For 2Ls: Better to apply ASAP or wait for more credentials?

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For 2Ls: Better to apply ASAP or wait for more credentials?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:38 am

Subject line pretty much says it all. I'm at a T14 that hasn't had law journal elections yet. Should I send out applications right away, without a fancy e-board title? Or would it be better to wait a month or two and hope to bolster the resume? All thoughts are appreciated!

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: For 2Ls: Better to apply ASAP or wait for more credentials?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:52 am

I don't think it would at all hurt to wait on e-board stuff; I know lots of judges are hiring off-plan, but now still seems early to me, for a 2L. My impression is that the really really selective/elite judges who hire really early may have actually hired for 2014 already, and that applying for others off-plan, you're looking more at March/April.

(But it might make a difference depending on where you're aiming? And if other folks here disagree, I could be wrong - how judges hire, and when, seems to be a moving target.)

letsdoit
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Re: For 2Ls: Better to apply ASAP or wait for more credentials?

Postby letsdoit » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:16 pm

curious how you were able to delineate between on and off plan judges. thanks!

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Re: For 2Ls: Better to apply ASAP or wait for more credentials?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:21 pm

Well, personally, I applied to everyone in my circuit, and my school's CSO would call them all up and ask when they took applications, and compiled the info for us. So you could try your CSO first. But I think you can get some sense through OSCAR - a lot of judges say if they won't look at apps until the plan deadline. And I think if a judge indicates that they'll take paper or email apps, that means they'll hire off-plan.

But this is one of the hardest parts of applying as a 2L. I think you have to just ask around, and hope. Maybe someone here can do a post compiling which judges hire off plan, that people here know of, anyway?

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Re: For 2Ls: Better to apply ASAP or wait for more credentials?

Postby ClerkAdvisor » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:47 pm

Current clerk here (in first of two clerkships).

re: timing:
-I think the best time for 2L's to apply is after you have all your Fall 2L grades in. Once those are in, I would start ending out applications in late February/early March. I would go ahead and send a paper application (cover letter, resume, transcript, writing sample, and reference list - either in body of cover letter or separate sheet of paper) to every judge you are interested in. I think the only judges you should not apply to are those who you affirmatively now are on-plan only. That said, I know of some ostensibly on-plan judges who have interviewed/hired people in the late spring/early summer.

-It's generally not worth the time/effort of calling chambers to find out the best time, preferred method of application, etc.

-A final thought. Just because you've already send a judge an application doesn't mean you can't send them another one. In other words, say you apply to 50 judges in March. If you don't hear anything from them and you know that they haven't hired, you can certainly send them a new set of application materials on-plan.

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Re: For 2Ls: Better to apply ASAP or wait for more credentials?

Postby RodneyRuxin » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:04 pm

ClerkAdvisor wrote:Current clerk here (in first of two clerkships).

re: timing:
-I think the best time for 2L's to apply is after you have all your Fall 2L grades in. Once those are in, I would start ending out applications in late February/early March. I would go ahead and send a paper application (cover letter, resume, transcript, writing sample, and reference list - either in body of cover letter or separate sheet of paper) to every judge you are interested in. I think the only judges you should not apply to are those who you affirmatively now are on-plan only. That said, I know of some ostensibly on-plan judges who have interviewed/hired people in the late spring/early summer.

-It's generally not worth the time/effort of calling chambers to find out the best time, preferred method of application, etc.

-A final thought. Just because you've already send a judge an application doesn't mean you can't send them another one. In other words, say you apply to 50 judges in March. If you don't hear anything from them and you know that they haven't hired, you can certainly send them a new set of application materials on-plan.


His new username makes his answer credited (even though he has typos in his post)

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Re: For 2Ls: Better to apply ASAP or wait for more credentials?

Postby bruinfan10 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:34 pm

RodneyRuxin wrote:
ClerkAdvisor wrote:Current clerk here (in first of two clerkships).

re: timing:
-I think the best time for 2L's to apply is after you have all your Fall 2L grades in. Once those are in, I would start ending out applications in late February/early March. I would go ahead and send a paper application (cover letter, resume, transcript, writing sample, and reference list - either in body of cover letter or separate sheet of paper) to every judge you are interested in. I think the only judges you should not apply to are those who you affirmatively now are on-plan only. That said, I know of some ostensibly on-plan judges who have interviewed/hired people in the late spring/early summer.

