Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Seek and share information about clerkship applications, clerkship hiring timelines, and post-clerkship employment opportunities.
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are sharing sensitive information about clerkship applications and clerkship hiring. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned."
Anonymous User
Posts: 339031
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:19 am

Does anyone have info on Judge Carney's hiring preferences? I hear she looks for work experience, but I am curious if she hires outside HYS/CCN and what kind of grades she looks for. I'm top 20% at MVP and current district court clerk.

Anonymous User
Posts: 339031
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:10 pm

Any info on Judge Cabranes’ hiring preferences?

User avatar
nothingtosee

Silver
Posts: 958
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 12:08 am

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby nothingtosee » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone have info on Judge Carney's hiring preferences? I hear she looks for work experience, but I am curious if she hires outside HYS/CCN and what kind of grades she looks for. I'm top 20% at MVP and current district court clerk.



Strong PI preference, also likes academia. Unless you have a prof or two really go pedal to the metal your grades are too low (I think that'd be about bottom threshold coming from hls)

Anonymous User
Posts: 339031
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:31 pm

nothingtosee wrote:Strong PI preference, also likes academia. Unless you have a prof or two really go pedal to the metal your grades are too low (I think that'd be about bottom threshold coming from hls)


What about top 5% from T14, current district court clerk on DC/9.

Anonymous User
Posts: 339031
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:31 pm

I got interview with her with top 5% from lower T-14 and less prestigious district court but also had great softs/ great reccs.

Anonymous User
Posts: 339031
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
nothingtosee wrote:Strong PI preference, also likes academia. Unless you have a prof or two really go pedal to the metal your grades are too low (I think that'd be about bottom threshold coming from hls)


What about top 5% from T14, current district court clerk on DC/9.


What is PI?

Anonymous User
Posts: 339031
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
nothingtosee wrote:Strong PI preference, also likes academia. Unless you have a prof or two really go pedal to the metal your grades are too low (I think that'd be about bottom threshold coming from hls)


What about top 5% from T14, current district court clerk on DC/9.


What is PI?


Bump. What does PI mean? Personal injury? Supposed to be IP?

agnes_bean

New
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:32 pm

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby agnes_bean » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
nothingtosee wrote:Strong PI preference, also likes academia. Unless you have a prof or two really go pedal to the metal your grades are too low (I think that'd be about bottom threshold coming from hls)


What about top 5% from T14, current district court clerk on DC/9.


What is PI?


Bump. What does PI mean? Personal injury? Supposed to be IP?


Public interest.

bhsr1

New
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby bhsr1 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:00 pm

Anyone ever clerked for Judge Newman/heard anything about that experience? Anyone know about his hiring process in general, or for 2019 specifically? Thanks!

Anonymous User
Posts: 339031
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:19 pm

bhsr1 wrote:Anyone ever clerked for Judge Newman/heard anything about that experience? Anyone know about his hiring process in general, or for 2019 specifically? Thanks!


I have heard that he lets his clerks work remotely most of the time.

riverdalechick

New
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby riverdalechick » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:18 am

I just started to apply for COA clerkships, does anyone know which judges from 2d are full for 2020? Since Oscar is so unreliable, figured folks might know here.

Anonymous User
Posts: 339031
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:14 pm

Saw that Lohier is now open on OSCAR for 2021. Any idea how many spots are open?

User avatar
m27

Bronze
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:58 pm

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby m27 » Fri May 10, 2019 2:08 pm

Bumping this thread for 2020 and 2021 hiring. Any activity regarding interviewing, filled spots, etc. that anyone can report?

User avatar
Wild Card

Silver
Posts: 614
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:48 pm

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby Wild Card » Fri May 10, 2019 2:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Also, anyone know how competitive Lynch is?


This is anecdotal, but I'm close to top 20% at HLS and I didn't get an interview.


As someone with a bit of experience: top 20% at HLS will be an uphill climb for CA2 judges (esp. in Manhattan) if you don't have Law Review or some other connections (such as a professor willing to make a phone call).


