Chances

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Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:58 pm

I'm totally ignorant to the clerkship process besides using OSCAR. I just want to get some feedback as to whether I should even apply for any Art. III or magistrate term clerkships.

T2 top 3-5%
law review
EIC secondary journal

interned for a Art. III or State Supreme Court
working in summer in a SA gig

Citizen Genet
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Re: Chances

Postby Citizen Genet » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:06 pm

Definitely competitive, but by no means a shoe in. You should apply across the board, but will have the most success with local COAs (major stretch), local D Cts and D Cts you have ties to in some way (reasonable chance), and magistrates across the board (great chance in my opinion).

Find out if any alums from your school have clerked for any AIII D. Ct. judges or COA judges and call them for advice. More than anything, they can tell you what students from your school are facing with regards to applications. And they might be willing to tip chambers off to your application which can be very helpful.

EDIT: I want to make explicit something implied in my post. Your only chance is if there is some judge who feels some connection to you by virtue of your school or background. In a horse race with other applicants in the field, you are going to lose most of the time. But you have the qualifications to do the job and if a judge feels connected to you or your school in some way, that will make the difference.

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Re: Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:34 pm

Thank you.

Question 2: Am I late in this process?

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Re: Chances

Postby Citizen Genet » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thank you.

Question 2: Am I late in this process?


For 2014-2015, yes. You need to submit very quickly for most D.Ct. judges. (I've noticed magistrates tend to hire a little later, but even then, some are going to be moving soon.) The "on-plan" judges are going to start interviewing people in less than 3 weeks. Realistically, clerks are looking over applications right now. Get your stuff together and send it off ASAP. You should also be reaching out to former clerks today or tomorrow with legit questions about the best way to apply to their judges. The sooner the better.

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Re: Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:39 pm

Citizen Genet wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Thank you.

Question 2: Am I late in this process?


For 2014-2015, yes. You need to submit very quickly for most D.Ct. judges. (I've noticed magistrates tend to hire a little later, but even then, some are going to be moving soon.) The "on-plan" judges are going to start interviewing people in less than 3 weeks. Realistically, clerks are looking over applications right now. Get your stuff together and send it off ASAP. You should also be reaching out to former clerks today or tomorrow with legit questions about the best way to apply to their judges. The sooner the better.


Gracias.

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Re: Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:50 pm

Going to ask also.

Emory, top 15%
Secondary Journal, Published
3-4 years legal work experience, interned for state court judge last summer

Worth hitting up OSCAR?

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Re: Chances

Postby ZyzzBrah » Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:34 pm

To OP: I probably wouldn't waste time on a competitive area i.e. DC, NY, etc., but I would throw in some applications, what have you got to lose?


To emory person: yes, are you even questioning that? A lot of people at my school (in the 30-40 range) in that percentile are clerking at the fed. dist. level next year and in a fairly competitive area.

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nevdash
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Re: Chances

Postby nevdash » Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:58 pm

ZyzzBrah wrote:To emory person: yes, are you even questioning that? A lot of people at my school (in the 30-40 range) in that percentile are clerking at the fed. dist. level next year and in a fairly competitive area.

I agree he should apply because he's in the running, but those are definitely borderline stats. Your comment has to be an exaggeration; there's no way "a lot" of people in the top 15% of a T40 school are clerking for district judges in a competitive area, unless you're referring to the technically-correct fact that people who are in the top 5% of your class are also in the top 15%. Even then, that almost certainly precludes the possibility of "a lot" of them clerking in a competitive district.

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Re: Chances

Postby lolwat » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:12 pm

I agree he should apply because he's in the running, but those are definitely borderline stats. Your comment has to be an exaggeration; there's no way "a lot" of people in the top 15% of a T40 school are clerking for district judges in a competitive area, unless you're referring to the technically-correct fact that people who are in the top 5% of your class are also in the top 15%. Even then, that almost certainly precludes the possibility of "a lot" of them clerking in a competitive district.


I agree with this. I think he's in the running but shouldn't expect anything. Top 15% at a non t14 is really not that great and especially not for competitive districts, unless the school itself is in a competitive district and the judges just tend to prefer kids from that school due to whatever reason (e.g. because the judge went to that school).

It's also Emory. Probably able to hit up ND/MD/SD Ga and 11th Cir. but not sure how much traction it has outside of GA/the southeast. IIRC it's one of the more regional national schools, kind of like WUSTL in the midwest. And UGA has a pretty good lock on a lot of GA clerkships which makes it difficult.

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Re: Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:55 pm

I'm sort of fucked since I would be N.D. IN or N.D. IL. All of the N.D. IN judges are not hiring it appears on OSCAR and it looks like all the N.D. IL Judges are alums of NW/UofC/or HS. So I probably don't have a chance with them either unless they just happen to like hiring regional TT kids.

Edit: Hypothetically if I wait a year, work, and then apply? Do judges generally look disfavorably upon this and just like to hire recent grads? (I know some judges mandate they want people with 1-2 years; but my question pertains to whether I would be foreclosed to most D. Ct. clerkships because I had experience.)
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Chances

Postby Citizen Genet » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:All of the N.D. IN judges are not hiring it appears on OSCAR


Don't trust this. If OSCAR doesn't have anything list for a judge (rather than filled), than you should contact chambers to check if the judge has already hired for 2014.