-It's generally not worth the time/effort of calling chambers to find out the best time, preferred method of application, etc.

-A final thought. Just because you've already send a judge an application doesn't mean you can't send them another one. In other words, say you apply to 50 judges in March. If you don't hear anything from them and you know that they haven't hired, you can certainly send them a new set of application materials on-plan.


His new username makes his answer credited (even though he has typos in his post)

not sure which way your comment was intended to cut, but a lot of that advice lines up with the t14 clerkship advisers/former SCOTUS clerks I've talked to about application timing...

ClerkAdvisor
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Re: For 2Ls: Better to apply ASAP or wait for more credentials?

Postby ClerkAdvisor » Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:36 pm

RodneyRuxin wrote:
ClerkAdvisor wrote:Current clerk here (in first of two clerkships).

re: timing:
-I think the best time for 2L's to apply is after you have all your Fall 2L grades in. Once those are in, I would start ending out applications in late February/early March. I would go ahead and send a paper application (cover letter, resume, transcript, writing sample, and reference list - either in body of cover letter or separate sheet of paper) to every judge you are interested in. I think the only judges you should not apply to are those who you affirmatively now are on-plan only. That said, I know of some ostensibly on-plan judges who have interviewed/hired people in the late spring/early summer.

-It's generally not worth the time/effort of calling chambers to find out the best time, preferred method of application, etc.

-A final thought. Just because you've already send a judge an application doesn't mean you can't send them another one. In other words, say you apply to 50 judges in March. If you don't hear anything from them and you know that they haven't hired, you can certainly send them a new set of application materials on-plan.


His new username makes his answer credited (even though he has typos in his post)


My apologies for any typos. I stay rather busy and, when I post on the internet, I don't take the time to proofread carefully.

You are more than welcome to doubt my advice. I am only trying to help fill the gap in clerkship knowledge left by GTL's calling it quits and lawclerkaddict's collapse. Those were helpful resources when I was going through the process, and it's a shame that current applicants don't have any equivalent resources.

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Re: For 2Ls: Better to apply ASAP or wait for more credentials?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:27 pm

It's making me nervous hearing that people are applying so early this year. I have no prospects for good LORs, so I very well may be waiting until on-plan as I continue trying to develop some relationships with professors.

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Re: For 2Ls: Better to apply ASAP or wait for more credentials?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:47 pm

I'm wondering how the advice may change for a transfer student with only the fall semester grades in at the new school? Would it be better to apply by March or to wait until summer when spring semester grades have came in or just to wait until the on-plan mailing?

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Re: For 2Ls: Better to apply ASAP or wait for more credentials?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm wondering how the advice may change for a transfer student with only the fall semester grades in at the new school? Would it be better to apply by March or to wait until summer when spring semester grades have came in or just to wait until the on-plan mailing?


While I do not know the ideal time to send in apps as a transfer, I can definitely say that you should start applying before the plan. There will be enough judges who wait until the on plan dates to post anything that you will not risk losing out on all judges by applying too early; however, there will be judges who fill up before September and if you had a shot at them they are missed opportunities. Do some research and ask your school's clerkship advisors as to when judges you are considering applying to traditionally hire and send out apps or wait on applying accordingly.

letsdoit
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Re: For 2Ls: Better to apply ASAP or wait for more credentials?

Postby letsdoit » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:45 pm

any rough idea what percentage of judges will be interviewing 2Ls before the official "on plan" process begins? part of me just wants to wait until August, but I don't want to miss out.

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Re: For 2Ls: Better to apply ASAP or wait for more credentials?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:25 pm

letsdoit wrote:any rough idea what percentage of judges will be interviewing 2Ls before the official "on plan" process begins? part of me just wants to wait until August, but I don't want to miss out.


Any attempt at a percentage would be nearly a complete guess. It is a non-trivial amount that appears to be growing. If I had to guess, I'd wager based on last year that at least a (slight?) majority (of all AIII judges both circuit and district) still hire on plan. Additionally, Circuit judges tend to be the ones going off plan and hiring earlier and earlier.

I caveat all of the above with the statement that it is guesswork from experiencing a single round of applications and hiring. In the end, if you wait until August, you will not be alone in your decision and it may work out in the end for you; however, you will have lower chances than if you applied earlier, and you may regret it if a clerkship is a priority goal for you.

-3L who applied on plan and struck out even with a couple of interviews.




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