Best and worst judges to clerk for

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:40 pm

Check this thread out, as well, which is partially responsive to the thread prompt in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=203282

FWIW, I've heard the same things as the anonymous poster who posted this:

I have heard great things about the quality of life with some of the young GWB appointees, Judges Gorsuch, Kethledge, and Colloton.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:31 pm

Lawquacious wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Sloviter (3rd) and Smith (EDVa) are two that I have consistently heard negative things about.

Positive things: Almost all of the 9th Cir. judges in Southern Cal (must be the weather) have reputations as thoughtful judges, though some have a reputation for having huge expectations. Kozinski is rumored to openly pit clerks against each other in an effort to get more out of them, but my guess is if you have a shot at Kozinski, you don't really care about that kind of work environment and view the opportunity as worth the demands.


Kozinski work hours: Weekdays 9:30 am - 1:30 am, with a 2 hour break for dinner, business formal attire; Weekends 10-12 am - 1:30 am. No holidays, you work 365 days a year, including Christmas, New Years, etc. Kozinski's placement power in the SCT is also not as strong as when O'Connor was on the court. If you want a feeder judge there are probably at least a dozen on the same level with a more humane work experience.

A former clerk for a different judge in the 9th once told me that Kozinski says he doesn't interview for one-year clerk terms, he interviews for 365-day clerk terms. My friend then added that to be more honest, Kozinski should say he interviews for 365 days & nights.


Wow.


I think Kozinkski himself states that he offers only two-year clerkships--though to be completed in one year's time.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby JusticeJackson » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:19 am

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Last edited by JusticeJackson on Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:36 am

I heard that, too. In other words, there's far from a guarantee that he'll give you a recommendation for SCOTUS. I'm sure no other feeder judge would ever guarantee a recommendation, either, but considering the work a Kozinski clerk has to put in, it's something to think about.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I heard that, too. In other words, there's far from a guarantee that he'll give you a recommendation for SCOTUS. I'm sure no other feeder judge would ever guarantee a recommendation, either, but considering the work a Kozinski clerk has to put in, it's something to think about.


I can't fathom why someone would work for him rather than someone with similar stats who's a trifle more humane.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I heard that, too. In other words, there's far from a guarantee that he'll give you a recommendation for SCOTUS. I'm sure no other feeder judge would ever guarantee a recommendation, either, but considering the work a Kozinski clerk has to put in, it's something to think about.


I can't fathom why someone would work for him rather than someone with similar stats who's a trifle more humane.


A lot of people who have Kozinski-ballpark application profiles do choose to clerk for other judges who are more humane. The thing is, it's hard to turn down such a prestigious judge if that's your first offer, which it almost always is, given that he generally hires in Fall or early Spring, before other judges.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:04 pm

He does appear to hire right out of the womb.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I heard that, too. In other words, there's far from a guarantee that he'll give you a recommendation for SCOTUS. I'm sure no other feeder judge would ever guarantee a recommendation, either, but considering the work a Kozinski clerk has to put in, it's something to think about.


I can't fathom why someone would work for him rather than someone with similar stats who's a trifle more humane.


A lot of people who have Kozinski-ballpark application profiles do choose to clerk for other judges who are more humane. The thing is, it's hard to turn down such a prestigious judge if that's your first offer, which it almost always is, given that he generally hires in Fall or early Spring, before other judges.


Yeah, I know someone who got an interview with him, accepted it reluctantly, then got an interview with another (lesser but on the rise) feeder judge. He cancelled on Judge K., got the other one, and lived happily ever after.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I heard that, too. In other words, there's far from a guarantee that he'll give you a recommendation for SCOTUS. I'm sure no other feeder judge would ever guarantee a recommendation, either, but considering the work a Kozinski clerk has to put in, it's something to think about.


I can't fathom why someone would work for him rather than someone with similar stats who's a trifle more humane.


A lot of people who have Kozinski-ballpark application profiles do choose to clerk for other judges who are more humane. The thing is, it's hard to turn down such a prestigious judge if that's your first offer, which it almost always is, given that he generally hires in Fall or early Spring, before other judges.


Yeah, I know someone who got an interview with him, accepted it reluctantly, then got an interview with another (lesser but on the rise) feeder judge. He cancelled on Judge K., got the other one, and lived happily ever after.


Yeah, I think that is definitely a good call. He's undoubtedly a very prestigious judge, but for a lot of people, especially those quality candidates, it's just not worth it. Do you mind sharing who the other judge was? Or give a ballpark on what you mean by "lesser but on the rise"?

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:16 am

Very similar situation here. School asked me if I wanted to apply to him, I said no, and then got a gig with a "lesser" COA judge who has a reputation for being wonderful to work for. Now I'm looking forward to my year instead of being scared about it.

I know several Kozinski clerks who love him and had a great time. I am sure it can be a great experience - but I really want to enjoy that clerkship year. (And of course, I have no idea if I ever would have actually gotten an interview in the first place).

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby throwaway1919 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:32 pm


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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:55 pm

Judge White in the Sixth is a "lovely person" from multiple accounts.

Judge McKeague is demanding and formal with his clerks, but goes to bat for them.

Also heard good things about Judge Rogers (more generally) from a few prior clerks.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:09 pm

Have heard rumors that judge clay in the sixth circuit is incredibly difficult to work for but can't confirm. Anyone have any insight?

