miles from this city, and I'm not entirely sure how to approach it.


Seems like a "soft" interview offer. Given the distance, the judge may not, for whatever reason, want to pressure you into accepting which would force you to buy a plane ticket. Out of curiosity, apprx. when did you apply and when did you hear back?


Any idea if it would be better to just pick a day that I'm "planning" to be there, or just to admit that I don't have plans to be there, but say that I'd like to fly in to interview anyway?


Pick a day (soon) and tell them, go there and rock that interview ==> Score.

Dont do the latter, it just makes u seem desperate

Edit: Its best if you apply NOW to all local judges within that region, then try to hustle more interviews by calling chambers and saying your interview with judge X and would like to meet judge Y while you are in town on this date. So give yourself sometime before the interview to make this happen.


And if the judge happens to ask me what I'm doing there?

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:Edit: Its best if you apply NOW to all local judges within that region, then try to hustle more interviews by calling chambers and saying your interview with judge X and would like to meet judge Y while you are in town on this date. So give yourself sometime before the interview to make this happen.


You can do this?? Had no freaking clue. So what you're saying is that, if you're interviewing for just one judge, you can call up other judges in the area that you've applied to but haven't gotten interviews with yet?

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Re: 2015-2016 Clerkship Application Thread

Postby ph14 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Edit: Its best if you apply NOW to all local judges within that region, then try to hustle more interviews by calling chambers and saying your interview with judge X and would like to meet judge Y while you are in town on this date. So give yourself sometime before the interview to make this happen.


You can do this?? Had no freaking clue. So what you're saying is that, if you're interviewing for just one judge, you can call up other judges in the area that you've applied to but haven't gotten interviews with yet?


Yeah. I got one interview this way. I would think that your chances aren't as good as a judge/the judge's clerks picking you specifically to interview, but it's worth a shot.




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