Too late to be helpful for the person who posted since it looks like Lynch is now full for 2020, but FWIW as a future datapoint: I'm top 10% at HLS, Law Review, applied right away, didn't get an interview. Not sure if it's because he was looking for higher states than I had, because none of my profs had a connection to him, or pure luck/he just didn't like my application for whatever reason, but he's definitely pretty dang competitive. (For comparison, I interviewed with -- and eventually landed a job with one of -- several judges in the non-feeder 2/9/semi-feeder-on-different-circuit range.)


I realize that I'm responding to a post from last year, but I recall Lynch saying that he limits the scope of his search to top 10% at the top 5 law schools, more or less. If I recall correctly, he also has his clerks do the sorting, so I guess in Lynch's case as well as that of most other judges you'll have middlemen outright trashing applications that don't meet some rough cutoff.

Anonymous User
Posts: 339031
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 10, 2019 3:24 pm

Partner went to Y/S, interviewed with Katzmann. Needless to say, sterling credentials. S/he didn't get it, ultimately accepted another CA2 position, but only got a couple interviews total in 2d Cir. and one CA2 offer total, despite applying to every single Manhattan COA judge.

Point being, people with literally perfect resumes strike out. These jobs are insanely desirable. There's no "safe" judge. Which is why calls from recommenders are so important. (The flip side is that if you have a good-not-great resume but professors willing to go to bat for you, i.e. speaking to the judge on your behalf, you can get interviews/clerkships that people on TLS will say you had no business getting.)

Anonymous User
Posts: 339031
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 10, 2019 3:35 pm

Wild Card wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Also, anyone know how competitive Lynch is?


This is anecdotal, but I'm close to top 20% at HLS and I didn't get an interview.


As someone with a bit of experience: top 20% at HLS will be an uphill climb for CA2 judges (esp. in Manhattan) if you don't have Law Review or some other connections (such as a professor willing to make a phone call).


Too late to be helpful for the person who posted since it looks like Lynch is now full for 2020, but FWIW as a future datapoint: I'm top 10% at HLS, Law Review, applied right away, didn't get an interview. Not sure if it's because he was looking for higher states than I had, because none of my profs had a connection to him, or pure luck/he just didn't like my application for whatever reason, but he's definitely pretty dang competitive. (For comparison, I interviewed with -- and eventually landed a job with one of -- several judges in the non-feeder 2/9/semi-feeder-on-different-circuit range.)


I realize that I'm responding to a post from last year, but I recall Lynch saying that he limits the scope of his search to top 10% at the top 5 law schools, more or less. If I recall correctly, he also has his clerks do the sorting, so I guess in Lynch's case as well as that of most other judges you'll have middlemen outright trashing applications that don't meet some rough cutoff.


Lynch hires at least one Columbia clerk a year. Unsure if they're former students of his, or just people he's drawn to because of his Columbia collection. I know of two from CLS going to him in 2020

Anonymous User
Posts: 339031
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 10, 2019 3:46 pm

Speaking from experience on/with CA2, based on the location and the branding, the number of applications received is *so* large that outside HYS, even top grades at top schools would often not be enough to make it onto the judge's radar. You have to stand out somehow: nearly perfect grades *in tough subjects* (as opposed to seminars on "soft" topics like "law-and-____"); a legit connection between a professor and the judge; a publication (not just a student note, an actual article or peer-reviewed piece); a connection in chambers (to current clerks). It's almost always the case that the judge's clerks sort through the applications on the first cut, so the judge sees almost none of them firsthand.

My judge had not only grade cut-offs, but also looked at only certain schools and at certain types of students (Law Review, grades in specific courses). Outside that, you needed a connection to get noticed in the pile.

Anonymous User
Posts: 339031
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby Anonymous User » Sat May 11, 2019 9:39 am

bumping to see if anyone knows anything else about Judge Newman.

Anonymous User
Posts: 339031
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby Anonymous User » Sat May 11, 2019 6:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Speaking from experience on/with CA2, based on the location and the branding, the number of applications received is *so* large that outside HYS, even top grades at top schools would often not be enough to make it onto the judge's radar. You have to stand out somehow: nearly perfect grades *in tough subjects* (as opposed to seminars on "soft" topics like "law-and-____"); a legit connection between a professor and the judge; a publication (not just a student note, an actual article or peer-reviewed piece); a connection in chambers (to current clerks). It's almost always the case that the judge's clerks sort through the applications on the first cut, so the judge sees almost none of them firsthand.