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:41 pm

I have no more information than you but have heard same. Perhaps from same source

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:52 pm

Holmes on the 10th is known to make clerks work long hours similar to biglaw, though not like Kozinski. He doesn't take on a mentor role. Clerks don't seem satisfied during or after.

Colloton on the 8th is laid-back; clerks are known to travel out of Iowa on weekends.

Jerry Smith on the 5th is reportedly one of the best clerkships out there. Huge mentor; lots of freedom; biz casual; very strong clerkship network.

E. Carnes on the 11th makes his clerks work hard but is dedicated to improving their writing. Not much work on weekends.

Wilkinson is, like Smith, a great clerkship for the same reasons.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:41 pm

Browning in D NM reportedly let's clerks take Sunday afternoon off and that is it.

Smith in ED Va has reputation for being verbally abusive and erratic.

Bybee on 9th is known for being great boss. Very interested in mentoring.

Have heard that Srinivisan works clerks very hard. (Kozinski level time commitment.) No idea about temperment.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Holmes on the 10th is known to make clerks work long hours similar to biglaw, though not like Kozinski. He doesn't take on a mentor role. Clerks don't seem satisfied during or after.

Colloton on the 8th is laid-back; clerks are known to travel out of Iowa on weekends.

Jerry Smith on the 5th is reportedly one of the best clerkships out there. Huge mentor; lots of freedom; biz casual; very strong clerkship network.

E. Carnes on the 11th makes his clerks work hard but is dedicated to improving their writing. Not much work on weekends.

Wilkinson is, like Smith, a great clerkship for the same reasons.


Unless you're a Holmes alum I have to push back. I know some pretty well and while they worked hard they seemed to think he was a good boss and person.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby lavarman84 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:Browning in D NM reportedly let's clerks take Sunday afternoon off and that is it.

Smith in ED Va has reputation for being verbally abusive and erratic.

Bybee on 9th is known for being great boss. Very interested in mentoring.

Have heard that Srinivisan works clerks very hard. (Kozinski level time commitment.) No idea about temperment.


That doesn't surprise me after reading his opinions. They're so unnecessarily long.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:Colloton on the 8th is laid-back; clerks are known to travel out of Iowa on weekends.

One of my friends clerked for Colloton and they said he was decidedly *not* laid-back.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Judge White in the Sixth is a "lovely person" from multiple accounts.

Judge McKeague is demanding and formal with his clerks, but goes to bat for them.

Also heard good things about Judge Rogers (more generally) from a few prior clerks.


Can’t speak to Judge white as a boss but her reputation on the circuit was one of extreme delay (at least when I was there). Could be good or frustrating as a clerk. Seconded on mckeague who seems like quite the curmudgeon. Probably the same on Rogers - though I think he’s probably a rigorous editor. More sixth: gibbons seems like a fun boss but have heard she can be absent from the work these days. Daughtrey seems very involved. Moore too. Donald travels a ton for extrajudicial stuff. Gilman apparently a fun boss even if he’s not as active a Judge. Think everyone knows about kethledge Sutton and thapar.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Judge White in the Sixth is a "lovely person" from multiple accounts.

Judge McKeague is demanding and formal with his clerks, but goes to bat for them.

Also heard good things about Judge Rogers (more generally) from a few prior clerks.


Can’t speak to Judge white as a boss but her reputation on the circuit was one of extreme delay (at least when I was there). Could be good or frustrating as a clerk. Seconded on mckeague who seems like quite the curmudgeon. Probably the same on Rogers - though I think he’s probably a rigorous editor. More sixth: gibbons seems like a fun boss but have heard she can be absent from the work these days. Daughtrey seems very involved. Moore too. Donald travels a ton for extrajudicial stuff. Gilman apparently a fun boss even if he’s not as active a Judge. Think everyone knows about kethledge Sutton and thapar.


Any insight on senior judges in the sixth? Specifically Merritt, Boggs, Siler?

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Any insight on senior judges in the sixth? Specifically Merritt, Boggs, Siler?

Merritt and Siler are both around 82 years old, so they are relatively less active. Merritt is in a far better location (Nashville, TN vs. London, KY), but Siler sits by designation quite a bit (mostly in the 11th, I think, and sometimes as a trial judge). I think you could learn a lot from Siler--he was a US attorney, and a district court judge before joining the court of appeals (plus his father was a judge and congressman). While I'm only familiar with Boggs as an active judge, I think he would be great to clerk for, and probably about as active as an active judge.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:E. Carnes on the 11th makes his clerks work hard but is dedicated to improving their writing. Not much work on weekends.


Interviewed with Carnes, and I can confirm that this is what I was told by his current clerks. I would agree that he is dedicated to improving his clerks' writing--part of my interviewing involved making stylistic edits to a writing sample. I was highly impressed with the care he took to review the writing sample and the suggestions he made. I think he would be demanding but a great person to learn from.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:42 am

Boggs famously uses (or used to use) a test of random knowledge on his clerk applicants. IIRC, he would basically pub-quiz you on random stuff to see how well-read/well-rounded/pop-culture-literate you were.

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Re: Best and worst judges to clerk for

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:55 pm

Any thoughts on 4th Circuit? In particular, Niemeyer, Motz, and Harris?



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