Best and worst judges to clerk for

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:32 am

lavarman84 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I’ve heard from many people that Wardlaw is extremely unpleasant.


I've heard this as well. There is a prevalent rumor in LA that Clinton appointed her to the 9th Circuit because she was a disaster of a district court judge and she would do less damage as an appellate judge.

I've heard mixed things on M. Smith - some people think he's kind of a prick, but some people really like him, and his clerks do seem to work relatively humane hours. You have to work in El Segundo, though.


Well, they took a loss there because she was replaced by Percy Anderson.


Would seem like a strange strategy too - even if there is an idea that the panel can moderate decisions and delay isn’t as much of an issue. When I was at a District court, a fellow judge on that court was notoriously late, overdue, etc. I’d presume one of the most prolificly behind in the country at the time. But for various reasons that Judge was strong candidate for a circuit vacancy during that time. Eventually it was shot down, I’d hope, because of that realization. Idk though.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby lavarman84 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:
lavarman84 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I’ve heard from many people that Wardlaw is extremely unpleasant.


I've heard this as well. There is a prevalent rumor in LA that Clinton appointed her to the 9th Circuit because she was a disaster of a district court judge and she would do less damage as an appellate judge.

I've heard mixed things on M. Smith - some people think he's kind of a prick, but some people really like him, and his clerks do seem to work relatively humane hours. You have to work in El Segundo, though.


Well, they took a loss there because she was replaced by Percy Anderson.


Would seem like a strange strategy too - even if there is an idea that the panel can moderate decisions and delay isn’t as much of an issue. When I was at a District court, a fellow judge on that court was notoriously late, overdue, etc. I’d presume one of the most prolificly behind in the country at the time. But for various reasons that Judge was strong candidate for a circuit vacancy during that time. Eventually it was shot down because, I’d hope, because of that realization. Idk though.


That's the unfortunate reality of it being a political process. Sometimes, you end up with people who deserve it and earned it. Sometimes, you end up with people who are just connected.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Have heard this too about Fletcher and Paez. Other 9th circuit gossip/innuendo:

--My friend who clerked for Bea said that he is demanding and formal, but generally a good boss and mentor.
--I have heard from multiple people that Thomas is an amazing, wonderful boss and have never heard any of his clerks say a negative thing about him.
--Bybee is supposed to be great to clerk for as well.
--Ikuta is supposedly very demanding hours-wise, but her clerks like her a lot.
--I have heard from multiple people that Berzon is incredibly difficult and that her clerks are extremely unhappy/overworked.
--Callahan is apparently pretty formal and strict on face time. I understand that she has an older career clerk who is in charge of the administrative side and have heard that this person is supposed to be pretty difficult to work with.


Adding Murguia; extremely long and/or strange hours (when I was clerking she came in at like 2-3pm and stayed until 10-11pm and clerks must be there as well (meetings happen during that time). I have not heard former clerks badmouth her or the experience but have yet to hear a glowing account either, which usually signals *something*. Was also told that she is not the kind of "make sure her clerks get a better job than they could have before" but that she will sign clerk-drafted LOR letters, including to scotus. Just some tidbits.


Oh, and don't clerk for Reinhardt. Makes demeaning comments about his female clerks (and women generally); doesn't use a computer (so his clerks have to type EVERYTHING for him, including his personal emails); at least historically has worked his clerks hard.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:33 am

So any thoughts on those SDNY judges? (Ramos, Oetken, Carter, Roman)

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:So any thoughts on those SDNY judges? (Ramos, Oetken, Carter, Roman)


Roman sits in White Plains, so I have no sense of how working for him is.
I've heard very good things about the other three; my interactions with them have all been very positive. As far as hiring goes, Oetken is super competitive, and is attracting SCOTUS-level clerks. Carter, given his background, probably likes public interest-oriented people. Ramos seems like a great guy, and a lot of fun to work for.
I'd certainly not hesitate to apply to any of the three.

ETA: Of the Obama appointees, there really aren't any I'd say to definitely avoid.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So any thoughts on those SDNY judges? (Ramos, Oetken, Carter, Roman)


Roman sits in White Plains, so I have no sense of how working for him is.
I've heard very good things about the other three; my interactions with them have all been very positive. As far as hiring goes, Oetken is super competitive, and is attracting SCOTUS-level clerks. Carter, given his background, probably likes public interest-oriented people. Ramos seems like a great guy, and a lot of fun to work for.
I'd certainly not hesitate to apply to any of the three.