My judge had not only grade cut-offs, but also looked at only certain schools and at certain types of students (Law Review, grades in specific courses). Outside that, you needed a connection to get noticed in the pile.


This is so true. I was told by my school’s faculty clerkship director that I was an “ideal” candidate for Judge Livingston a few cycles ago and two nationally-known professors called her on my behalf. Despite that concerted school effort, nothing. Once I started looking outside of CA2 I had much better luck, even in competitive cities and without any active support from professors. It seems almost impossible to stand out from the pack with the Manhattan judges unless you’re tip-top at YHS, and if that’s you, you’re probably leaning toward the DC Circuit anyway.

Anonymous User
Posts: 339031
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 12, 2019 1:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Speaking from experience on/with CA2, based on the location and the branding, the number of applications received is *so* large that outside HYS, even top grades at top schools would often not be enough to make it onto the judge's radar. You have to stand out somehow: nearly perfect grades *in tough subjects* (as opposed to seminars on "soft" topics like "law-and-____"); a legit connection between a professor and the judge; a publication (not just a student note, an actual article or peer-reviewed piece); a connection in chambers (to current clerks). It's almost always the case that the judge's clerks sort through the applications on the first cut, so the judge sees almost none of them firsthand.

My judge had not only grade cut-offs, but also looked at only certain schools and at certain types of students (Law Review, grades in specific courses). Outside that, you needed a connection to get noticed in the pile.


This is so true. I was told by my school’s faculty clerkship director that I was an “ideal” candidate for Judge Livingston a few cycles ago and two nationally-known professors called her on my behalf. Despite that concerted school effort, nothing. Once I started looking outside of CA2 I had much better luck, even in competitive cities and without any active support from professors. It seems almost impossible to stand out from the pack with the Manhattan judges unless you’re tip-top at YHS, and if that’s you, you’re probably leaning toward the DC Circuit anyway.


Well, Livingston in particular is probably one of the 2-3 most difficult/prestigious judges to land a clerkship with on CA2 because she's a feeder with personal connections to people like the current Dean of HLS (they're former colleagues). So she in particular has SCOTUS-level clerks from YHS on a regular basis.

User avatar
Wild Card

Silver
Posts: 614
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:48 pm

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby Wild Card » Sun May 12, 2019 1:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
This is so true. I was told by my school’s faculty clerkship director that I was an “ideal” candidate for Judge Livingston a few cycles ago and two nationally-known professors called her on my behalf. Despite that concerted school effort, nothing. Once I started looking outside of CA2 I had much better luck, even in competitive cities and without any active support from professors. It seems almost impossible to stand out from the pack with the Manhattan judges unless you’re tip-top at YHS, and if that’s you, you’re probably leaning toward the DC Circuit anyway.


Well, Livingston in particular is probably one of the 2-3 most difficult/prestigious judges to land a clerkship with on CA2 because she's a feeder with personal connections to people like the current Dean of HLS (they're former colleagues). So she in particular has SCOTUS-level clerks from YHS on a regular basis.


Anon who got his/her hopes up probably went to Columbia, where Livingston adjuncts for $$$$$ every year. One would hope that she hires at least one CLS alum per year. I say this as a grad of NYU, which shells out $300,000+ of tuition bucks per judge to a huge bench of adjuncting federal judges.

Anonymous User
Posts: 339031
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 12, 2019 1:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Well, Livingston in particular is probably one of the 2-3 most difficult/prestigious judges to land a clerkship with on CA2 because she's a feeder with personal connections to people like the current Dean of HLS (they're former colleagues). So she in particular has SCOTUS-level clerks from YHS on a regular basis.


As a former CA2 clerk for one of the judges who has fed to the Court, I will second this. CA2 hiring patterns depend a lot on the judge, in part based on the Manhattan/non-Manhattan divide, in part the left/right divide, and in part on age. In general, I'd say the closer to prime age/seniority and in Manhattan, the more likely to be hiring "best in show" clerks (e.g., Katzmann, Livingston, Lynch, Lohier). None of those four is overly political in their hiring - they prioritize fanciness over all else. Outside of New Haven that'd also be Calabresi and Cabranes, to a lesser degree (these days). But CA2 is also packed with senior judges who are great to clerk for and I think sometimes overlooked, like Leval and Sack. And there are others outside of Manhattan who are terrific, like Carney, Droney, Hall, Walker, and Wesley. And then there are the reliable liberals who want to see reliably liberal credentials (Chin and Pooler), and the same for Raggi on the right.