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Re: Chances

Postby lolwat » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:12 pm

Don't trust this. If OSCAR doesn't have anything list for a judge (rather than filled), than you should contact chambers to check if the judge has already hired for 2014.


This. A lot of judges don't bother with OSCAR but accept paper applications.

Edit: Hypothetically if I wait a year, work, and then apply? Do judges generally look disfavorably upon this and just like to hire recent grads? (I know some judges mandate they want people with 1-2 years; but my question pertains to whether I would be foreclosed to most D. Ct. clerkships because I had experience.)


Honestly, no idea. I've had more luck applying as an alum than as a 3L, and I don't think you would necessarily be FORECLOSED from d.ct. judges just because you had experience, but I can't say that with any degree of certainty.

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Re: Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:07 pm

lolwat wrote:
Don't trust this. If OSCAR doesn't have anything list for a judge (rather than filled), than you should contact chambers to check if the judge has already hired for 2014.


This. A lot of judges don't bother with OSCAR but accept paper applications.

Edit: Hypothetically if I wait a year, work, and then apply? Do judges generally look disfavorably upon this and just like to hire recent grads? (I know some judges mandate they want people with 1-2 years; but my question pertains to whether I would be foreclosed to most D. Ct. clerkships because I had experience.)


Honestly, no idea. I've had more luck applying as an alum than as a 3L, and I don't think you would necessarily be FORECLOSED from d.ct. judges just because you had experience, but I can't say that with any degree of certainty.


Thanks. Called all the judges' chambers that hadn't updated their OSCAR listing. The people I spoke to were 0 help. One lady even told me that the Judge had filled all of his clerkships for the remainder of his term...He was not a magistrate, so I doubt he filled his clerkships until he retires. Also, they likely were not even career clerks because I know he hires terms as per Linkedin job descriptions. So IDK wtf she was talking about.

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Re: Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:09 pm

lolwat wrote:
I agree he should apply because he's in the running, but those are definitely borderline stats. Your comment has to be an exaggeration; there's no way "a lot" of people in the top 15% of a T40 school are clerking for district judges in a competitive area, unless you're referring to the technically-correct fact that people who are in the top 5% of your class are also in the top 15%. Even then, that almost certainly precludes the possibility of "a lot" of them clerking in a competitive district.


I agree with this. I think he's in the running but shouldn't expect anything. Top 15% at a non t14 is really not that great and especially not for competitive districts, unless the school itself is in a competitive district and the judges just tend to prefer kids from that school due to whatever reason (e.g. because the judge went to that school).

It's also Emory. Probably able to hit up ND/MD/SD Ga and 11th Cir. but not sure how much traction it has outside of GA/the southeast. IIRC it's one of the more regional national schools, kind of like WUSTL in the midwest. And UGA has a pretty good lock on a lot of GA clerkships which makes it difficult.

This. The guy who acted like you are a shoe-in is delusional. You have a chance, but not a great one. Probably 65/35 against. Lack of LR hurts you. Top 15% rather than Top 10% or Top 5% also hurts you. But it doesn't take much to apply via OSCAR, so if you're interested you may as well. If you would consider magistrates in the 11th circuit or the less desirable districts (MDGa, SDGa, etc.) you will have a better shot. Ask me if you have other questions. Source: Emory student with clerkship

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Re: Chances

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm sort of fucked since I would be N.D. IN or N.D. IL. All of the N.D. IN judges are not hiring it appears on OSCAR and it looks like all the N.D. IL Judges are alums of NW/UofC/or HS. So I probably don't have a chance with them either unless they just happen to like hiring regional TT kids.

Edit: Hypothetically if I wait a year, work, and then apply? Do judges generally look disfavorably upon this and just like to hire recent grads? (I know some judges mandate they want people with 1-2 years; but my question pertains to whether I would be foreclosed to most D. Ct. clerkships because I had experience.)

I don't know why you think you'd be foreclosed to most D. Ct. clerkships because of having experience? Yes, I'm sure there are a few judges who have an active preference for new grads, but there are a lot of judges who prefer applicants with experience (my sense is that this is maybe a more recent trend, but definitely a thing).

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Re: Chances

Postby theaccidentalclerk » Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:09 pm

One lady even told me that the Judge had filled all of his clerkships for the remainder of his term...He was not a magistrate, so I doubt he filled his clerkships until he retires. Also, they likely were not even career clerks because I know he hires terms as per Linkedin job descriptions. So IDK wtf she was talking about.


Was it a chief judge by any chance? A lot of those hire based on their term as chief because they get an extra clerk who goes away the day they aren't chief any more.

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Re: Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:12 pm

Nope. Normal judge. Not sr/mag/chief

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Re: Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:47 pm

Sorry for the hijack, but I'm looking to apply for 2015, after 2-3 years at my V20 firm. Any input on chances would be appreciated.
TTT-top 5%
Law Review, EIC
4 Publications

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Re: Chances

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Sorry for the hijack, but I'm looking to apply for 2015, after 2-3 years at my V20 firm. Any input on chances would be appreciated.
TTT-top 5%
Law Review, EIC
4 Publications

You've got a good shot.




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