ETA: Of the Obama appointees, there really aren't any I'd say to definitely avoid.

Roman seems very chill, good hours.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So any thoughts on those SDNY judges? (Ramos, Oetken, Carter, Roman)


Roman sits in White Plains, so I have no sense of how working for him is.
I've heard very good things about the other three; my interactions with them have all been very positive. As far as hiring goes, Oetken is super competitive, and is attracting SCOTUS-level clerks. Carter, given his background, probably likes public interest-oriented people. Ramos seems like a great guy, and a lot of fun to work for.
I'd certainly not hesitate to apply to any of the three.

ETA: Of the Obama appointees, there really aren't any I'd say to definitely avoid.


Do you mean all SDNY Obama appointees? Because I reiterate my earlier list, and Woods in particular.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So any thoughts on those SDNY judges? (Ramos, Oetken, Carter, Roman)


Roman sits in White Plains, so I have no sense of how working for him is.
I've heard very good things about the other three; my interactions with them have all been very positive. As far as hiring goes, Oetken is super competitive, and is attracting SCOTUS-level clerks. Carter, given his background, probably likes public interest-oriented people. Ramos seems like a great guy, and a lot of fun to work for.
I'd certainly not hesitate to apply to any of the three.

ETA: Of the Obama appointees, there really aren't any I'd say to definitely avoid.


Do you mean all SDNY Obama appointees? Because I reiterate my earlier list, and Woods in particular.


That is what I meant. But I don't disagree that you'll work hard with many of those judges you mentioned, but that's true of many (most?) SDNY judges. Clerks I knew for Forrest, Nathan, and Caproni certainly worked hard, but I don't think they begrudged it (usually). But if Woods is particularly demanding, that might be a reason to avoid.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:42 pm

Any thoughts on Third Circuit judges?


Now that Sloviter's on inactive status, there really isn't anybody I'd put in the "avoid" column. Krause works her clerks very, very hard, but also seems like a lovely person. Shwartz also seemed to work very hard and expected the same of her clerks; also a lovely person. Heard only good things about Hardiman, Jordan, and Ambro. Chagares seems like a blast to be around, as does Greenaway. McKee seemed plenty intense but his clerks were quite happy.

We didn't get to know Vanaskie/Fuentes and their clerks all that well. Fuentes seemed very quiet and his clerks tended to be antisocial when they were in Philly. That might've just been the particular group. I know Fuentes has a reputation as a lovely guy in Newark.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:46 pm

From interactions with Fuentas and his clerks, he seems like an absolutely fantastic judge to work for. He is also someone who will scoop up one of the top students at his own law school alma every few years, Buffalo. I may be biased, but I think having a chambers that isn't just a Harvard/Yale club is a reflection both on how open-minded the judge is, and of the clerks themselves.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:From interactions with Fuentas and his clerks, he seems like an absolutely fantastic judge to work for. He is also someone who will scoop up one of the top students at his own law school alma every few years, Buffalo. I may be biased, but I think having a chambers that isn't just a Harvard/Yale club is a reflection both on how open-minded the judge is, and of the clerks themselves.


Oh, certainly. Lest I gave the wrong impression, there ain't nothing wrong with "quiet," and my impression of his crew was based entirely off of one half-sitting. I don't know whether they even stayed in town for it. He's got a great reputation, but isn't the kind of outsized personality you expect from a federal judge.

And I heard the same thing you did about Buffalo. He also hires a lot from NYU and (to a lesser degree) Columbia.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So any thoughts on those SDNY judges? (Ramos, Oetken, Carter, Roman)


Roman sits in White Plains, so I have no sense of how working for him is.
I've heard very good things about the other three; my interactions with them have all been very positive. As far as hiring goes, Oetken is super competitive, and is attracting SCOTUS-level clerks. Carter, given his background, probably likes public interest-oriented people. Ramos seems like a great guy, and a lot of fun to work for.
I'd certainly not hesitate to apply to any of the three.

ETA: Of the Obama appointees, there really aren't any I'd say to definitely avoid.


Do you mean all SDNY Obama appointees? Because I reiterate my earlier list, and Woods in particular.


That is what I meant. But I don't disagree that you'll work hard with many of those judges you mentioned, but that's true of many (most?) SDNY judges. Clerks I knew for Forrest, Nathan, and Caproni certainly worked hard, but I don't think they begrudged it (usually). But if Woods is particularly demanding, that might be a reason to avoid.