To me, if you are less than near the top of your class at a top 5 school, and you don't care about being in Manhattan, I'd focus your and your recommenders' energy on the non-Katzmann/Livingston judges. And if you have demonstrable ideological credentials, push for the aforementioned more ideological judges. For the most part, the people who have a shot with Katzmann/Livingston et al. should be getting signals from their school that they are among the top of their class to have a realistic shot, and will have recommenders who are well positioned to advocate for them in those chambers.

Anonymous User
Posts: 339031
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 12, 2019 2:27 pm

Wild Card wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
This is so true. I was told by my school’s faculty clerkship director that I was an “ideal” candidate for Judge Livingston a few cycles ago and two nationally-known professors called her on my behalf. Despite that concerted school effort, nothing. Once I started looking outside of CA2 I had much better luck, even in competitive cities and without any active support from professors. It seems almost impossible to stand out from the pack with the Manhattan judges unless you’re tip-top at YHS, and if that’s you, you’re probably leaning toward the DC Circuit anyway.


Well, Livingston in particular is probably one of the 2-3 most difficult/prestigious judges to land a clerkship with on CA2 because she's a feeder with personal connections to people like the current Dean of HLS (they're former colleagues). So she in particular has SCOTUS-level clerks from YHS on a regular basis.


Anon who got his/her hopes up probably went to Columbia, where Livingston adjuncts for $$$$$ every year. One would hope that she hires at least one CLS alum per year. I say this as a grad of NYU, which shells out $300,000+ of tuition bucks per judge to a huge bench of adjuncting federal judges.


She hires at least one clerk from CLS a year, although my impression is they're top grades + law review + recs from the in-the-know profs. Also takes CLS judicial externs. Columbia places quite well across CA2 generally, honestly (except for Katzmann)---be interesting to see if Livingston/Sullivan/Lynch can help out its SCOTUS numbers.

Does NYU actually pay full-time salaries to judges though? Was under the impression that they got the standard adjunct rate.

Anonymous User
Posts: 339031
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 12, 2019 2:55 pm

Wild Card wrote:
Anon who got his/her hopes up probably went to Columbia, where Livingston adjuncts for $$$$$ every year. One would hope that she hires at least one CLS alum per year. I say this as a grad of NYU, which shells out $300,000+ of tuition bucks per judge to a huge bench of adjuncting federal judges.


Ya, this seems incredibly high. If I remember correctly I've seen disclosures for other federal judges adjuncting, and it was more in the $5,000-$25,000 range even at top schools. I suppose anything is possible with NYU, which has lots of money to splash around o faculty, but I'm shocked if it is anywhere near that. You'd think ever judge on the eastern seaboard would be angling for a job.

User avatar
Wild Card

Silver
Posts: 614
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:48 pm

Re: Let's talk 2nd Circuit!

Postby Wild Card » Sun May 12, 2019 4:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wild Card wrote:
Anon who got his/her hopes up probably went to Columbia, where Livingston adjuncts for $$$$$ every year. One would hope that she hires at least one CLS alum per year. I say this as a grad of NYU, which shells out $300,000+ of tuition bucks per judge to a huge bench of adjuncting federal judges.


Ya, this seems incredibly high. If I remember correctly I've seen disclosures for other federal judges adjuncting, and it was more in the $5,000-$25,000 range even at top schools. I suppose anything is possible with NYU, which has lots of money to splash around o faculty, but I'm shocked if it is anywhere near that. You'd think ever judge on the eastern seaboard would be angling for a job.


https://www.law.com/nationallawjournal/ ... 0412160913

I misspoke: it's probably only Edwards and GInsburg (D.C. Cir.) who make that much (i.e., $200K), and they used to or currently teach 1 full-credit seminar per semester. Katzmann and Lohier also teach at NYU, but they teach half-credit seminars only once a year, so they likely make a lot less than $200K.



Return to “Judicial Clerkships?

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.