For what it's worth, professors/former clerks at my CCN have had nothing but positive things to say about Woods and he is frequently mentioned as a contender to be elevated to the second circuit whenever the next Democrat is elected.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone have any information about DDC or CADC judges?


Which CADC judges would you like to know about?

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone have any information about DDC or CADC judges?


Which CADC judges would you like to know about?


Any of them except for Edwards.
I know that 's not super helpful in narrowing things down. I just don't want to end up working for a sexual harasser or habitual screamer.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:25 pm

Anyone know anything about Friedland on CA9?

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:50 pm

Anyone know anything about judges on the Sixth Circuit?

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone have the inside scoop on 11th Circuit judges?


And/or any info on the district court judges there?


Any information on these judges?
- Marcus
- Martin
- Julie Carnes
- Jill Pryor
- Newsom

Or these District Court judges in N.D. of Alabama (really any except the senior judges)?
- Bowdre
- Coogler
- Proctor
- Hopkins
- Kallon
- Haikala

From the area, so would like to target these judges (in addition to others, but mostly curious about these ones). Marcus only because he is in Miami.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone know anything about judges on the Sixth Circuit?


Literally scroll up. Almost all of them have something recent in here.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Have heard rumors that judge clay in the sixth circuit is incredibly difficult to work for but can't confirm. Anyone have any insight?


My judge straight up told me not to apply with Clay because of what he had heard about it. He "didn't want that for me." So yeah, I'd say that there is truth to the rumors.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby 20181989 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone know anything about Friedland on CA9?


Only that she's brilliant. Fmr CA9 clerk here; did not clerk for Friedland but she's one of the best young lefties on the Circuit. She and her clerks both work hard. I knew one person who clerked for her. That person had impeccable credentials (think HYS, law review, name-brand D. Ct. clerkship prior). Friedland's terrific.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:34 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Have heard rumors that judge clay in the sixth circuit is incredibly difficult to work for but can't confirm. Anyone have any insight?


My judge straight up told me not to apply with Clay because of what he had heard about it. He "didn't want that for me." So yeah, I'd say that there is truth to the rumors.


Clay has a reputation as a really good and thoughtful judge, which is more than you can say about a lot of judges on the Sixth. He works very hard and expects his clerks to too. Any judge worth his/her salt will be a difficult to work with at times because they'll be more engaged with the cases and will have higher expectations from their clerks. But I think that's a good thing- you'll learn a lot more than if you clerk for a judge that isn't that smart or doesn't work that hard.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:20 am

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone know anything about Friedland on CA9?


(Clerked on CA9; know multiple Friedland clerks.)

Well-liked by her clerks and well-regarded on the Circuit. Most of her clerks work very long hours.

Has started feeding some clerks to SCOTUS, and I expect this will continue, though she is still definitely an easier clerkship to get than other established feeders (Reinhardt and Fletcher) and emerging feeders (Watford). Note that her chambers is now in San Jose and I think most of the clerks live in San Jose. (I can’t imagine commuting from SF, especially with the hours her clerks work.)

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Have heard rumors that judge clay in the sixth circuit is incredibly difficult to work for but can't confirm. Anyone have any insight?


My judge straight up told me not to apply with Clay because of what he had heard about it. He "didn't want that for me." So yeah, I'd say that there is truth to the rumors.


Clay has a reputation as a really good and thoughtful judge, which is more than you can say about a lot of judges on the Sixth. He works very hard and expects his clerks to too. Any judge worth his/her salt will be a difficult to work with at times because they'll be more engaged with the cases and will have higher expectations from their clerks. But I think that's a good thing- you'll learn a lot more than if you clerk for a judge that isn't that smart or doesn't work that hard.


Maybe true but I never got that impression during oral arguments. FWIW, he apparently fired two clerks a month or so into the clerkship not that long ago. If you have other options, I’d 100% take them. As for not working hard, you can still learn if you’re forced to do all the work. And you still work with/see how other judges think and the 6th has some intellectual stars, even if you disagree with them politically

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:40 pm

20181989 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone know anything about Friedland on CA9?


Only that she's brilliant. Fmr CA9 clerk here; did not clerk for Friedland but she's one of the best young lefties on the Circuit. She and her clerks both work hard. I knew one person who clerked for her. That person had impeccable credentials (think HYS, law review, name-brand D. Ct. clerkship prior). Friedland's terrific.

Now that Kozinski is gone, Friedland's clerks probably work the most hours in the circuit.



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